King Crimsom and the FracKtal groups: How do you rate the albums.

[StevegSr]

Thrak, Space Grove, The ConstruKction of Light, Heaven and Earth, The Power to Believe and a Scarcity of Miracles. How do you rate these KC and the associated Projekct's 1, 2, 3, and 4 albums?

[Sputnik]

I've never heard the ProjeKcts stuff. The bit on ConstruKction of Light didn't interest me much, and I never really explored those. But I own, or have owned, all the other albums.

Scarcity of Miracles didn't really do it for me. I'm not really into sedate music, and this was a pretty sedate album. I got bored with it and let it go. Not saying it's bad, just wasn't up my alley.

The other three are just varying degrees of "love it." TCoL get criticized for its production and being relentlessly heavy, but it may just be my favorite of the three. I listened to this not long ago, and as always I loved it. Power to Believe is also fantastic, though this one gets a little "muddy" toward the end, and doesn't end as strongly to me as it begins. But the strong material here is just killer.

Thrak took me the longest to get into, even though in many ways it's the most accessible. When I first heard it, I was still acclimating to Belew's vocals, which finally started clicking with me on TCoL. So Thrak benefited from that in retrospect, and I like it a lot now. I can now spin pretty much any of these albums and it's a guaranteed enjoyable experience. I really liked this period of the band, in fact it's a toss up between this and the Wetton period which is my favorite.

Bill

[Dave (in MA)]

Not on an album-by-album basis, but as far as the Projekcts went:

P1 > P4 > P2 > P3 for me.

[mogrooves]

The Power To Believe was a real return to form, simultaneously looking back and forward. A strong album. Not so much TCoL, a fairly muddled affair. Thrak I find too monochrome and unrelievedly brutal. The others I don't know.

[StevegSr]

The Power To Believe was a real return to form, simultaneously looking back and forward. A strong album. Not so much TCoL, a fairly muddled affair. Thrak I find too monochrome and unrelievedly brutal. The others I don't know.I absolutely agree with you on TPtB being a look backwards and forwards for KC. It's always amazed me that fans of early KC seem to miss their nod to the past with this album.

[Polska]

For me it's Thrak, Power to Believe and P4.

Tried but can't get into Scarcity and I haven't heard much of the other Projekcts. Should have grabbed the box set when it was still in circulation.

[Sputnik]

I absolutely agree with you on TPtB being a look backwards and forwards for KC. It's always amazed me that fans of early KC seem to miss their nod to the past with this album.Thrak, TCoL and TPtB are replete with "nods to the past." I don't see TPtB as being more-so in this regard than the other two, in fact in some ways I see it as less backwards looking. But it's hard for me to believe any KC fans miss the nods to past on these albums, particularly to the Wetton era.

Bill

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

It's all good, really...

[g.bremer]

For me, it's TPtB->Thrak->P2=P3->TCoL->P4=P6->P1>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Scarcity

I was so excited with TPtB when it came out because it just clicked with me. I felt like they were at the top of their game. It was disappointing to me that the band kind of fizzled out after that. TCoL was the culmination of P2 through P4 material, and though a really good album I felt a lot of it sounded better performed by the Projekcts, especially P2 and P3.

IMO, Scarcity is neither Crimson or a Projekct (I know RF feels differently about this). Maybe because there was nothing to hold my interest and it didn't click either as a forward direction or a nod to the past. I feel it's more like the albums RF and Trey did with David Sylvian. There's a "Crimsony" feeling because of RFs distinctive playing, but no one would consider them anything to do with KC.

[-=RTFR666=-]

The fact is, no matter how closely I study it, No matter how I take it apart, No matter how I break it down...It remains consistent.

:D

[StevegSr]

Thrak, TCoL and TPtB are replete with "nods to the past." I don't see TPtB as being more-so in this regard than the other two, in fact in some ways I see it as less backwards looking. But it's hard for me to believe any KC fans miss the nods to past on these albums, particularly to the Wetton era.

BillHmm..tough room, as Lenny Bruce once said, so I'll reiterate: TPtB was both forward and backwards looking with Thrak and ConstruKction being just backwards looking, IMHO. I acknowledge that KC fans see the former as backwards looking but not TBtB to be both. That should straighten out your corkscrew.

[Sputnik]

Hmm..tough room, as Lenny Bruce once said, so I'll reiterate: TPtB was both forward and backwards looking with Thrak and ConstruKction being just backwards looking, IMHO. I acknowledge that KC fans see the former as backwards looking but not TBtB to be both. That should straighten out your corkscrew.OK. You seemed to imply people didn't see TPtB as being "backward looking," which I don't really think is true.

I agree with you about TPtB being both backward and forward looking. Actually I personally see all of them as being both backward and forward looking, though with "forward looking" I guess it's a question of degree. They didn't "reinvent" music or anything, but I think they all embraced modern elements that gave these albums a different sound than previous KC albums, all the while integrating the Wetton and 80s Belew sound. That's how I hear it.

Bill

[StevegSr]

OK. You seemed to imply people didn't see TPtB as being "backward looking," which I don't really think is true.

I agree with you about TPtB being both backward and forward looking. Actually I personally see all of them as being both backward and forward looking, though with "forward looking" I guess it's a question of degree. They didn't "reinvent" music or anything, but I think they all embraced modern elements that gave these albums a different sound than previous KC albums, all the while integrating the Wetton and 80s Belew sound. That's how I hear it.

BillAnd that straightened out my corkscrew. Well said Bill. :up

[Crystal Plumage]

It's all good, really... That!

[chalkpie]

Thrak, Space Grove, The ConstruKction of Light, Heaven and Earth, The Power to Believe and a Scarcity of Miracles. How do you rate these KC and the associated Projekct's 1, 2, 3, and 4 albums?

Loved most of that except P2, Space Groove, and Scarcity. P3 and P4 were both pretty killer, along with Heaven and Earth. I also really like TCoL, although I know that album divides the phans.

[Trane]

never got interested in the ProjeKcts , so I can't say anything

Thrak was rather interesting but owed much to LRTIA... Vrooom was a preview of the album, but some tracks (no pun intebnded) are better here than in the final version
Simply don't care at all for ConstruKcion of Light, thpough LTIA IV is better than LTIA 3
Power To Beileve is the best of the bunch, IMHO and its preview Level 5 an interesting live alternative

I've yet to investigate their latest stuff - last to years

[notallwhowander]

It's all good, really...

I agree with Dan'l.

I see THRAK, the ProjeKcts, KC2K, and post-KC2K as their own eras. So ranking them all on one criterion doesn't reflect the way I approach the catalogue.

I think THRAK is brilliant, and I could never call it "monochrome." Perhaps that is a detractor's way of describing what I find sonically cohesive.

Out of the ProjeKcts, I've found I gravitate to P3 most and P4 quickly thereafter, specifically P3 Live in Austin, and P4 West Coast Live. What I turn to most, however, is the un-ProjeKct; Bruford & Levin's BLUE. BLUE Nights is a monster of an album, and I revisit it with some frequency.

As for KC2K, you didn't even mention my favorite release by them, a live EP called Level 5. This has some early versions of material on The Power to Believe, and a positively luminous version of "The ConstruKction of Light." IMO, it is the definitive version, where the music ripples like sunlight on a river. It might be the best expression of the interlocking guitar style developed by Belew and Fripp.

Many of the other songs on the album The ConstruKction of Light have better versions on the follow-up EP Happy With What You Have to Be Happy With. That version of Larks' Tongues in Aspic IV burns the house down! By this time, the confidence found on The Power to Believe was already in place. TPTB is a great album, and avoided the pitfalls of TCoL. However, having been deep into the game at the time, and picked up the two EPs mentioned above, there weren't a lot of surprises there for me.

Two other side-albums from the KC2K era that deserve mention are the Trey Gunn Band's The Joy of Molybdenum, and a kind of sister release, the self-titled Gordian Knot. They are both instrumental rock, saturated with Chapman Stick and Warr Guitar. Both slot into the KC2K period very well.

Scarcity of Miracles never took off for me. I much prefer the Adrian Belew side albums in the post-KC2K world. I only have one Travis-Fripp album, and it's very good, in a soundscapey way, which is a pretty particular mood for me.

I've collected extensively from these periods, so there is a bunch I haven't mentioned. And while I saw the latest incarnation of Crimson, I haven't bought any of it yet.

[NogbadTheBad]

TPtB ahead of Thrak for me then the Projekct 2, TCOL, Rest of the Projekcts then Scarcity.

[Trane]

Many of the other songs on the album The ConstruKction of Light have better versions on the follow-up EP Happy With What You Have to Be Happy With. That version of Larks' Tongues in Aspic IV burns the house down! By this time, the confidence found on The Power to Believe was already in place. TPTB is a great album, and avoided the pitfalls of TCoL. However, having been deep into the game at the time, and picked up the two EPs mentioned above, there weren't a lot of surprises there for me.


I guess I'll have to try that, then... Thanks ;)

[Crystal Plumage]

Repercussions of Angelic Behaviour anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ8x2HinxHU

[Kcrimso]

Repercussions of Angelic Behaviour anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ8x2HinxHU

That is a fantastic album! If it would be counted among the ProjeKcts I would say that it is one of the best.

[NogbadTheBad]

Agreed, it's one of my favorite tangential Crimbo albums.

[notallwhowander]

Yeah, I think of Repercussions... as the other un-ProjeKct.

[MudShark22]

Repercussions.... is great as is the Rieflin Birth of a Giant made concurrently w/ RF and TG.

TCoL as a studio rekkid, is the weak link; but each of those tunes absolutely crushes live. As such, I listen to Heavy Construkction more often.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

Thrak is my least favorite KC studio album, although I still find plenty to enjoy about it. I like TCOL more than the average, I suspect, and I'd put The Power To Believe in my top 5 for KC albums.

The projeKcts are harder to rate, as most of them I'd put in the same camp...very good to great but rarely truly excellent or superb. That is aside from Scarcity, which is easily the worst.

Rough guess: P1, P4, P3, PX, P2