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Staun
08-23-2018, 12:41 PM
Listened to both albums last night and thought about which one I liked best. Both are fantastic in their own way but I really think I liked the first Asia by a gnats eye lash. I saw both tours and I had never seen Carl or John Wetton before. I recall how professional they were and how I just sat there stunned by what I was hearing and seeing. 90125 had a lot of moving pieces to it. How good would Trevor be live and could he pull off the older material. How comfortable would the entire band be playing this type music? I remember the energy Chris displayed that night. He was certainly at the top of his game. Well, has anyone else decided their all time fav?

ScottAM
08-23-2018, 01:13 PM
Both albums must have been shockers to prog fans from the 70's who would be disappointed with the pop directions of these releases. But since I came into the bands just around the time that these albums were released, I loved them both. 90125 is way out in front for me, as all things Yes are of much greater love to me than Asia. But that debut Asia album is very impressive, given that band's approach to songwriting. Ironically, it was the live concert video with Greg Lake fronting Asia that made the biggest impact on me at that age, as I never saw them in concert live in person. The Yes 90125 tour was my first concert ever, and what a thrill it was!

Top Cat
08-23-2018, 01:24 PM
Rating albums is like trying to decide which child you like better, it's impossible! why even try?
These 2 bands and these albums are so different, it's truly apples and oranges here.

Scott Bails
08-23-2018, 01:31 PM
Asia was my gateway to all things prog, so it will always hold a special place in my heart. And I enjoy a lot of AOR, so I don't have the hangups about it that many others do. So, it remains one of my all-time faves. But I also really enjoy 90125, as well, as it was my first Yes album.

arturs
08-23-2018, 01:42 PM
My first Yes album was Drama and I worked my way backwards. Two years later, 4 of my favorite musicians were suddenly "cool" as members of a new supergroup. Another year later 90125 came out, and my favorite band was cool again. Not that any of my friends gave a shit, but I loved boasting about how I was into all these guys way before they were "big".

Underneath all that, both albums were deserving of the success they got. Both still hold up for me.

SongForAmerica
08-23-2018, 02:08 PM
The Asia album was an atrocity: horrible garbage made by musicians who knew better, all to make a buck.

In contrast, 90125 represented a revitalized Yes with fresh and excellent songs such as "Owner of a Lonely Heart," "Changes," "Leave It," and "Hearts." Although not as good as the very best Yes albums--The Yes Album, Fragile, and Close to the Edge--it was a vast improvement over the dreadful Tormato and a definite step up from the uninspired Drama.

Yes's big mistake thereafter was taking four whole years to release the next album and having Trevor Rabin be its producer.

JJ88
08-23-2018, 02:25 PM
One of the benefits of getting into these bands decades after the event is that I don't get the sense of 'betrayal' that older fans did, with albums like these (and I like Genesis' 80s/90s stuff). I can understand those views but this is why I don't personally have them.

Of these, I think 90125 is superior. Despite some strong songs (I basically like all of the album) and the expected excellent musicianship from all four, the production of Asia is cavernous, putting it in league with straight-down-the-line stadium rock and sanding down the edges a little.

By contrast, 90125 had a rock-meets-New Pop aesthetic which was (IMHO) truly inventive. This meant that the songs whilst not sounding very much like they had in the 70s, nevertheless retained the artistry I expect of the band. I am not the biggest fan of anything else YesWest-related, though, so I give Trevor Horn and associates a lot of credit for its success.

Scott Bails
08-23-2018, 02:37 PM
The Asia album was an atrocity: horrible garbage made by musicians who knew better, all to make a buck.

In contrast, 90125 represented a revitalized Yes with fresh and excellent songs such as "Owner of a Lonely Heart," "Changes," "Leave It," and "Hearts." Although not as good as the very best Yes albums--The Yes Album, Fragile, and Close to the Edge--it was a vast improvement over the dreadful Tormato and a definite step up from the uninspired Drama.

Yes's big mistake thereafter was taking four whole years to release the next album and having Trevor Rabin be its producer.

I agree with the bolded parts.

The rest is rubbish. ;)

Top Cat
08-23-2018, 03:28 PM
I agree with the bolded parts.

The rest is rubbish. ;)

I agree with Scott.
Asia has some great memorable, turn up the car stereo and sing along with the songs on it. Asia isn't PROG in my opinion. Perhaps Top 40 prog or rock prog but the idea that music has to be complicated with deep intense cosmic lyrics and complicated time signatures to be any good is pure poppycock!!
Yes is a progressive rock band, Asia isn't... how can you compare them when they're almost two different genres.

JJ88
08-23-2018, 03:31 PM
but the idea that music has to be complicated with deep intense cosmic lyrics and complicated time signatures to be any good is pure poppycock!!


I like the album, always have, but this is a regularly-made straw-man argument. There are many here who like lots of 'pop' but still can't be doing with Asia or other AOR.

Top Cat
08-23-2018, 03:49 PM
I like the album, always have, but this is a regularly-made straw-man argument. There are many here who like lots of 'pop' but still can't be doing with Asia or other AOR.

well after livin 70+ years on this planet, all I can say is wearin stiff britches will give you hemorrhoids...;)

gearHed289
08-23-2018, 05:11 PM
Speaking from 18 year old me's perspective, ASIA was a huge disappointment. I remember the excitement I felt when I found out those four guys formed a band. Then I heard Heat of the Moment. :O When I was in high school, AOR/arena rock was all the rage - Journey, Foreigner, Loverboy, Billy Squire, REO Speedwagon... I didn't like any of it. I had gotten turned on to 70s prog freshman year and became a huge fan of Yes and Rush, and eventually UK, ELP, Ponty, etc. ASIA was just not for me. I saw the tour. It was fine, nothing Earth shattering. Bought a jersey because I did like the album cover. :) In hindsight, the debut has a LOT of strong moments.

90125 was more my thing. By that time I was getting heavy into new wave/synth bands - the FIXX, Thomas Dolby, Missing Persons... I thought Yes did a great job of updating their sound for a new decade. Drama is still one of my favorite Yes albums, and I consider it the bridge between 70s and 80s Yes. I saw that tour, as well as 90125, and in my memory, Drama was superior, despite Horn's struggles with some vocal parts. 90125 was a bit too slick and choreographed. The fact that the follow up took so long and so obviously suffered from the strain of making it is a damn shame. Missed opportunity for a more successful followup.

SteveSly
08-23-2018, 08:29 PM
For me it would be 90125. It was a huge change in direction for Yes, even from Drama (which I love BTW), but it was still high quality stuff. I saw the tour twice and both shows were a blast. Asia was not at all what I was expecting, given the pedigree of the musicians involved, but I liked it for the most part. I also saw the tour which was a lot of fun.

moecurlythanu
08-23-2018, 08:41 PM
Rating albums is like trying to decide which child you like better, it's impossible! why even try?

I wouldn't write either of these children into my will, but I'd give each of them a hundred dollars to go away. ;)

MmusicM
08-23-2018, 09:18 PM
I saw both tours too. 1982?
I embraced the Asia album, as it had 3 of my Fav Prog artists on it, & was hoping for a Prog resurgence as it actually topped the charts! Yes kind of did the same thing with Trevor, who I had been a fan of since his 1st solo album.
True Prog? Okay, no, not really, but at least there were Prog moments & I was hoping it would spark interest to the uninitiated - the Younger 80's listeners who didn't "know" what Prog was.
Marillion's "Script..." kind of follwed with "He Know's You Know," & I thought for sure Prog was comming back in the mainstream world! The radio stations I was listening to at the time played Asia, Yes, & that one Marillion song, so I thought there was Hope!
Like 'em or not, looking back, I think these groups/albums/songs were the catalyst that caused a resurgence; just not in the mainstream that I hoped it would.

noisynoise
08-23-2018, 09:39 PM
Like Scott mentioned above, Asia was also my gateway into prog, but I think 90125 has aged better.

dropforge
08-23-2018, 09:41 PM
In contrast, 90125 represented a revitalized Yes with fresh and excellent songs such as "Owner of a Lonely Heart," "Changes," "Leave It," and "Hearts." Although not as good as the very best Yes albums--The Yes Album, Fragile, and Close to the Edge--it was a vast improvement over the dreadful Tormato and a definite step up from the uninspired Drama.

Get outta heah! :lol

BravadoNJ
08-23-2018, 09:47 PM
Asia was the new animal on the scene. big sound, big vocals, big music and big production. it was nothing like the history of it's members which is why many Prog fans dismiss it as pop. there was a force behind the band that was the architect of it's success. the band soon fell apart then Geoff Downes reinvented it with John Payne and took it into a different direction. we now know that Trevor Rabin was to be a fifth member of Asia but he exited. 90125 was recorded to follow in the success of Asia.

jrw
08-23-2018, 10:26 PM
Interestingly, I loved both of these albums at the time and still do. I also saw both tours and enjoyed both.

Of note, on Asia’s first tour, they played two unreleased songs, Midnight Sun and The Smile Has Left Your Eyes, both of which would end up on Alpha.

My recollection of Midnight Sun was that it would be a mini-epic when recorded. I later had a bootleg cassette and still thought that. When I heard Alpha, I thought “how could they ruin this song!”

tdotdo
08-23-2018, 11:09 PM
Interestingly, I loved both of these albums at the time and still do. I also saw both tours and enjoyed both.

Of note, on Asia’s first tour, they played two unreleased songs, Midnight Sun and The Smile Has Left Your Eyes, both of which would end up on Alpha.

My recollection of Midnight Sun was that it would be a mini-epic when recorded. I later had a bootleg cassette and still thought that. When I heard Alpha, I thought “how could they ruin this song!”

I remember really liking Midnight Sun in concert, too. When I got Alpha, I went straight to that song and was so disappointed. It was bland nothingness.

Gruno
08-24-2018, 12:12 AM
One of the benefits of getting into these bands decades after the event is that I don't get the sense of 'betrayal' that older fans did, with albums like these (and I like Genesis' 80s/90s stuff). I can understand those views but this is why I don't personally have them.


I still can't understand how some feel betrayed (good term, JJ88!). Some take it too far and personal.

GuitarGeek
08-24-2018, 12:37 AM
At the time Asia came out, I had no idea who these guys. I was born in 1973, and at that point, my knowledge of 70's rock music was centered more around the likes of Queen, Uriah Heep, BTO, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Frampton, and Kiss. I'd never heard of ELP, Yes, King Crimson, the Crazy World Of Arthur Brown, Atomic Rooster, Tomorrow, or really, any of the bands those guys had been in during the 70's (except for Heep, and Roxy Music, but I wouldn't know about Wetton's involvement in those two groups until years later).

So I didn't have expectations when I first heard Heat Of The Moment and Only Time Will Tell. They sound good catchy rock n roll songs to me, and they certainly had the "sound of electric guitars" that I "really liked" (thank you Paul Stanley for that word picture). ANd later, I got both of the first two Asia records (fished out of the one dollar bin at Wax Stax). I thought the first two albums were good, and I dug the Asia In Asia concert, which i stayed up to about 2:00am to watch on MTV.

Same thing with Yes. I didn't know who these guys were. I was vaguely aware this was one of the bands Steve Howe had been in before Asia, but apart from the bits of Roundabout and Tempus Fugit that were in MTV's The Road To Asia special, I really didn't know their music, though I was intrigued by a 90125 era news report that referred to them as "the band known for their LP side length songs and extraterrestrial album covers". So Owner Of A Lonely Heart really was my beginning with getting to know this band. I saw the 9012Live video on MTV before I actually owned the album, but I dug it.

Which do I like better? I dunno, I like 'em both. I think both bands are to be commended for doing something different than didn't blow up in their faces. Well, I guess that happened with the post-Alpha Asia (with Wetton coming back, then demanding Howe be 86ed, etc) and pretty much everything Yes has done since 90125, but for a brief while, both bands made it work.

And either was still better than listening to the Allman Brothers Band demonstrate why synths have no place in "Southern Rock" or listening to Graham Nash or Grace Slick go synth-pop, or watching Barbra Streisand crawl around under the covers with Roger Daltrey (yes, you read right, Roger Datlrey!) in her Emotion video. And don't forget Aretha Franklin singing a theoretically romantic duet with George Michael (I guess that made them the Kiki Dee and Elton John of the 80's). As much as I love the 1980's, it was a rough time for anyone who's career had survived the previous decade.

calyx
08-24-2018, 08:21 AM
Interestingly, the two bands were never in competition on the touring front - by the time YesWest began the 90125 in early 1984, Wetton has left Asia and there would be no more Asia gigs until some years later.

Man In The Mountain
08-24-2018, 09:57 AM
I had just started getting into the classic 70's prog when ASIA came out. So, it was a huge disappointment to me. Still, I saw them live on that first tour because I wanted to see Steve Howe & Carl Palmer. The album stayed shelved for about a decade, but over the years I have come to appreciate and enjoy it more and more. It's now a staple of my listing in my iTunes rotation. I find it to be a classic album showcasing an amazing blend of catchy pomp pop with prog sprinklings. Comparable to a great Styx album.

90125, I never liked, never warmed up to it. Aside from 2 or 3 songs that are kinda fun once in a while, the album as a whole does nothing for me. I do like "Owner" a lot though. Was never a Rabin fan, and never a fan of his set of YES albums. Never saw them live during that time, except for Union. To my surprise however, I have enjoyed hearing him again in ARW. Not sure why, maybe just a bit of fun nostalgia... or if you can't have Howe, he's the next best choice. So, enjoy while we can. It can't go on much longer.

miamiscot
08-24-2018, 10:32 AM
I was disappointed with both. I didn't feel betrayed, just confused.
In retrospect, they are both fine LP's - much better than what would follow (Alpha and Big Generator are both terrible records...)

Top Cat
08-24-2018, 10:38 AM
I think what threw a lot of prog fans off of Asia is they were billed as a Supergroup. And with the lineage in the lineup, one would expect a super duper prog album.
But remember you had Geoff Downes, who formed the group and came from a pop group the Buggles.
Geoff brought with him his style of radio music that in Asia flirted with prog but didn't really go full on prog.
And I think, like most supergroups, members saw the band as a chance to work with some great musicians outside their perspective bands and write/play music that was a bit outside the demands of heavy prog.
Not to say Asia wasn't good, at least to me they made good music, and John Wetton in my opinion could sing nursery rhymes and I'd buy it. lol

happytheman
08-24-2018, 11:10 AM
Asia was the new animal on the scene. big sound, big vocals, big music and big production. it was nothing like the history of it's members which is why many Prog fans dismiss it as pop. there was a force behind the band that was the architect of it's success. the band soon fell apart then Geoff Downes reinvented it with John Payne and took it into a different direction. we now know that Trevor Rabin was to be a fifth member of Asia but he exited. 90125 was recorded to follow in the success of Asia.
Yeah wasn't it Howe who said when he first heard 90125 (specifically OOALH) "Hey they're doing Asia"..

yamishogun
08-24-2018, 11:45 AM
Yeah wasn't it Howe who said when he first heard 90125 (specifically OOALH) "Hey they're doing Asia"..

Of course, "Owner" has more prog in it than the entire Asia album.

Scott Bails
08-24-2018, 11:50 AM
Of course, "Owner" has more prog in it than the entire Asia album.

Owner is a very good AOR song with a few orchestra hits thrown in. Not really a whole lot of prog in there.

arturs
08-24-2018, 12:00 PM
My further $.02 on the Asia debut. It was clearly done with radio play in mind, and it clearly wasn't a prog record. But it was their *own* sound. They invented it. No one sounded quite like that in 1982. When you heard Asia on the radio, it could only be them. So, you can love it or hate it, but Asia was no sell-out or copy-cat band. They were four talented guys doing exactly what they wanted to be doing at the time.

I would say the same thing about early Phil Collins, or early 1980s Genesis, or 90125 for that matter. They all invented their own updated sound for the 1980s. They were certainly influenced by contemporaneous music, but they were not mindlessly mimicking others or chasing trends in hope of a hit. They were innovating in their own way.

GuitarGeek
08-24-2018, 12:11 PM
Yeah wasn't it Howe who said when he first heard 90125 (specifically OOALH) "Hey they're doing Asia"..

Don't know about that, but I believe I've read interview excerpts where Howe was talking about how "That's not Yes" or words to that effect. I remember reading an interview with Chris Squire at the time, where the interviewer brought up Howe's criticisms, and Chris said something like "Well, yeah, he got a good settlement", I guess meaning that Howe had to be paid so that they would be legally allowed to use the Yes name.

As for 90125 riding on Asia's coattails or whatever, I'm not sure about that, either. Remember that the band that Rabin, Squire and White were putting together was going to be a new group, called Cinema. It was only after Anderson became involved (apparently, around 3/4's of the way into making the album) that it was decided to call the group Yes.

I bought a copy of Rabin's first solo album, from 1978, sometime in the late 80's or early 90's, and I remember thinking, "So that's why 90125 sounded the way it does", in terms of the general musical direction. That was the kind of music he was doing. And if you listen to 90124, the album of demos he put out about 20 or so years ago, you can hear that too. So I think anything Rabin was going to do would have sounded like that, regardless of whether Asia had been successful or not.


Owner is a very good AOR song with a few orchestra hits thrown in. Not really a whole lot of prog in there.

Except for the production, that sort of "copy/paste" style, as if the music had been assembled inside a computer, which was a bit cutting edge at the time. That was, I guess, Trevor Horn's style of production at the time, as it seems like a lot of the stuff he was involved with at the time (e.g. Art Of Noise, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, etc) have that.

yamishogun
08-24-2018, 12:14 PM
Owner is a very good AOR song with a few orchestra hits thrown in. Not really a whole lot of prog in there.

Still more prog than the entire Asia album.

"Owner" may be AOR but the most unusual AOR song that I can think of.

Staun
08-24-2018, 12:34 PM
They all invented their own updated sound for the 1980s. They were certainly influenced by contemporaneous music, but they were not mindlessly mimicking others or chasing trends in hope of a hit. They were innovating in their own way.A reason why I chose to pair these two albums. I wasn't really looking at them as individual works but more as a continual statement. Although they are different, they have a lot in common. The time frame in which they appeared, the past in which they were born and certainly the success they enjoyed. They seem to say what could be done, coming from a style of music that was supposedly dead or dying. And maybe this is why I liked these albums so much. Because they did step outside, we were all amazed and I felt so energized by what I was hearing. I had no expectations and certainly didn't fell betrayed. Some of my favorite band members were taking a chance on something different for them and did an excellent job at it. And make no mistake, the mainstream was listening.

Scott Bails
08-24-2018, 12:44 PM
Still more prog than the entire Asia album.

"Owner" may be AOR but the most unusual AOR song that I can think of.

Again, it's not prog at all. It has some orchestra hits. As GG points out, that was a Trevor Horn staple at the time. Hell, people were break-dancing to it.

Steve983
08-24-2018, 12:48 PM
The intros to OOALH and HOTM are very similar. Apart from that the only things these albums have in common are that they were both huge disappointments! Just my opinion of course :)

Jaco
08-24-2018, 12:56 PM
It's interesting how often Wetton mentions the idea of doing a complex Prog / fusion album early 80s 'that no one buys' clearly he saw that things just had to change. Curiously Palmer seemed to really want to go away also from his jazz fusion/ Back Door stuff on Works 1 and 2 that so many of his fans would have loved him to play more of. He always says he loves playing songs in his interviews around that time. I think an overlooked disappointed with Asia is that Wetton and Palmer gelled well as a rhythm section on Asia 1 but somehow got completely flattened on Alpha.

Staun
08-24-2018, 01:08 PM
Just a side note, but neither of these albums sounds like prog according at least to how I recognize or define prog. Now this may not make sense, but the sound of the albums themselves may have an 80's sound but the music itself sounds out of time. I get the same sensation from a lot of Rush albums. Again, the sound of the album itself is 80's but the music itself is from another era. Would I expect anything different from progressive musicians?

Staun
08-24-2018, 01:11 PM
It's interesting how often Wetton mentions the idea of doing a complex Prog / fusion album early 80s 'that no one buys' clearly he saw that things just had to change. Curiously Palmer seemed to really want to go away also from his jazz fusion/ Back Door stuff on Works 1 and 2 that so many of his fans would have loved him to play more of. He always says he loves playing songs in his interviews around that time. I think an overlooked disappointed with Asia is that Wetton and Palmer gelled well as a rhythm section on Asia 1 but somehow got completely flattened on Alpha.I admit that there are tunes on alpha that I do like however.

Scott Bails
08-24-2018, 01:29 PM
I admit that there are tunes on alpha that I do like however.

Most of the songs aren't bad, but that album could have been so much better. I love Wetton/Downes, but you really miss Howe's contributions.

dlm
08-24-2018, 01:37 PM
It's interesting how often Wetton mentions the idea of doing a complex Prog / fusion album early 80s 'that no one buys' clearly he saw that things just had to change. Curiously Palmer seemed to really want to go away also from his jazz fusion/ Back Door stuff on Works 1 and 2 that so many of his fans would have loved him to play more of. He always says he loves playing songs in his interviews around that time. I think an overlooked disappointed with Asia is that Wetton and Palmer gelled well as a rhythm section on Asia 1 but somehow got completely flattened on Alpha.


I wouldn't say completely flattened out. The Heat Goes On is one my favorite Asia song.

moecurlythanu
08-24-2018, 01:49 PM
Because they did step outside, we were all amazed

Oh, we were all amazed all right.

Staun
08-24-2018, 02:12 PM
Oh, we were all amazed all right.Oh, come on Mark. Aren't you happy when you expect the same 'ol same 'ol and get something different;).

yamishogun
08-24-2018, 03:10 PM
Most of the songs aren't bad, but that album could have been so much better. I love Wetton/Downes, but you really miss Howe's contributions.

What were the Howe contributions on the first album. I used to forget he was part of Asia because of that.

Scott Bails
08-24-2018, 03:25 PM
What were the Howe contributions on the first album. I used to forget he was part of Asia because of that.

He had more writing credits and his guitar was much more prominently featured.

SongForAmerica
08-24-2018, 03:46 PM
Of course, "Owner" has more prog in it than the entire Asia album.

Yes, exactly.


The rest is rubbish. ;)

Unpossible!

And now, lest a major scandal erupt, I must explain how it is I came to own the first Asia album.

I did not buy it.

I did not steal it.

It was 1985. I was in the dorm room of a student who had never heard of progressive rock. I started describing its characteristics and must have mentioned Yes, Kansas, and Emerson, Lake & Palmer. Perhaps I even mentioned the extraordinary guitar work of Steve Howe.

Anyway. He seemed to recognize some of the musicians' names. He said, "I just bought this album. It's really awful. You want it?"

And guess what he handed me?

There is one great thing about this album: it starts with the letter A. So, for the last 33 years, the first Asia album has served as the endmember of my set of vinyl albums. Because other albums lean against it, it has gotten warped, a fate that would otherwise have befallen the first Adventures album, a work I much prefer.

So thank you, Asia, for a job well done.

Wil
08-24-2018, 04:00 PM
Well, I like them both. Did when they first came out, while I was at college, and still do now. Went to see both tours, too, which was the only time I've seen either band live. I liked Alpha as well (although it hasn't aged as well, for me) and love Big Generator. I can't really give any reasons other than they make me happy when I listen to them and I'll happily accept that some folks may well think my taste, in these cases, sucks.

gojikranz
08-24-2018, 04:02 PM
There is one great thing about this album: it starts with the letter A. So, for the last 33 years, the first Asia album has served as the endmember of my set of vinyl albums. Because other albums lean against it, it has gotten warped, a fate that would otherwise have befallen the first Adventures album, a work I much prefer.

So thank you, Asia, for a job well done.

so I guess you filed your jon Anderson albums under yes?:)

SongForAmerica
08-24-2018, 04:06 PM
so I guess you filed your jon Anderson albums under yes?:)

No, he's under A but comes after the Adventures, Marc Almond, and Ambrosia, all of which are protected from warpage by that Asia album

Top Cat
08-24-2018, 04:39 PM
No, he's under A but comes after the Adventures, Marc Almond, and Ambrosia, all of which are protected from warpage by that Asia album

So you lean your vinyl forward as opposed to the last album having all albums lean against the one on the end? or for some reason you alphabetize with A at the end of the row and B and C, etc follow from the back forward?
I like Asia, but you are absolutely correct and so is everyone else when they say it's not PROG because it's not PROG. Now if you don't like it because you think it's insepid commercial drivel than that's an opinion. But I know you have good taste because you obviously like Kansas, me too, we agree! So please Carry On My Wayward Son...No Son of Mine No Son of Mine...oh wait...wrong group wrong song....:D

Staun
08-24-2018, 04:44 PM
And now, lest a major scandal erupt, I must explain how it is I came to own the first Asia album.

I did not buy it.

I did not steal it.

It was 1985. I was in the dorm room of a student who had never heard of progressive rock. I started describing its characteristics and must have mentioned Yes, Kansas, and Emerson, Lake & Palmer. Perhaps I even mentioned the extraordinary guitar work of Steve Howe.

Anyway. He seemed to recognize some of the musicians' names. He said, "I just bought this album. It's really awful. You want it?"

And guess what he handed me?

There is one great thing about this album: it starts with the letter A. So, for the last 33 years, the first Asia album has served as the endmember of my set of vinyl albums. Because other albums lean against it, it has gotten warped, a fate that would otherwise have befallen the first Adventures album, a work I much prefer.

So thank you, Asia, for a job well done.Thought you were going to say something like, it was 1985, I was young, I needed the money......:).

gojikranz
08-24-2018, 05:15 PM
No, he's under A but comes after the Adventures, Marc Almond, and Ambrosia, all of which are protected from warpage by that Asia album

whoops the adventures part slipped my brain but... AS is after AD and AN. don't know that my obsessive compulsiveness could handle that sort of discrepancy record protection be damned

MudShark22
08-24-2018, 05:36 PM
Re: Asia
For these ears, Asia s/t is the last time Howe had any sort of good guitar tone.

Somewhere btwn Asia and Alpha, Steve decided that a ballsy tone was no longer needed in his repetoire and it never returned.

GuitarGeek
08-24-2018, 06:15 PM
The intros to OOALH and HOTM are very similar.

Well, they're both guitar power chords, but that's about the only similarity. They're playing completely different chord progressions. Owner is, I believe, A, B, C, D, A, B, C, D, G.

I'm not sure what key Heat Of The Moment is actually in, but if you start on A, the verse progression is something like A, B, G, A, D.

If I remember correctly, Howe said once that "the guitar never seemed to be allowed to stick it's neck out" on Alpha. I think he said the record got mixed like three times, the last time by the producer, without any of the musicians involved, and they were all unhappy with the results.

Sputnik
08-24-2018, 06:33 PM
I was very into Yes, ELP and Rush when the Asia album and then 90125 came out. I remember the first time hearing "Heat of the Moment," and "Owner." I was in the car both times. I hated both songs from the second I heard them and still do. I did eventually get exposed to the albums. Asia I never owned, but heard plenty, but I did buy 90125 and gave it the college try.

I do like some songs on each album. On Asia, I like Sole Survivor, Wildest Dreams, and Time and Time Again. The rest I think it utter dreck, the worst kind of cloying and pandering pop rock. On 90125, I sort of like Hold On, which had a sort of bluesy feel, City of Love, Cinema and maybe one other track, though I can't put my finger on which just now. This has never sounded like a Yes album to me, but I don't think I'd have liked it much better had it come out as Cinema or as a Rabin solo album. It's just not the sort of pop music I like. Too slick, too calculated, too over-produced. And the drums just make me insane, way too stiff and mechanical.

Did I feel "betrayed" by my Prog heroes turning out what was obviously a big course correction to the mainstream? Yeah, a bit. I did try to get on board. I went to see both bands live (had to go see Yes by myself as none of my friends would go). There was a kind of energy to both shows, but it seemed so empty to me compared with seeing Yes in 1979. In retrospect, times change and the bands I though were in it for the art turned out to be in it primarily for the money and glory.

Good life lesson, but on balance, not particularly good music. Not to my ears anyway.

I still think that if Howe, Wetton, Palmer, Squire or Anderson were not on these albums, and that 90125 didn't have a YES logo stamped onto it, nobody would be talking about these albums here. But, that isn't how it went down, so we live with the consequences.

Bill

Gravedigger
08-24-2018, 07:10 PM
"Betrayed" is too strong a word, but I was definitely disappointed with ASIA's debut. You have to remember that we didn't have the internet
with constant updates ("Watch Steve change his guitar strings!" "See John quadrupling the chorus vocals!"). The only thing I had to go by
(I won't speak for anyone else) was a photo in the back of a magazine showing the musicians. Any comments by bandmembers were usually
vague "We're really excited to be working together" and "The material is coming along nicely" without description of said material.
Add in that I loved the last albums by YES and UK (not counting live albums), and Palmer wasn't a writer on Love Beach so I was expecting
a bit more fireworks from this group.

After the initial disappointment, I came to (somewhat) enjoy it for what it was, but it isn't anything I reach for...
but I have always enjoyed 90125, so there. ;)

Mister Triscuits
08-24-2018, 08:05 PM
"Betrayed" is too strong a word, but I was definitely disappointed with ASIA's debut.

HUGELY disappointed, and flabbergasted that this was what this combination of musicians came up with...especially after the long hype campaign that had preceded the album for months, emphasizing the individual band members' pedigrees, with the obvious implication that this was going to sound like Yes + ELP + King Crimson + U.K. Well, maybe there was a touch of U.K. there, since that band was itself starting to edge into AOR territory with a couple of tracks on Danger Money and Night After Night, but nothing on those albums was as crass as the material on Asia. "Only Time Will Tell" was a rather nice tune; everything else on the album just felt empty and dead. 90125 didn't fare much better with me. At least I kept the album (unlike the Asia abomination). It has its moments, but overall I consider it mediocre at best. I'd take the Buggles over either one.

Crawford Glissadevil
08-24-2018, 08:17 PM
Yes

arturs
08-24-2018, 09:12 PM
As we're speaking of Asia, I wonder if anyone can confirm or correct my memory on this:

I remember watching a late-night show, maybe "Fridays"?? Or maybe it was some kind of rock music news show at 11 pm? They announced the formation of Asia, who the players were, etc. And they showed a video clip of the quartet. But this was probably before the album was actually recorded and I believe the guys were playing something off Drama. Maybe this was dubbed? Real or my imagination?

Scott Bails
08-24-2018, 09:33 PM
Re: Asia
For these ears, Asia s/t is the last time Howe had any sort of good guitar tone.

Somewhere btwn Asia and Alpha, Steve decided that a ballsy tone was no longer needed in his repetoire and it never returned.

Totally agree. I love his tone on their debut.

Mister Triscuits
08-24-2018, 09:50 PM
AI remember watching a late-night show, maybe "Fridays"?? Or maybe it was some kind of rock music news show at 11 pm? They announced the formation of Asia, who the players were, etc. And they showed a video clip of the quartet. But this was probably before the album was actually recorded and I believe the guys were playing something off Drama. Maybe this was dubbed? Real or my imagination?

Maybe Night Flight? I'm guessing that's where I saw the "Only Time Will Tell" video (with the band on TV monitors and a ballerina somersaulting around them), but that would have been after the LP was released.

Vic333
08-24-2018, 10:54 PM
Both good albums, but 90125 always seemed more substantial. And it still gets a fair amount of play. Only whip out Asia for 80s playlists. I was too young to know who any of the players in either group were, at the time, so I had no idea of their massive history.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

GuitarGeek
08-24-2018, 11:04 PM
BTW, the only time I ever really felt "betrayed" by anyone associated with so called "progressive rock" or fusion music, was in the late 90's when I found out where certain musicians careers went after the prog/fusion hey day of the 70's, and ya know what? It wasn't any of the guys from Yes, Crimson, etc who I got a shock from.

It was finding out that Jannick Top, former Magma bassist eventually produced a record for Celine Dion! It was realizing how many of the great fusion musicians turned to making relatively uninteresting R&B music during the 80's. The man who gave us De Futura produced possibly the least interesting Quebecois musician imaginable.

It was realizing that Narada Michael Walden went from playing drums with Jeff Beck to writing Freeway Of Love and producing Whitney Houston, of all people. I mean, the guy on Wired, and he's on Tommy Bolin's Teaser, too! Actually, now that I think about it, Freeway Of Love wasn't that bad of a song. If you replaced the synth bass with a Fender bass, and got rid of the 80's drum sound, it'd sound like an old fashioned Motown number. And Narada did have the presence of mind to get Clarence Clemons to do the sax solo. But anyway...

It was realizing that Randy Jackson somehow went from playing bass with Jean-Luc Ponty and Blue Öyster Cult (OK, he's only on one BÖC song, but still, that's a cool bass line on Shooting Shark) to being a judge on American FRELLING Idol. I sure hope he got paid good to put up with Simon Cowell.

George Duke, meanwhile, went from playing wtih Frank Zappa, to producing Let's Hear It For The Boy for Deniece Williams. Though, there again, that's kind of a catchy song, so George kinda gets a pass on that one (but he actually loses points in my book, because he didn't want to do the song, and Deniece had to put her foot down and said she wanted to sing it, George said "After about the first million copies, I decided I better start liking this song").

And dont' get me started on Stanley Clarke. Have you ever heard his version of Born In The USA?! Trust me, it's not pretty (though, once again, I actually like most of the other songs on the Find Out album, and it does have a good instrumental on it called My Life).

About the only Englishman who disappointed me that much was Peter Sinfield (another of Celine Dion's collaborators...and I mean that in both senses of the word).

the winter tree
08-25-2018, 10:09 AM
I think 90125 is a great album and was the best album that YES in 1983 could have made. They had to keep up with the times to survive and also keep the YES spirit intact and they did that in spades on this album. It is vastly superior artistically to any of the "arena rock" bands like Journey, Styx, Foreigner, REO etc. They managed to be accessible yet artsy and progressive/cutting edge, not an easy feat.
I found Asia disappointing overall, though there are nice moments peppered throughout. Their second album is abysmal.

noisynoise
08-25-2018, 11:14 AM
They managed to be accessible yet artsy and progressive/cutting edge, not an easy feat.
I found Asia disappointing overall, though there are nice moments peppered throughout. Their second album is abysmal.

I think a lot of that has to do with Trevor Horn, this is a quality of nearly everything he’s produced. If you listen to Seal’s albums you hear interesting sounds and unexpected chord progressions for pop songs. Love The Producers album, by the way.


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yamishogun
08-25-2018, 12:21 PM
I think a lot of that has to do with Trevor Horn, this is a quality of nearly everything he’s produced. If you listen to Seal’s albums you hear interesting sounds and unexpected chord progressions for pop songs.


Horn helped but the core of the songs are more interesting than what was on Asia, where half of those songs were interesting - Wildest Dreams, for example.

For Seal's albums, that applies almost only to the first two albums with a bit on IV and 7.

GuitarGeek
08-25-2018, 02:25 PM
Love The Producers album, by the way.



Too bad they couldn't think of a more original band name (there was an American group back in the 80's called The Producers, you may remember the song She Sheila).

JJ88
08-25-2018, 03:50 PM
I think with Alpha, it's a typical 'difficult second album'. The best songs are IMHO the two they were playing live whilst touring the first album. 'My Own Time' is OK. The rest feels a bit stagnant to me, not really moving on artistically from the debut. Other than the intro I've never particularly liked 'Don't Cry' and the video...yikes. Perhaps it was a little rushed, to capitalise on the huge success of the debut. Can't blame them for that but in the long run it wasn't great for them.

Astra does little for me at all. Howe going removed any semblance of quirk that they had, IMHO.

GuitarGeek
08-25-2018, 03:56 PM
On Alpha, I rather liked:

Don't Cry (though the video wask inda stupid...someone had obviously seen Raiders Of The Lost Ark...always wondered why Wetton is the only band member the girl doesn't kill)
The Smile Has Left Your Eyes
Never In A Million Years
Eye To Eye
Open Your Eyes
The Heat Goes On (nice Hammond organ work from Downes on that one)

profusion
08-25-2018, 07:56 PM
These albums came out at an interesting time for me, personally.

Asia was released when I was about 15 and just before I started playing music myself. I knew some of the more famous songs by Yes and ELP and was a huge Rush fan, but I didn't even know that "prog" existed as a concept. Hence, my experience of Asia was that I *really* liked all the songs that made the radio except "Heat of the Moment" (which seemed a little too "happy happy" for me)--but I never bought it until many, many years later.

90125 came out just before I became a big Yes fan, thanks to trying to learn "Roundabout" on guitar (and mostly failing...). However, I also really liked all the 90125 songs and didn't see it as "watered down", but as a fresh new sound. By the time I became a major Yes fan and a progster, I still had these residual good feelings for 90125.

Years later, it's clear to me that 90125 is the far better and more important of the two. Asia has lots of wonderful bits throughout and two or three songs that are excellent by any standard, but 90125 is a landmark album of the era. The production and songwriting were both very influential across the pop and rock spectrum.

Soc Prof
08-25-2018, 11:17 PM
I read somewhere that Wetton and Downes wrote all of Alpha while Howe was taking a break and spending time with his family. This obviously made it less of a band collaboration.

The standout tracks for me on that album are "Midnight Sun" and "The Heat Goes On." The rest is just okay to my ears. Downes' synths are the main thing that make those other tracks worth listening to for me.

jrw
08-25-2018, 11:37 PM
I read somewhere that Wetton and Downes wrote all of Alpha while Howe was taking a break and spending time with his family. This obviously made it less of a band collaboration.

The standout tracks for me on that album are "Midnight Sun" and "The Heat Goes On." The rest is just okay to my ears. Downes' synths are the main thing that make those other tracks worth listening to for me.

I read where Howe said his ideas weren’t used on Alpha. The b-side of “The Smile Has Left Your Eyes” was “Lying to Yourself” which was a Wetton/Howe song, however.

JJ88
08-26-2018, 04:45 AM
Actually yes I would agree that 'The Heat Goes On' is a good track, in addition to the three I mentioned. Whatever, Alpha was far from the multi-platinum blockbuster their debut was. And then you get the 'Asia In Asia' thing, with another singer.

I also had no idea that Astra did as badly as this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_discography

happytheman
08-26-2018, 09:08 AM
I think with Alpha, it's a typical 'difficult second album'. The best songs are IMHO the two they were playing live whilst touring the first album. 'My Own Time' is OK. The rest feels a bit stagnant to me, not really moving on artistically from the debut. Other than the intro I've never particularly liked 'Don't Cry' and the video...yikes. Perhaps it was a little rushed, to capitalise on the huge success of the debut. Can't blame them for that but in the long run it wasn't great for them.

Astra does little for me at all. Howe going removed any semblance of quirk that they had, IMHO.
I never really knew the back story to Astra.. when the single Go came out it sounded just like the stuff they released on Alpha.. Started in 1984, it marked the return of Wetton to the group after his firing in September 1983. He had been replaced by Emerson, Lake & Palmer co-founder Greg Lake, temporarily, for the concerts at the Nippon Budokan in Tokyo in December 1983. The opening night of these shows, highly advertised as Asia in Asia, was the first in the history of MTV to be broadcast via satellite transmission. Following a two-month stint, Lake had left Asia and soon Wetton had been convinced to come back. The latter agreed, but made it a condition to his return that Howe depart the line-up.

calyx
08-26-2018, 04:16 PM
Following a two-month stint, Lake had left Asia and soon Wetton had been convinced to come back. The latter agreed, but made it a condition to his return that Howe depart the line-up.

It seems to have been a little more complicated than that, since I understand Howe was involved in the early stages of working on "Astra", although he declined to go into details when I interviewed him. So there appears to have been an overlap of several months between Wetton re-joining and Howe leaving, which makes the above claim dubious.

profusion
08-26-2018, 04:19 PM
I listened to Astra again for the first time in at least 30 years. Wow, is it generic. Losing Howe was a big problem.

Drake
08-26-2018, 04:30 PM
Different universes.

90125 is so much better.

Mr.Krautman
08-26-2018, 06:47 PM
ASIA was much better because It's the only CD I ever had who lighted up the deemphasis light on my player. I kept it for many years as a test disc to check this function when fixing CD players. This early feature (which is included in the Red Book) is no longer used today and I lost the CD (left in a customer's player). Don't miss it and never felt the need to replace it.
Even with the preemphasis it sounded crappy to my ears (maybe it had the deemphasis activation bit code but no preemphasis applied at mastering, the reason why it sounded dull and lacking high frequencies)
, and as far as the music is concerned, well...

yamishogun
08-26-2018, 10:21 PM
Different universes.

90125 is so much better.

90125 is art; Asia is a very good rock album.

bRETT
08-27-2018, 12:47 AM
90125 is art; Asia is a very good rock album.

To my mind this nails it.

GuitarGeek
08-27-2018, 12:52 AM
I listened to Astra again for the first time in at least 30 years. Wow, is it generic. Losing Howe was a big problem.

Replacing with a guy from Krokus didn't help matters (and I actually like Krokus!).

JJ88
08-27-2018, 10:06 AM
I listened to Astra again for the first time in at least 30 years. Wow, is it generic. Losing Howe was a big problem.

Agreed. I think the original line-up reunion albums are all better than Astra. The last one they did, XXX, has aged particularly well for me. Not exactly 'prog' (2008's Phoenix had some moderate leanings in that direction, with more instrumental work than usual) but nice songs.

revporl
08-27-2018, 11:56 AM
90125 is brilliant, one of the very best Yes albums just after the amazing run between YA to CTTE . Sonically, it's really innovative , placing Tes's trademark musicianship inside the more interesting, glacial end of 80's production, as if Art Of Noise had dissected and then reassembled the whole idea of what Yes could be (while still being Yes). Something I still listen to and absolutely love the sound of. It was a complete one off for them and kind of stands alone. Before and after 90125 you kind of knew what to expect from a Yes album, even if you loved them, but not this time.

Asia was just ploddy meh

yamishogun
08-27-2018, 12:46 PM
Agreed. I think the original line-up reunion albums are all better than Astra. The last one they did, XXX, has aged particularly well for me. Not exactly 'prog' (2008's Phoenix had some moderate leanings in that direction, with more instrumental work than usual) but nice songs.

I was surprised how good XXX was when it came out. I eventually bought it and liked it even better over time. I didn't buy Phoenix, Omega, or Gravitas since only three or four good songs among those three combined.

Staun
08-27-2018, 02:11 PM
90125 is art; Asia is a very good rock album.I suppose a lot of people thought that about the Asia album since, I believe, it sold more than 90125.

yamishogun
08-27-2018, 08:55 PM
I suppose a lot of people thought that about the Asia album since, I believe, it sold more than 90125.

Wiki says 10 million v. 4 million for 90125. There were lots of 16 year olds who bought Asia for 'Heat of the Moment' to blare from their Trans Ams in summer to pick up chicks. More power to them, now 52, and maybe doing the same thing this summer. :horns:cool

:D

Gruno
08-27-2018, 10:44 PM
Wiki says 10 million v. 4 million for 90125.

When was the last time each were audited for recertification?

yamishogun
08-27-2018, 11:49 PM
When was the last time each were audited for recertification?

Millions of copies were sold. The one thousand Asia records you bought to boost sales was just a tiny drop in the ocean.

MudShark22
08-27-2018, 11:55 PM
Wiki says 10 million v. 4 million for 90125. There were lots of 16 year olds who bought Asia for 'Heat of the Moment' to blare from their Trans Ams in summer to pick up chicks. More power to them, now 52, and maybe doing the same thing this summer. :horns:cool

:DNothing beats crusin' in my 2010 S6 blasting One Step Closer from my dash connected iPod classic while checking the PTA moms.

And yes, I had the album, two cassettes from wearout, and a CD (still have long box)

ThomasKDye
08-28-2018, 12:04 AM
I listened to Astra again for the first time in at least 30 years. Wow, is it generic. Losing Howe was a big problem.

It has its moments; I actually like "Go" (they got Howe to play that one live later, so it couldn't have been that bad), "Hard On Me" is okay in my opinion, and "After the War" is fairly decent with a nice little bit of classical guitar at the end. But yow, "Love Now Till Eternity" may just be the lowest low point they had until "Gravitas": "All that is left, that you are woman and I am man." Brother...

yamishogun
08-28-2018, 12:07 AM
It has its moments; I actually like "Go" (they got Howe to play that one live later, so it couldn't have been that bad),

"Go" is great! So is "Days Like These", written by someone outside the band. I just don't think Asia has been that memorable in the past decade with the exception of XXX.

aith01
08-28-2018, 11:02 PM
Not to be a downer, but... This thread has made me remember just how great a loss it was when John Wetton passed away. I miss that guy. :(

Adrian
08-29-2018, 01:15 AM
90125. It turned me into a Yes fan, and then into a prog fan. "Owner of a Lonely Heart" has what is still one of my all-time favorite guitar solos.

I'd never heard of Yes or Asia when either album came out. I remember liking the first two songs from the Asia album well enough when I heard them on the radio, but they didn't blow me away. I can still take it or leave it.

GuitarGeek
08-29-2018, 01:38 AM
Not to be a downer, but... This thread has made me remember just how great a loss it was when John Wetton passed away. I miss that guy. :(

Yeah, with the acquisition of the various King Crimson boxsets, I've found myself listening to a lot of the Wetton era stuff, and one really starts to pick up just how great a bass player he was, even if he didn't do much in the way of "virtuoso" playing, he still managed to play a lot of stunning stuff, especially during the improvisational stuff. And of course, he was a great singer too.

One of my favorite Wetton things, though, is his performance on the Uriah Heep song One Way Or Another. I'm still not sure if that's an 8 string he's playing, or if they simply overdubbed a guitar doubling his bass line (same trick Squire used on the studio version of Roundabout), but that's an amazing bass line, and his vocal on that song is great, too. Easily the best song on either of the two Heep albums he played on.

Vic2012
08-29-2018, 07:45 AM
The Asia album was an atrocity: horrible garbage made by musicians who knew better, all to make a buck..

Never bothered with Asia. Loved the album cover and immediately knew it had prog/Yes DNA. Then I heard HOTM on radio and just waved it off. This was back in the early 80s long before I got into prog.

90125 I never thought of buying but I read nothing but glowing reviews here for years. I found a used copy several years ago and gave it a shot. I couldn't stand it. In contrast, I loved Drama.

Now I'm curious to know, being that you are a fan of Kansas. Kansas was my gateway. What are your thoughts on 80s Kansas? I'll admit that the only 80s Kansas album I like (love actually) is Vinyl Confessions. I've owned Audiovision, Power, and In The Spirit of Things in the past but got rid of them. AV had a couple cool songs but overall I didn't like it, and I don't miss it.

Scott Bails
08-29-2018, 11:59 AM
Not to be a downer, but... This thread has made me remember just how great a loss it was when John Wetton passed away. I miss that guy. :(

Yeah, I've been playing a lot of Wetton stuff the last couple days, too.

I keep thinking that I should change my avatar, but I'm really not over it, yet. Not sure why his passing hit me so much more than Squire, Lake or Emerson, but it has.

Staun
08-29-2018, 12:40 PM
Yeah, I've been playing a lot of Wetton stuff the last couple days, too.

I keep thinking that I should change my avatar, but I'm really not over it, yet. Not sure why his passing hit me so much more than Squire, Lake or Emerson, but it has.Keep it Scott, it's cool:up.

JJ88
08-29-2018, 12:41 PM
Emerson's hit me much harder because of the circumstances- as awful as can be. Squire and Wetton I was expecting, sadly...and even Lake I had wondered about because things had been quiet for years.

I think it was great that in Wetton's last 10-15 years, he'd really turned things around for himself and saw some renewed success again with the original Asia. As I said, certainly Phoenix and XXX are albums I still return to. (Omega, a little less.)

Scott Bails
08-29-2018, 12:46 PM
Emerson's hit me much harder because of the circumstances- as awful as can be.

My emotions on Emerson's passing have intensified over the years, and that Robert Berry interview by Anil only made them stronger. So very, very sad.


I think it was great that in Wetton's last 10-15 years, he'd really turned things around for himself and saw some renewed success again with the original Asia. As I said, certainly Phoenix and XXX are albums I still return to. (Omega, a little less.)

I think this is a large part of it. From things I've read, he could be quite difficult to work with, but it sure seems like he turned his life around and redeemed himself during his last few years. And he managed to create more music that I enjoy, so I always admired how difficult it must have been for him.

ThomasKDye
08-29-2018, 12:53 PM
I think this is a large part of it. From things I've read, he could be quite difficult to work with, but it sure seems like he turned his life around and redeemed himself during his last few years. And he managed to create more music that I enjoy, so I always admired how difficult it must have been for him.

Once he kicked the bottle, his interviews lightened up a LOT. I think the three Asia albums he made with Howe reflect that ("Gravitas," too, but man, it's just... not good). They were a nice way to realize the potential the band never realized in their heyday, and as such I really like all three of them.

Scott Bails
08-29-2018, 01:02 PM
I think the three Asia albums he made with Howe reflect that ("Gravitas," too, but man, it's just... not good).

Totally agree. I really wanted to like Gravitas, but it doesn't work for me.

JJ88
08-29-2018, 01:02 PM
My emotions on Emerson's passing have intensified over the years, and that Robert Berry interview by Anil only made them stronger. So very, very sad.



I believe that whatever was behind it, only close friends/colleagues know (for instance, Robert Berry mentions 'other things' beyond worries about those Japanese shows), rather than the tabloid 'trolled to death' nonsense, and it should really stay that way. Just awful that it happened at all.

Here's the interview for anyone who hasn't read it.

https://www.innerviews.org/inner/robert-berry

Mister Triscuits
08-29-2018, 04:53 PM
Here's the interview for anyone who hasn't read it.

https://www.innerviews.org/inner/robert-berry

“You can’t use Keith’s material. We don’t want Keith remembered as a rock and roll keyboard player.” There aren't enough :rolls in the world.

timmy
08-29-2018, 06:01 PM
Yeah, with the acquisition of the various King Crimson boxsets, I've found myself listening to a lot of the Wetton era stuff, and one really starts to pick up just how great a bass player he was, even if he didn't do much in the way of "virtuoso" playing, he still managed to play a lot of stunning stuff, especially during the improvisational stuff. And of course, he was a great singer too.

One of my favorite Wetton things, though, is his performance on the Uriah Heep song One Way Or Another. I'm still not sure if that's an 8 string he's playing, or if they simply overdubbed a guitar doubling his bass line (same trick Squire used on the studio version of Roundabout), but that's an amazing bass line, and his vocal on that song is great, too. Easily the best song on either of the two Heep albums he played on.

^ I agree 100%with everything you said. For me, Wetton's bass sound circa 70s Crim ranks up there with late 60s live-Cream-Jack Bruce Marshall stack tone, early 70s Entwistle PBass/Hiwatts tone, Chris Squire 1980 Drama tone, 1978-82 Geddy Lee tone, and early 70s Rutherford Rickenbacker Hiwatt Shaftesbury DuoFuzz tone.

I think Wetton's PBass Hiwatt sound was similar to Entwistle's but a lot more ballsier!

gearHed289
08-30-2018, 03:46 PM
Yes, I've been listening to a lot of live 70s Crimson this past year, and that bass tone is SO over the top in the best way. "Flying brick wall" indeed! And back on topic, I sang Sole Survivor for my voice teacher last night. :) Definitely missing John.

ytserush
09-15-2018, 04:48 PM
Love both of those Yes and Asia albums.

The only Asia I'm not into is the John Payne era (except for Aura and that's mainly for the guests) and those awful "Now" tracks from the Then and Now album.

I'm into everything else, even the live stuff with Pat Thrall. It seems to work for me if there are at least three of the four original members in the band. Not sure why that is but the music seems to mean more to me when that is the case (Doesn't really matter to me who the guy is that isn't there.)

Fracktured
09-15-2018, 08:26 PM
All four guys in the original Asia I had a lot of respect for and I still do but the album totally left me cold. I think it was the last song in side one that I liked a bit but the rest did nothing for me. 90125 I was thrilled when I heard Yes was back and was ready to hear some great progressive rock again. More fool me. Owner was a BIG letdown for me. The album is good but far from great. I’ve never felt like the Rabin era of Yes was true Yes music it never had that aura like classic Yes.


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yamishogun
09-16-2018, 06:50 PM
I’ve never felt like the Rabin era of Yes was true Yes music it never had that aura like classic Yes.



For anyone over 55, it is impossible to think of the Rabin era as true Yes.

Rajaz
09-17-2018, 02:23 PM
I would consider both of these albums as "phoenix rising from the ashes and fly the eagle" albums that revived a band (Yes) and the birth of another one out of greatness.

But each one came out at very different times:
90125 was released in fall 1983 that gave us a new Yes West with a rejuvenated Anderson and Squire with the youth and creative brilliance of of Trevor Rabin.

A year before, Asia released in May 1982 was also a breath of fresh air for Yes members Howe & Downes joined by the enormous talent of John Wetton that coming from such a prog intensive background like UK and King Crimson showed he had a knack for "poppy" tunes with a Prog touch. Never thought Carl Palmer who praised Bartok so much could play something like Heat of the moment? :-)

But both are milestones and deserve an honorable recognition in the history of Rock music.

gearHed289
09-18-2018, 04:09 PM
For anyone over 55, it is impossible to think of the Rabin era as true Yes.

Phew! Made it by a year.


I would consider both of these albums as "phoenix rising from the ashes and fly the eagle" albums that revived a band (Yes) and the birth of another one out of greatness.

"And from the wreckage, I will arise. Cast the ashes, back in their eyes..."

jamesmanzi
09-19-2018, 11:59 AM
"And from the wreckage, I will arise. Cast the ashes, back in their eyes..."

"The two lines I’ve put in every song I’ve ever sang: spread your wings and fly and you deserve to be a champion"

-Andy Dwyer

Scott Bails
09-19-2018, 01:03 PM
"I'll hear you when you're callin'. I'll catch you when you're fallin'"

I love Wetton, but c'mon, man.

yamishogun
09-19-2018, 01:20 PM
"I'll hear you when you're callin'. I'll catch you when you're fallin'"

I love Wetton, but c'mon, man.

Gives me goose bumps!:cool

spacefreak
09-20-2018, 09:11 AM
I’ve never felt like the Rabin era of Yes was true Yes music it never had that aura like classic Yes.


Correct.

ThomasKDye
09-20-2018, 09:34 AM
"I'll hear you when you're callin'. I'll catch you when you're fallin'"

I love Wetton, but c'mon, man.

I really love Alpha (it came at the right time for me and just clicked) but Wetton was at a lyrical low point for most of it. Seriously, THREE songs have "eye" somewhere in the title. No wonder Dean went for that album image.

helix
09-20-2018, 01:23 PM
I really love Alpha (it came at the right time for me and just clicked) but Wetton was at a lyrical low point for most of it. Seriously, THREE songs have "eye" somewhere in the title. No wonder Dean went for that album image.



me too

it's just a good pop album


I love the hell out of 'Daylight' too. funny that this and fellow b-side 'Ride Easy' are amongst my favorite Asia tracks

Staun
09-20-2018, 01:25 PM
I really love Alpha (it came at the right time for me and just clicked) but Wetton was at a lyrical low point for most of it. Seriously, THREE songs have "eye" somewhere in the title. No wonder Dean went for that album image.As far as covers, Alpha, I think, is one of his best. Better than the first Asia and miles ahead of Astra.

Scott Bails
09-20-2018, 01:27 PM
As far as covers, Alpha, I think, is one of his best. Better than the first Asia and miles ahead of Astra.

Still my favorite of Dean's works.

helix
09-20-2018, 01:30 PM
As far as covers, Alpha, I think, is one of his best. Better than the first Asia and miles ahead of Astra.



I had the Magnetic Storm poster of this on my wall. always thought of it as a polar opposite to Drama

gojikranz
09-20-2018, 01:53 PM
I really love Alpha (it came at the right time for me and just clicked) but Wetton was at a lyrical low point for most of it. Seriously, THREE songs have "eye" somewhere in the title. No wonder Dean went for that album image.

pretty sure the eye thing was supposed to be a kind of loose concept I think nearly every song has some mention of eyes or seeing, I recall a live show where he mentions something to that effect.

jrw
09-20-2018, 04:04 PM
pretty sure the eye thing was supposed to be a kind of loose concept I think nearly every song has some mention of eyes or seeing, I recall a live show where he mentions something to that effect.

Wetton also once said the the original title of Only Time Will Tell (first Asia album) was Starry Eyes.

yamishogun
09-21-2018, 09:00 AM
pretty sure the eye thing was supposed to be a kind of loose concept I think nearly every song has some mention of eyes or seeing, I recall a live show where he mentions something to that effect.

That was Steve Howe's influence. He told the others his condition for joining Asia: "I don't want to play one more damn song with a river or stream in it. Anything else is fine - just no rivers or streams."

iguana
09-21-2018, 09:18 AM
That was Steve Howe's influence. He told the others his condition for joining Asia: "I don't want to play one more damn song with a river or stream in it. Anything else is fine - just no rivers or streams."

:lol

and, again, in 2006: “john, can we please not do ‘jane’ from that album of yours?”

miamiscot
03-01-2019, 11:47 AM
Was Asia Kate Dillon wearing an Asia tee shirt on Project Runway All Stars the other night?

You decide!!!

12768

gearHed289
03-01-2019, 03:28 PM
Was Asia Kate Dillon wearing an Asia tee shirt on Project Runway All Stars the other night?

You decide!!!

12768

How did I miss that??? Er, um, I mean... Project what? :D

IMWeasel
03-02-2019, 02:23 PM
So, I've always liked 90125, in fact it was the second Yes album I ever bought. However I only got into the 1st Asia album recently, and I found myself enjoying it quite a bit.
Oh man this means I'm getting old doesnt it?

aith01
03-02-2019, 02:27 PM
So, I've always liked 90125, in fact it was the second Yes album I ever bought. However I only got into the 1st Asia album recently, and I found myself enjoying it quite a bit.
Oh man this means I'm getting old doesnt it?

:lol

Actually, as much as I disliked Asia in my youth -- I listened to their first album a year or two ago and actually really enjoyed it (or most of it). Maybe I'm getting old too! ;)

Fracktured
03-02-2019, 08:41 PM
:lol

Actually, as much as I disliked Asia in my youth -- I listened to their first album a year or two ago and actually really enjoyed it (or most of it). Maybe I'm getting old too! ;)

Or maybe it’s because music these days is so bad that it makes the first Asia album sound good.

Splicer
03-02-2019, 10:13 PM
Between the two of them, 90125 had pleasant surprises and is still highly listenable all the way through. Asia was a disappointment although with a few highlights - "Time Again" being one of them. Might be the last album where Howe played in an aggressive manner.

3RDegree_Robert
03-02-2019, 10:34 PM
Ah, the 2 early 80's Prog albums that almost everyone knew about and/or loved.

I've had this conversation with Tom Brislin (ex-Yes, current Kansas keyboardist) about how the Asia album was out and took the world by storm but then 90125 comes out and it's like so futuristic and the sound is so slick with Trevor Horn hitting it out of the park with all the crazy sonic hooks and all that.

notallwhowander
03-03-2019, 12:10 AM
I like 90125 too. On it's own merits, it stands up.

aith01
03-03-2019, 12:12 AM
^ I agree, it stands on its own really well. 90125 is one of my favorite 80s albums by anyone ever.

3RDegree_Robert
03-03-2019, 12:41 AM
Right. In the pantheon of Yes albums it is an odd bird and doesn't satisfy like the best Yes albums to some extent, but as an "80's album" or a album production feat, it's a red letter bullet pointed release.