Re-Visiting weaker YES albums

[YESHEAD777]

So the main reason for this thread is the fact that there are only 2 other YES related threads on the main page, and we must keep up our quota here at PE. But seriously, I decided to visit some YES music recently that is considered weaker or maybe just underappreciated. Just listened to Fly from Here for the first time in awhile, and I have to say I really enjoyed the second half, esp. the last 3 songs. I always did like Into the Storm esp. I just still don't care for BD's vocals at all on the FFH suite. And Howe's work on the whole album is really stellar. I listened to the first two-S/T and TAAW recently also, which I've always loved. Some of Chris and Bill's best work! listening to KTA2 now-Mind Drive is such an awesome epic, and belongs with the other top 5 epics with CTTE,Awaken,GOD,TRSOG, and Ritual. I just hate the way they chopped it up live though when they finally played it. Next its gonna be OYE.

[Jubal]

IF you consider The Ladder to be a weak Yes album (many here do, I don't), I would recommend that one as well.

[YESHEAD777]

IF you consider The Ladder to be a weak Yes album (many here do, I don't), I would recommend that one as well.

I guess I should qualify the "weaker" description. Of course, with my namesake, even a weak YES album is better than 95% of what else is out there. Even Heaven and Earth. As for The Ladder, I've always liked about 80% of it alot.

[Splicer]

I wish Igor had continued with the band. I think he would have brought some decent compositional chops to Yes and his keyboard playing was top notch.

[BobM]

You want to discuss most everything since Going For The One? or since Relayer?

[DoubleDrummer]

I guess I should qualify the "weaker" description. Of course, with my namesake, even a weak YES album is better than 95% of what else is out there. Even Heaven and Earth.
As for The Ladder, I've always liked about 80% of it alot.


I wish Igor had continued with the band. I think he would have brought some decent compositional chops to Yes and his keyboard playing was top notch.
Yes.................he was very talented.

I've been such a fan over the years that I don't believe any of their provisions qualify as weaker in relation to the entire spectrum of music produced in their era.
There are some weaker albums from YES when compared to other YES albums, but I like those too, with a few songs as exceptions.

I listen to MAGNIFICATION, OPEN YOUR EYES (mostly Sherwood), and THE LADDER fairly often and enjoy those quite a bit.
I would rate the very first eponymous album weaker than the three above.
There are portions of TORMATO, DRAMA and UNION that are weaker, IMO.
And I really don't know much about FLY FROM HERE and HEAVEN & EARTH.

Everything else is magical in my book................with the (amazing) top period running from 1971 until 1977:
THE YES ALBUM -- FRAGILE -- CLOSE TO THE EDGE -- TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS -- RELAYER -- GOING FOR THE ONE

I also personally enjoyed the Trevor Rabin period and did not agree with the "sellout" critics during his time:
90125 -- BIG GENERATOR -- TALK

[BravadoNJ]

i don't think that Magnification & Fly From Here are weak albums. i still listen to them often.

when The Ladder & Open Your Eyes came out i liked them, but recent listens have left a sour note- seems more humdrum.

i've listened (by force) to Heaven & Earth only 3 times since it got it, to me it's like a stranger. JD's writing doesn't fit in with Yes.

i'll get flack for this but i think Going For The One is a weak album. sure Awaken is brilliant, but the rest is so so.

if there's a new album with JD & BS writing- i'm getting out of town!

[JAMOOL]

I wrote about the two most recent ones right here (https://critterjams.wordpress.com/2016/04/04/yes-fly-from-here-2011-heaven-and-earth-2014/) - agreed that FFH is quite good. It really feels like a Yes album which to me puts it above most of their other GFTO work.

[JAMOOL]

Also - I think their latter-day prog stuff, like KTA, The Ladder, Magnification - all decent, but IMO by that point all the imitators were lapping them on a consistent basis. Sometimes they can be great - I love parts of "That, That Is", and "The Ladder" is a terrific song, maybe one of the best they ever did - but I just never want to return to those albums.

[2steves]

IF you consider The Ladder to be a weak Yes album (many here do, I don't), I would recommend that one as well.

Been listening to it but can't stand most of the album but I have an EP of it---
Homeworld
It will be a good day
New language
Nine voices

Howe is amazing on these tracks so they interest me---although it's not something I would listen to all the time
The keyboardist is good too bad he had a drinking problem---but may have been too young to handle this gig

[Kcrimso]

I wish Igor had continued with the band. I think he would have brought some decent compositional chops to Yes and his keyboard playing was top notch.

What Igor has composed that makes you think that? Honest question :)

[bill g]

Funny, the other day I pulled out Keys vol 2, studio disc, as I've always loved 'Mind Drive', and notice that 'Mind Drive' doesn't really do it for me anymore, but surprisingly 'Footprints', and even much more so, 'Bring Me To The Power' I thought were great. I like parts of 'Mind Drive', but don't really like it when Jon shouts and yells. A few of the melodic sections I enjoyed, and there is a great moment, where there is a variation of what could be constituted as the 'chorus', using cool minor chords. But 'Bring Me To The Power', especially the first half, is downright inspired! I was surprised how good it was, or at least, how much I enjoyed it.

[yamishogun]

Been listening to it but can't stand most of the album but I have an EP of it---

Homeworld
It will be a good day
New language
Nine voices


I never made an EP for this album, but those are the songs I listen to - about 30 minutes. I'll listen to others including "Finally" and "The Messenger" but usually just the four songs.

As for FFH, I like the core of the suite a lot but prefer the shorter two track version that was recorded at the time of Drama . 100% "Bumpy Ride" free!
I like "Life on a Film Set" but had listened to the Buggles version enough the weeks before FFH so usually skip that. Then on to the last three songs. So about a 35 minute EP.

That is the length of Drama and almost the length of Tormato and Going For the One



With Close to the Edge, I took out "I Get Up, I Get Down", "The Preacher, The Teacher".....

[Mikhael]

I know I'm definitely in the minority here, but I thought "Talk" was the strongest of the Rabin years. About 75% of it was really good to me. I rate it above most of what came after.

"The Ladder" wasn't bad, either. "KTA" was rambling and disjointed in the writing department, and "Magnification" was bland. Even Steve Howe was less than thrilled with that one, as "Little Hitler" wouldn't let anyone else add input to his material by then. Since then, meh.

[Facelift]

I know I'm definitely in the minority here, but I thought "Talk" was the strongest of the Rabin years. About 75% of it was really good to me. I rate it above most of what came after.


I think Talk is a decent album. It's timing was terrible. Bad enough that it was an album that sounded like it was made in 1987 or 1988 getting released in 1994, (killing its commercial potential) but coming out as it did on the heels of ABWH and Union, I think it seemed like a step backwards for the band to fans, in terms of what they wanted the band to be and who they wanted in it (and it didn't look much like Yes either, what with the album cover). I also think that Talk is better than the majority of albums released under the Yes name that came after, but IMO that's not a very tough thing to do.

[Garden Dreamer]

Nothing has changed for me no matter how many listens I give these albums - referring to anything post-Drama. Trevor-Yes is unlistenable to me (I'm not calling those albums weak, just not my cuppa tea) and I could pick a track or two from the remaining albums that I would consider decent, but there is no reason for me to have anything post-Drama in my collection.

[Mister Triscuits]

Funny, the other day I pulled out Keys vol 2, studio disc, as I've always loved 'Mind Drive', and notice that 'Mind Drive' doesn't really do it for me anymore

"Mind Drive" starts out great. Listening to that opening for the first time was really thrilling. But when it stops dead about five minutes in and switches to that namby-pamby little "It will bring you rain" ditty, that just kills all the momentum. Even though the whole thing has some interesting compositional work tying things together later on, that part just ruins it for me.

I like the KTA1 studio tracks much better than the KTA2 ones. I think "That, That Is" is the best thing they've done post-'70s (not counting ABWH).

[yesstiles]

With Close to the Edge, I took out "I Get Up, I Get Down", "The Preacher, The Teacher".....

Yikes. Yes is my favorite artist. In all of Yes' vast canon, "The Preacher The Teacher" is to me their pinnacle moment. Shivers and goosebumps. Studio version that is; the post 1973 Squire-harmonica versions ruin it for me.

[yamishogun]

^
That was just a little joke :)

[DTA]

I've actually come to like Open Your Eyes. If they had just gotten a bit more adventurous with some of the songs and didn't waste their good bits in shoddy songs, I think it'd be a really great album. The title track is incredible, and the rest of the songs all have something good in them I can latch onto (except Loveshine and Man In The Moon - even the titles suck on those). The intro to Wonderlove (another stupid title) is outstanding and I can imagine it being the intro to a sprawling epic, but then it devolves into sappy, adult-contemporary schlock, much like Miracle of Life. But schlock is good every now and then!

[Mikhael]

I think Talk is a decent album. ...it didn't look much like Yes either, what with the album cover

Now this I agree with. It also didn't SOUND like the Yes most fans wanted. I took it for what it was, without prejudice, since I thought BG was pretty crappy (especially in the production - the snare sounded like somebody tapping on a table-top), and I knew it wasn't going to sound like Howe-era Yes. So as a stand-alone recording, I thought it had some good material on it.

[happytheman]

What Igor has composed that makes you think that? Honest question :)
Have yet to find a copy that's priced reasonably.. but this shows Igor could not only play but write..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6o9zWUG-Zg&list=PLsksydNAcLAVYFrvROZNo4GWjZNAIUNg_

[rich]

I wish Igor had continued with the band. I think he would have brought some decent compositional chops to Yes and his keyboard playing was top notch.


Agreed, he really was talented... blows Mrs Doubtfire away (Jeff Downes)

[rich]

" i'll get flack for this but i think Going For The One is a weak album. sure Awaken is brilliant, but the rest is so so."

no flack, I used to think that... the preceding LP'S were simply stupendous with the exception of Tales imho... now I will get some flack!! I have grown to love GFTO and think of it as a top 5 Yes LP. I think Parallels is brilliant particularly on Yesshows. Of the post Tomato LP"S I'd put Talk and the Ladder at the top, both great to these ears.

[bondegezou]

What Igor has composed that makes you think that? Honest question :)

Well, he released a solo album, Piano Works, that's great: http://www.relayer35.com/Yescography/PianoWorks.htm On The Ladder, he had a big part in writing "Homeworld" (the chorus), "If Only You Knew", "It will be a Good Day" and "New Language", it appears.

Henry

[Progbear]

I quite liked Magnification. I was impressed with the suite on FFH but it hasn’t really held up. I still find it decent/listenable, but I think there are newer bands that are Yes-influenced that do that type of thing much better. I wonder what that means.

I should try out The Ladder one of these days. It’s probably the only post-ABWH album apart from KTA and the ones I’ve mentioned that I have any interest in.


Talk has quite a few very big fans, actually. I don't get it at all, I'm sorry to say. The only thing that feels like 'Yes' about it to me is that Jon Anderson is singing on it- something it shares with Open Your Eyes.

Yeah, I don’t feel it. “Endless Dream” was meant to evoke classic Yes but just felt like the usual Rabin AOR fluff padded with new-age noodling.

[Splicer]

I thought his album, Piano Works, from around the time he was in Yes was rather good. I'm assuming some of those tracks might have been reworked as Yes songs rather than solo piano pieces.

[Haruspex Carnage]

Weak Yes albums to me are Union and Open Your Eyes...in fact i can't even name a single track off those two...unless i just did.

FFH and H&E i don't even pretend exist...joke.

[Sean]

There are no weak Yes albums! Only weak souls!

Bwoooohahahahahahahha! :D

[Booba Kastorsky]

I guess I should qualify the "weaker" description. Of course, with my namesake, even a weak YES album is better than 95% of what else is out there. Even Heaven and Earth.

With all my respect, this statement is questionable and disrespectful to other artists "out there". Looks like being YES die-HEAD means loving anything labeled "Yes", even if it hardly sounds like Yes ;)
Every band with long and glory history have album(s) that they would rather not recorded and that hardly add to their glory.
As much as I love Yes, I clerly understand Yes have their shares of such kind of albums. Heaven and Earth with a fake Jon Anderson vocalist is definitely one of them, and hardly "is better than 95% of what else is out there".

[Booba Kastorsky]

Weak Yes albums to me are Union and Open Your Eyes...in fact i can't even name a single track off those two...unless i just did.
FFH and H&E i don't even pretend exist...joke.
Union isn't that bad, IMHO,
As of FFH and H&E: no joke in your statement to me! :)

[Trane]

Re-Visiting weaker YES albums

wouldn't that be 95% of all Yes albums?? :p




You want to discuss most everything since Going For The One? or since Relayer?

Since CTTE (though I like Relayer)... and everything before TYA



i'll get flack for this but i think Going For The One is a weak album. sure Awaken is brilliant, but the rest is so so.


I think some are getting to realize this. Take Awaken out and you've got something worthy of Tormato.


There are no strong Yes albums! Only weak souls!

Bwoooohahahahahahahha! :D

:p

[Progatron]

I love Going For The One from beginning to end. Beautiful album. You lot are off your rockers. :D :p

[YESHEAD777]

[QUOTE=Mikhael;553176]I know I'm definitely in the minority here, but I thought "Talk" was the strongest of the Rabin years. About 75% of it was really good to me. I rate it above most of what came after.

I like Talk alot too. And I like the lesser played tracks from 90125 and BG like Changes, Hearts, Shoot high Aim Low, Final Eyes, and I'm running. I also think the first five tracks on Talk are very consistant. State of Play is a real sleeper cut for me-it really rocks, and sounds great cranked up. Where will you be is the only clunker, and Endless Dream starts and ends great, but is very incohesive. Probably my fav Rabin era album overall too.

[YESHEAD777]

BTW....love Tormato too. Brings back alot of great memories, like the amazing in the round tour of '79.

[YESHEAD777]

With all my respect, this statement is questionable and disrespectful to other artists "out there". Looks like being YES die-HEAD means loving anything labeled "Yes", even if it hardly sounds like Yes ;)
Every band with long and glory history have album(s) that they would rather not recorded and that hardly add to their glory.
As much as I love Yes, I clerly understand Yes have their shares of such kind of albums. Heaven and Earth with a fake Jon Anderson vocalist is definitely one of them, and hardly "is better than 95% of what else is out there".

Guess I should have added IMHO, sorry you interepreted my statement as questionable and disrepectful, it sure wasn't meant to be. And YES, I guess I'm guilty of liking anything labeled YES, even if it hardly sounds like YES IYHO.

[yesstiles]

"Tormato" Side 1 is better than "Going For The One" Side 1.

[JJ88]

As for Fly From Here, I've been meaning to play it again but I feel kind of lukewarm about it. It occupies a strange place in their history because Benoit David was out only a matter of months after its release, and Oliver Wakeman was already out before its release (he contributed a little to the album).

It's not a bad effort but very heavy on old songs. Worse still, the big 'suite' doesn't really cohere at all...largely because of 'Bumpy Ride'. Surely they could have come up with something better than that, to bridge the other songs together?

I always liked 'Into The Storm' and 'Hour Of Need' though...they are accessible but feel like old Yes to me.

[BigSixFan]

Guess I should have added IMHO, sorry you interepreted my statement as questionable and disrepectful, it sure wasn't meant to be. And YES, I guess I'm guilty of liking anything labeled YES, even if it hardly sounds like YES IYHO.

Everyone has their fanbois. There is an ELP appreciation site on Facebook that has fans comparing Emerson to Bach, Beethoven and Mozart, as well as considering his technical skills better than anyone who ever lived. Like your 95% comment, life is filled with hyperbole...

[Mikhael]

"Tormato" Side 1 is better than "Going For The One" Side 1.

No.

[2steves]

I love Going For The One from beginning to end. Beautiful album. You lot are off your rockers. :D :p

Agree --100% --For me weak Yes albums are albums with a lot of weak tracks---even if there are a few good songs---and the list is long in the 80's and 90's.

Like most of Yes west---the Ladder------Tormato---Heaven and Earth----yes west Union cuts---Fly from here---only one horrible Yes album OYE

All the rest are good albums.:)

[Phlakaton]

goodness me... I read the thread title "re-visiting wanker Yes albums" lol Big Generator signaled the end for my tastes. Its almost that production became too clean or something... like that ruined some of it for me - but the songs also seemed too light and happy too. Meh... my own problem I suppose. I know there is some solid music in there.

[Mister Triscuits]

goodness me... I read the thread title "re-visiting wanker Yes albums" lol

Those would be any of the ones featuring Rick Wankman.

[YESHEAD777]

Those would be any of the ones featuring Rick Wankman.

ok....that is freaking hilarious.

[JKL2000]

Talking about post-90125, The Ladder and Magnification are the best of the bunch. I've sort of come around to some of the Keys material...at least they were making an effort. I can't say the rest of the later albums are played very often...once/twice a year, and Open Your Eyes I haven't bothered with for a few years.

As for Fly From Here, I've been meaning to play it again but I feel kind of lukewarm about it. It occupies a strange place in their history because Benoit David was out only a matter of months after its release, and Oliver Wakeman was already out before its release (he contributed a little to the album).

It's not a bad effort but very heavy on old songs. Worse still, the big 'suite' doesn't really cohere at all...largely because of 'Bumpy Ride'. Surely they could have come up with something better than that, to bridge the other songs together?

I always liked 'Into The Storm' and 'Hour Of Need' though...they are accessible but feel like old Yes to me.

Put me in the "Bumpy Ride is the worst thing they ever released" camp. It sounds like 70s game show music.

[miamiscot]

Why do people hate Bumpy Ride so much? I thought it was the highlight of the Side One Suite.

All the Keys material is great. As is The Ladder and Magnification!!!

The Yes West stuff was so-so. I never listen to those records (which is probably why I'm not too excited about the whole ARW thing...)

[Digital_Man]

Bumpy ride sounds like music for pre-schoolers.

By the way, how does "Heaven and Earth" rate in Yes's catalog? How many albums(and which ones)would you consider to be worse? It's the only Yes studio album I have never owned or heard.

[yamishogun]

Why do people hate Bumpy Ride so much? I thought it was the highlight of the Side One Suite.



I had a Japanese girlfriend who I forced, yes forced to listen to the full 23 minutes. She knows maybe 500 words of english and I told her the name of the part that was so out of place. When we got to it she cracked up and laughed "Bumpy ride!!"

I know what Howe was aiming for. First, composing two minutes on the song so he would have a part. Second, be creative and throw in turbulence. He gets a lot of points for creativity except it ruined the ending. Third, he wanted to be on the suite. Fourth, Howe really , really wanted to be a part of the writing on the Suite. Fifth, he was thinking "After all, I am Steve Howe! I get two minutes on this!"

:D

[Facelift]

Bumpy ride sounds like music for pre-schoolers.

By the way, how does "Heaven and Earth" rate in Yes's catalog?

The general consensus? Not well.

In here? There are a few people who don't hate it.

[Digital_Man]

[It sounds like music from a children's TV show. ]

Exactly. I guess I'm not the only person to think that. I always visualize little kids running around(or doing some funky little dance) when I hear it.

[ledsox]

Bumpy ride sounds like music for pre-schoolers.

By the way, how does "Heaven and Earth" rate in Yes's catalog? How many albums(and which ones)would you consider to be worse? It's the only Yes studio album I have never owned or heard.

I put H+E above Talk, OYE, Union and FFH (I know that's not saying a lot). For me it's in there with Tormato, The Ladder and Magnification as flawed albums that I still really like big parts of.
It's a different Yes, for sure. It's the lightest (and poppiest) Yes album and it took a few plays to sink in but it has a Yes heart at it's core that I think will age well. Also, it's not overproduced at all and the cd can be turned up loud.
I did make my own cdr version with a slightly sped up "Believe Again" and resequenced it with the best of the FFH tracks and it's a fun engaging listen.

[Digital_Man]

According to rateyourmusic the only Yes album that is rated lower is "Open your eyes." On progarchives, it's the same thing(as far as original studio albums go).

[Kcrimso]

Bumpy ride sounds like music for pre-schoolers.

By the way, how does "Heaven and Earth" rate in Yes's catalog? How many albums(and which ones)would you consider to be worse? It's the only Yes studio album I have never owned or heard.

Only Open Your Eyes is worse.

[Reginod]

I didn't have a problem with "Bumpy Ride" as a bit of music, but the way it was shoved into the FFH suite didn't work, IMO. I would have wanted to take some more time and arrange things differently.

H&E wasn't a bad album but certainly lacked energy.

At this point my question is, will Yes ever make another album? I'm sure that they don't lack for material, but if the will isn't there among all the members, then I guess it won't happen.

Even though I'd probably go to the show if they came to town, I've got little interest in Yes as a live band at this point. If they can re-invent themselves as a creative entity, that will be cool.

And I also feel that, even though the current membership is doing OK in terms of keeping Yes out performing to audiences, the real key to the band's legitimacy lies in Jon Anderson's hands. Too bad that the legal reality of Yes says otherwise.

In terms of weak Yes albums, you get what you get. I like or can at least appreciate them all for different reasons, but I don't think anyone is going to say with a straight face that what they've done in the last 35 years is as good as what came before.