Lark's Tongue In Aspic 40th anniv and boxset

[Trane]

Just got my 40th anniv CD/DVD in the mail last night... First thing I did was to explore it

I watched the whole Bremen broadcast... what a fucking joy... Only had seen bits of the officially-aired footage
a living testimony of that line-up, and maybe superior to the French ORTF broadcast that was available in the Red 40th deal

- What a surprise to see David Cross also playing the flute in the 30-mins improv (he seemed to handle it pretty well too)...
Why the hell didn't they make him play more often that instrument?
- Jamie Muir was obviously the visual focal point of that line-up with his antics (though he's at the back of the stage in the broadcast)
Curious to see if Fripp would've accepted more of his extravagant behaviour if Muir had remained in the band... waddya think??

=====================

As for the bonus alternate takes tracks:
- I really enjoyed the Exiles work-in-progress, where you can find much of the traces of the debut's title track
- while the Easy Money's Muir solo bonus track was interesting (I take it they single out Muir's specific track and pushed it in the mix, while lowering the rest), I'm kind of disappointed by it... they pushed the rest of the track way too far down.

[jkelman]

- while the Easy Money's Muir solo bonus track was interesting (I take it they single out Muir's specific track and pushed it in the mix, while lowering the rest), I'm kind of disappointed by it... they pushed the rest of the track way too far down.
It is actually Jamie Muir's tracks only, the idea being to demonstrate everything that he brought to the table. It's not meant to be heard again and again, more as a point of demonstration. I didn't realize some of the sounds i'd been hearing were coming from him, so I found it to be a very, very revealing piece, even if it's something I won't listen to often. As great as the group continued to be as a quartet, they absolutely lost something very, very important when Muir left. And yes, I do think Fripp would have continued to let Muir's freak flag fly in performance - it was all part and parcel of who he (Muir) was.

Glad you're enjoying the box. I go home on Saturday after being away since October 23, and am very much looking forward to cracking open MY box when I get home,as I was reviewing the box using digital files sent to me in advance, and the box only arrived after I'd left for this trip.

[Trane]

It is actually Jamie Muir's tracks only, the idea being to demonstrate everything that he brought to the table. It's not meant to be heard again and again, more as a point of demonstration. I didn't realize some of the sounds i'd been hearing were coming from him, so I found it to be a very, very revealing piece, even if it's something I won't listen to often.



Yeah, i suspected it was Muir's track quasi-alone, and indeed it is quite interesting.... but to place these percussions in the tune is relatively difficult... so they might have pushed up a bit more the rest of the tracks for better landmark referrences.

[battema]

And yes, I do think Fripp would have continued to let Muir's freak flag fly in performance - it was all part and parcel of who he (Muir) was.


The liner notes in the big boxset have some good comments from Fripp about Muir, and what KC gained/lost when he left.

[N_Singh]

Still waiting for my box. It was apparently mailed on October 24th by Burning Shed. I'm starting to get worried. Let's hope it arrives. It's already paid for.

[jkelman]

Yeah, i suspected it was Muir's track quasi-alone, and indeed it is quite interesting.... but to place these percussions in the tune is relatively difficult... so they might have pushed up a bit more the rest of the tracks for better landmark referrences.perhaps...but I I guess this album is so much a part of my DNA that I can har the song even without anyone else on it. I'm not exactly sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing :)

[jkelman]

I know. But as articulate as Fripp, Sid and Declan are in their respective pieces, it's the music that tells you how much the group both gained and lost when he left. Lost, because his sheer unpredictability would, I think, have driven the band to even greater heights; gained, because as Fripp says, and Cross is quoted somewhere in the notes also, everyone who remained in Crimson was absolutely changed by the brief time they played with Muir.

[calyx]

Yeah, i suspected it was Muir's track quasi-alone, and indeed it is quite interesting.... but to place these percussions in the tune is relatively difficult... so they might have pushed up a bit more the rest of the tracks for better landmark referrences.

What you're hearing of the rest of the band is what "bleeds" from Jamie's headphones.

[frippster]

Has Muir ever spoken about his brief stint with KC? I don't believe I've seen an interview with him. For that matter, has Muir even been spotted in the last 30 years?

Obligatory DGM question: Anybody got their box from DGM yet?

[calyx]

Has Muir ever spoken about his brief stint with KC? I don't believe I've seen an interview with him. For that matter, has Muir even been spotted in the last 30 years?

There is an interview with him from 1991 published in Ptolemaic Terrascope that I believe can be found on the 'Net.
I interviewed him on the phone in 2000 for the liner notes to Gilgamesh's "Arriving Twice" (Cuneiform Records), since Muir was a former associate of Muir's in the band Sunship (1971-72).
And of course he was interviewed by Sid Smith around that time, excerpts from the interview were used in his book as well as in liner notes for various KCCC releases.

[calyx]

From my 2000 interview with Jamie :

JM : After I left King Crimson, I was off doing... I became a monk and everything, so I would have no connections or whatever with music at all, absolutely none whatever with any musicians. Until 1980.

[...]

So you’ve completely quit music?

JM : Yes. Painting... I’ve been concentrating on painting for... quite a while, really...

No desire to play percussion or drums again?

JM : Not really, no... In the Eighties I played a bit... And when I got woven into a sort of home studio... I had a small pre-production studio, that sort of thing. But... And I was sort of swinging between music and painting. And then I just decided to concentrate on painting. So that’s what I’ve done...

Are you exhibiting?

JM : No, not really... I’ve sort of... I haven’t been really devastatingly successful commercially...

Are you trying?

JM : I’ve been trying hard! I’ve been trying doggedly for years. Yes, I have. I never seem to quite fit into whatever niche... I just. I feel like a square peg trying to get into a round hole... So I just keep on plugging away...

[100423]

Obligatory DGM question: Anybody got their box from DGM yet?

Yes, I received mine on Monday.

[Udi Koomran]

Sad story

I assume he would have received more appreciation and acknowledgment had he continued with music
The choices one makes ...



From my 2000 interview with Jamie :

JM : After I left King Crimson, I was off doing... I became a monk and everything, so I would have no connections or whatever with music at all, absolutely none whatever with any musicians. Until 1980.

[...]

So you’ve completely quit music?

JM : Yes. Painting... I’ve been concentrating on painting for... quite a while, really...

No desire to play percussion or drums again?

JM : Not really, no... In the Eighties I played a bit... And when I got woven into a sort of home studio... I had a small pre-production studio, that sort of thing. But... And I was sort of swinging between music and painting. And then I just decided to concentrate on painting. So that’s what I’ve done...

Are you exhibiting?

JM : No, not really... I’ve sort of... I haven’t been really devastatingly successful commercially...

Are you trying?

JM : I’ve been trying hard! I’ve been trying doggedly for years. Yes, I have. I never seem to quite fit into whatever niche... I just. I feel like a square peg trying to get into a round hole... So I just keep on plugging away...

[JKL2000]

My copy arrived yesterday, but the election was a bit of a distraction. So I've taken it out of the shipping carton, but not the shrink wrap.

^ Meant to say - this was a DGM copy.

[frippster]

Thanks for the Muir info, Calyx. I realize it was 12 years ago, but just curious what he was like when you interviewed him. Eccentric? Down to earth? Somewhere in between? I forgot Sid interviewed him for his book, need to reread that thing anyway.

Good to know DGM copies are being delivered in the US, hopefully I'll get mine in the next few days.

[calyx]

Thanks for the Muir info, Calyx. I realize it was 12 years ago, but just curious what he was like when you interviewed him. Eccentric? Down to earth? Somewhere in between?

Absolutely normal. No signs of eccentricity that I could perceive. But remember this was a phone interview. Lasted about 15-20 minutes and we didn't meet in person, so that's a very limited sample of the man !

[A. Scherze]

My copy from DGM arrived today!

[N_Singh]

And my copy from Burning Shed has arrived today, has well. Awesome!

[mpoll]

One Word Review: Sublime!

[Beebfader]

Those lucky enough to have the `big box', make haste to the session reels disc `Keep That One Nick' and prepare to be rooted to the spot for 80 minutes. Amazing and fascinating stuff !

[jkelman]

Those lucky enough to have the `big box', make haste to the session reels disc `Keep That One Nick' and prepare to be rooted to the spot for 80 minutes. Amazing and fascinating stuff !

Absolutely. While All About Jazz's guidelines prohibit explicit purchase recommendations, in order to distance critical writing from commerce, here I can say it: "Keep That One, Nick" is worth the price of admission to the box. What is quite remarkable (and more successful, I think, than Gabriel's So DNA disc, though I did enjoy that too, and found it somewhat revealing) is that this 8o-minute collage of session reels is something I've listened to many times, and will continue to do so. This isn't just good for the purpose of understanding the recording process (from many perspectives, too, including that these guys were having fun), it's just flat-out great listening.

[Trane]

What you're hearing of the rest of the band is what "bleeds" from Jamie's headphones.

Yeah, that was the second option I had thought about

Having re-listened to it... it's quite obvious now (but I'd have preferred my first option... a total remix)

I'll compare this "re-mixed" version with the 30th ASAP

And while I'm at , I'll re-do the same for Red

[Sid Smith]

I was talking to Jamie on the blower just last week. He's in fine fettle and well impressed with the LTIA box set.

[Dave (in MA)]

This isn't just good for the purpose of understanding the recording process (from many perspectives, too, including that these guys were having fun), it's just flat-out great listening.I totally agree. I might have to edit my own version with the CLUNKs between sections removed, though.

[gregory]

Has Muir ever spoken about his brief stint with KC? I don't believe I've seen an interview with him. For that matter, has Muir even been spotted in the last 30 years?


Well there's a CD 'Ghost Dance' been released somewhere in '90s, the music recorded in 1983, by Muir, Michael Giles and David Cunningham.

[sphinx]

There is an interview with him from 1991 published in Ptolemaic Terrascope that I believe can be found on the 'Net.
I interviewed him on the phone in 2000 for the liner notes to Gilgamesh's "Arriving Twice" (Cuneiform Records), since Muir was a former associate of Muir's in the band Sunship (1971-72).
And of course he was interviewed by Sid Smith around that time, excerpts from the interview were used in his book as well as in liner notes for various KCCC releases.

There is also an extensive 2 part interview from 1993 on www.projekction.net:

http://www.projekction.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=2754
http://www.projekction.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=2763

The other KC alumni interviews are also fantastic, such a shame that the transcription of further interviews hasn't been finished as promised :(

[Trane]

Ok, I did a comparison between the 30th and 40th stereo versions...

I connected a second CD player on my stereo's Aux input and played them simultaneously and zapped between the two...
And I switched both versions of deck, just to make sure and no error induced by a different amplifier input level.

I notice that the 40th are notably louder, maybe a tad more precise, but this is a question of remastering, isn't it?

As for the remix, I can't say I noticed much difference, if any...

So if some can give an example where there is an evident remix touch induced by Wilson??


PS: I would've tried with both versions of Red I have, but I lent the 40th version to a buddy

[jkelman]

Ok, I did a comparison between the 30th and 40th stereo versions...

I connected a second CD player on my stereo's Aux input and played them simultaneously and zapped between the two...
And I switched both versions of deck, just to make sure and no error induced by a different amplifier input level.

I notice that the 40th are notably louder, maybe a tad more precise, but this is a question of remastering, isn't it?

As for the remix, I can't say I noticed much difference, if any...

So if some can give an example where there is an evident remix touch induced by Wilson??


PS: I would've tried with both versions of Red I have, but I lent the 40th version to a buddy
No point with Red, as there is no new stereo mix - they felt it was fine as-is, so left it alone, though it was remastered.

As far as LTIA, there shouldn't be noticeable changes in the mix, with respect to instrument placement across the stereo image; what there should be (and is) is a greater clarity and transparency between the layers. You can hear individual parts (at least, I can) far more clearly.

[ca1ore]

Still haven't received my copy from DGM. Figure I will give it another week, then cancel. They had no problem charging my credit card over 5 weeks ago.

[Arkangel3]

Unless I absolutely have to, I prefer not to buy from DGM because they tend to drop the ball. Burning Shed however, always comes through in the clutch!

[TheH]

I ordered my box set (couldn't resist) about a week after the release date, and got it delivered within 3 days from one of my favourite suppliers here in Germany.

Good to have reliable suppliers.

[Lo-Fi Resistance]

Yep, I'm thinking this going on the Xmas list!

[JeffCarney]

No point with Red, as there is no new stereo mix - they felt it was fine as-is, so left it alone, though it was remastered.


No, it wasn't. For stereo, the 40th of Red just contains the 30th mastering. For some reason it was turned up just a tad in volume but it's the same mastering.

[Trane]

No, it wasn't. For stereo, the 40th of Red just contains the 30th mastering. For some reason it was turned up just a tad in volume but it's the same mastering.

Hey Jeff (nice to see you here... wondered if you'd joined up),

That's what I figured what they did with LTIA as well... Though Jkelman is right, you can hear more clearly the separate instruments, partly because it's louder, but not just that... but I attribute that to a remastering...
Remixing is touching the balance of instruments between themselves, right??

[jkelman]

No, it wasn't. For stereo, the 40th of Red just contains the 30th mastering. For some reason it was turned up just a tad in volume but it's the same mastering.
Oops, of course you're correct - sorry, my bad.

[jkelman]

Hey Jeff (nice to see you here... wondered if you'd joined up),

That's what I figured what they did with LTIA as well... Though Jkelman is right, you can hear more clearly the separate instruments, partly because it's louder, but not just that... but I attribute that to a remastering...
Remixing is touching the balance of instruments between themselves, right??
The balance of the instruments is only one aspect to mixing. Where they appear in the stereo (or now surround) field is another. Possible addition of EQ, reverb or other things is another. Mixing is basically the task of taking all those tracks and putting them together in some way that makes some sense.

[JeffCarney]

Remixing is touching the balance of instruments between themselves, right??

It could be this or any number of other things ...

Remixing is done from the multitracks used to create a final mix.

Remastering is done from the final mix.

[Trane]

The balance of the instruments is only one aspect to mixing.
Where they appear in the stereo (or now surround) field is another.
Possible addition of EQ, reverb or other things is another.
Mixing is basically the task of taking all those tracks and putting them together in some way that makes some sense.

I'd have thought the placement in the visual image part of the remastering, but I guess you're right




Remixing is done from the multitracks used to create a final mix.

Remastering is done from the final mix.

yes, I know that, but to make indivudual instruments clearer from the rest is nore like "cleaning/cleansing" the individual tracks, which is generally understood as part of the remastering, isn't it??

[Doctor Flang]

yes, I know that, but to make indivudual instruments clearer from the rest is nore like "cleaning/cleansing" the individual tracks, which is generally understood as part of the remastering, isn't it??

Actually, no. One can not alter the individual tracks unless the multracks are involved. That is called remixing. Of course, the remastering process can make some instruments sound more prominent.

[JeffCarney]

yes, I know that, but to make indivudual instruments clearer from the rest is nore like "cleaning/cleansing" the individual tracks, which is generally understood as part of the remastering, isn't it??

I guess it could referred to as "cleaning," but it's really just second guessing the original levels agreed upon by the original engineer/s and producer/s.

To bring up levels of a specific instrument when remastering a final mix would not really be possible as all the levels have been adjusted and are on the final stereo or mono master tape. You can do it via EQing because adding certain EQ frequencies will bring clarity to certain things. For example, if you thought the voice on a stereo master tape was not high enough, you could add some 3k to try to bring it out a bit, but this is quite different than working with multitracks.

[jkelman]

I'd have thought the placement in the visual image part of the remastering, but I guess you're right



yes, I know that, but to make indivudual instruments clearer from the rest is nore like "cleaning/cleansing" the individual tracks, which is generally understood as part of the remastering, isn't it??
Except that mastering doesn't work with individual tracks, so as per above, yes I am right (:)(. Mastering can, however, make some tracks stand out more than others depending on how they eq it. but we're talking about EQ'ing the stereo (or 5.1) master, not individual tracks; that takes place during the mixing process.

[Beebfader]

Lark's Tongues is very definitely REMIXED, it's miles better than the original mix IMHO.

[jeffo621]

I got mine a few weeks ago, and then the wife quickly hid it from me, so as to keep it from accidentally being opened before Christmas



What a surprise to see David Cross also playing the flute in the 30-mins improv (he seemed to handle it pretty well too)...
Why the hell didn't they make him play more often that instrument?


I seem to recall reading in the liner notes for The Great Deceiver, that Cross experimented with flute and singing in the early rehearsals, but said that they were activities "best left to non-smokers." I seem to recall (damnfino what happened to those liner notes) that Wetton also played some violin and they experimented with a violin duet - I don't think that ever made it onstage. At least it doesn't seem like there is any point on the Zoom Club or Hull College releases in which there are two violins going

[CaffieneMan]

Looking forward to receiving mine on Christmas :)

[calyx]

I seem to recall (damnfino what happened to those liner notes) that Wetton also played some violin and they experimented with a violin duet - I don't think that ever made it onstage.

It actually did - until they played Leicester and members of Family were in the audience and told Wetton after the show that he'd played badly - he never touched a violin in public after that.

[Trane]

It actually did - until they played Leicester and members of Family were in the audience and told Wetton after the show that he'd played badly - he never touched a violin in public after that.

I take it that it was either Family's Weider or Grech that were in the attendence... most likely Wetton's violin experimentations came from his Family days

[Trane]

Bump, since most of you are getting their boxsets in the snail mail

[gregory]

Lark's Tongues is very definitely REMIXED, it's miles better than the original mix IMHO.
I didn't hear the guitar arpeggios in BoS as clear as on original record - and the vocals are too much upfront.

[Arkangel3]

I have an extra box set, still in its original mailing package unopened. I ordered a second one because I honestly thought mine floated out to sea from Kennedy Airport after Hurricane Sandy. It didn't, and arrived a few days after the disaster struck, perfectly intact, and on the same day my power came on. I am waiting to sell this when they stop producing the set and I PROMISE it will be sold for EXACTLY what I paid for it (roughly $120 for the set plus my $20 postage= $140. Your choice of shipping, your cost. Pay Pal ONLY.) I might even waive my shipping cost as "cost of doing business" which would mean $120 USD plus whatever the shipping charges are to your location. I will wait ONE MONTH AFTER THE FIRST (and ONLY?) PRESSING IS SOLD OUT. I am looking to recoup my cost and make someone happy who may have missed it. I might even take installments (2-3 payments) and because we all are friends here. I am NOT looking for a profit; I am just looking to make someone happy...but like I said, I will not sell this set until the last ones are sold at DGM, Burning Shed, or Amazon. I want it to mean something to someone. I'll post on the OT board when I'll sell it. First come, first served.

[powell8]

I have an extra box set, still in its original mailing package unopened. I ordered a second one because I honestly thought mine floated out to sea from Kennedy Airport after Hurricane Sandy. It didn't, and arrived a few days after the disaster struck, perfectly intact, and on the same day my power came on. I am waiting to sell this when they stop producing the set and I PROMISE it will be sold for EXACTLY what I paid for it (roughly $120 for the set plus my $20 postage= $140. Your choice of shipping, your cost. Pay Pal ONLY.) I might even waive my shipping cost as "cost of doing business" which would mean $120 USD plus whatever the shipping charges are to your location. I will wait ONE MONTH AFTER THE FIRST (and ONLY?) PRESSING IS SOLD OUT. I am looking to recoup my cost and make someone happy who may have missed it. I might even take installments (2-3 payments) and because we all are friends here. I am NOT looking for a profit; I am just looking to make someone happy...but like I said, I will not sell this set until the last ones are sold at DGM, Burning Shed, or Amazon. I want it to mean something to someone. I'll post on the OT board when I'll sell it. First come, first served.

What a very nice, civilized gesture. 'Nuff said. Had to wait for my power for eight days while having the box set but I still have my house.

[notallwhowander]

Looking forward to receiving mine on Christmas :)

Me too, I've been looking at my copy for months. It's still in its cardboard shipping container though. If I could see the cover art, the temptation might be too much.

[Arkangel3]

Thanks, dude. I could probably hold on to it and make a fortune on eBay, but that's just not me. I'd rather have someone get it that I know will appreciate it. I'm paying it forward. There was a guy on eBay that I bought the Brave Live DVD and Brave Live CD from. He was absolutely delighted that a true Marillion fan bought the package. He told me he had offers to split up the set but he refused, knowing that they would probably go to someone wanting to make a further profit on each item rather than the set going to someone who truly would appreciate it. Yeah, it cost me a little, but it's worth it, especially since both are WAY OOP. It's nice being a part of making someone happy, be it on the giving or receiving end.