What are your stumblig blocks to finishing a song?

[Yodelgoat]

I've been slowly creeping towards completing several songs all at once (long ones - epics). I'm finding that as the songs get closer to being done, I seem to set them on the back burner. Part of it is that I enjoy the writing and creation process so much, that I hate to quit, so instead I move on to something less polished. some of it is that I want to distance myself from "my babies" to be certain that what I'm doing will stand my own test of time. In other words, I want the song to be good enough that after 5 years I wont be embarrassed by it. Some of it is waiting for decent vocal lines that make sense. This plays a huge role in wether I still like a song of mine after a few years. Since its not likely to have a big audience, its important to me that I really like it. I have not finished a song since 2005, but I have been composing and recording constantly. Its either been a pathetic waste of time, or... Well, thats most likely what it will be.

Seriously, one day - (possibly in 2013) I'm going to have a ton of finished music with no place to show it, but understanding my weird hurdles is something that I've only recently uncovered, probably because I'm noticing that I'm spending lots of time working on some fairly close to completed material. Its a little spooky how good it sounds to me. I'll probably finish these tunes just in time for an outbreak of some disease that will hit the planet, which causes everyone to go deaf - or there will be a worldwide edict that only computer generated music will be tolerated.

Of course, there is always a fear that the music may not be all that interesting. Still I have spent countless hours tinkering with birds that may never fly. and I have considered it a joy. Seriously, creating music is far more satisfying to me than any other aspect of music.

I'm probably not the only one not producing music like I used to... So, is there something stopping you?

[progmatist]

For me, it all boils down to one word: "TIME!" I'll get inspired and start coming up with some fairly amazing stuff. Then the responsibilities of life will divert me from that groove. When I have free time again, I'll return to the same project only to find I'm in a different and incompatible groove. I wind up having to scrap the old and start from scratch on the new.

[eporter66]

Time is certainly a factor. The other is how the idea comes to me, I have instances where I hear all the parts in my head and then get to my computer to try to put them down quickly, and then go back and re-record. Other times I get an idea for a "part" or "section" and record that. I usually put my music in whatever form it ends up on my iPod. Then, when the mood strikes me, I will listen to them and see if it sparks any additional ideas to get me towards completion. Unfortunately, most of my songs do not come to me in complete form, so many ideas sit for a long time until something else comes that seems to go with it, or completes the idea.

I do enjoy the writing/creating process as you mentioned. It is funny, because as something sits for awhile, I often go back and dont get the same feeling or inspiration and end up not doing anything more with the particular idea. I don't care so much about how it will sound years later, but how I feel about it at the moment. If it inspires me or just sounds good to me, that's all I need. I can't worry about how it will sound years from now.

I guess my biggest problem is just spending the time to get everything correct. I dont write lyrics - so I just put down the music. I am not much for really producing or putting tons of effects etc... and getting this studio quality return. As long as I get the parts down and they sound reasonably good and get the idea across, I am satisfied. I put my music out for people to hear, and I have gotten some very nice responses, and to me that's more than enough. I am sure people who hear my music might think it stinks, or not very accomplished, and that is fine with me as well. Creating music that I end up being satisified with is something that is good for my soul. Think of it as a hobby, like someone who works on cars, or with wood in their garage or basement, it brings you joy, and in life anything that brings joy must be embraced!

I record/write because I enjoy it just as you stated. So - dont ever feel it's a waste of time, you are getting something out of it just for the enjoyment alone. And putting ideas down and creating music serves much more of a purpose to your own self than vegging in front of a TV for hours each night.

If you post your music to a site, I would like to hear anything you have recorded that you are proud of. If you are interested, I have a few songs posted : http://www.reverbnation.com/ericporter

Thanks,
Eric

[warrplayer]

you haven't finished a song since 2005 despite constantly recording? Can I ask how many songs you finished prior to 2005? In other words, what is your musical background, history, etc. Do you share these works in progress with anyone? I think it is important to get an outside perspective from time to time.

[Yodelgoat]

Oh, well, I've released four CD's/Lp's since 1982. I have a repitoure of well over 50 "Completed" songs. My last CD to release was in 2005 - Called Contra Mantra. Its on Progrock records, though they would have to blow the dust off the covers to show you one. Ive had some hiccups over the years which has prevented me from really trying to finish anything. For one, I dont do Radio friendly music anymore. No reason to write a 3 minute song anymore, never cared much for them to begin with. I also moved and had to build a recording studio - walls and all. I also waisted alot of time trying to "market" the 2005 CD, wich kind of soured me on making more music until I realized I still love creating music, I just dont care for the distributing side of it all.

I do have some stuff on Soundclick. Some has been there forever, I just added an incomplete song and an old demo I have been working lately, only since someone asked:

https://soundcloud.com/#yodelgoat

Thanks for asking...

[spknoevl]

Letting it go at the end. I constantly revisit mixes and tweak and tweak again.

[warrplayer]

Listened to your Soundcloud stuff. Not too shabby! I really don't know what your long term goals might be, so take all this accordingly...
My suggestion ( for what it is worth) is to put aside anything that is more than 50% finished and work on new material. In my experience the more songs one writes the better they get at song writing irregardless of how they feel, what is going on in their personal life, etc. 50 finished songs seems like a lot, but I am guessing that the the best composers are just hitting their stride at that mark. Not to say don't release anything until you have written 50 more! Just that the likelihood is high that most of your ten ten best songs are still ahead of you. Once you have a song's entire structure mapped out what is to be gained by polishing it if you have no concrete plans for it's release? Easy advice to give, but I also find myself revisiting stuff I wrote years ago. It's a habit I am trying hard to break though.

[eporter66]

Yodelgoat - sorry it took me a couple days to get back, thanks for posting a link to your music. You are not kidding about epics, you certainly put together some long pieces of music.

I only listened to "Overture" so far.

I really like the orchestral section that come in after the vocals (3:23), that caught my ear right away. And the section it segues into is good. Always enjoy the piano, like that is addded to the song!

A lot of the guitar (rythym) has a Lifeson feel to it (starting around 13 minutes and into a lot of the song), strumming and then picking out some guitar lines. Very melodic stuff.

Sorry I could not listen to more tonight, but I will back to hear more.

Thanks for posting your music!

Eric

[progeezer]

I have one stumbling block. Lack of talent. While I've been told (for a long time!;)) that I'm a good singer who's versatile, I have no talent whatsoever when it comes to writing.

[No Pride]

Oh man, I want to talk about this subject badly, but I'm out of "fucking around" time today. I'll definitely get back to this thread. I haven't finished a composition since 2004; the longest I've ever gone without doing so... and it's irking the shit out of me! So... be back in a day or two.

[Yodelgoat]

Oh boy! :cool

See? Its perfectly normal to not finish a song for - 9 years? Holy crap, I can see 8, thats understandable, but 9? You got me beat.

[Yodelgoat]

Took down the soundcloud stuff. Every day Im adding to and improving the songs and they are quickly becoming out of date. When I hit a wall, I'll repost with the latest version.

[sonic]

Same boat. I haven't finished a composition since 2008. But I'm working on stuff now so hopefully I'll get a song or 2 done this year. I get caught up in the details and then get tired and the compositions end up on a shelf and then life takes over .... It sure makes you respect people who never stop creating.

[No Pride]

Oh boy! :cool

See? Its perfectly normal to not finish a song for - 9 years? Holy crap, I can see 8, thats understandable, but 9? You got me beat.
:lol Well, the main culprit was the termination of my band, Bad Dog U. I was the founding father and wrote 2/3rds of the material (the keyboard player wrote the other third). The band existed for 18 years and during that time, I never went more than 6 months without completing a new tune, or I should say "composition," because it was all instrumental music and most of it had a lot more going on than "verse/chorus/bridge." I won't bore you by going into the reasons for the band's termination. But without an outlet to publicly display my works (or a budget to record and release new material), I lost much of my will to write. If I was fine with that, I wouldn't have bothered posting on this thread, but I'm not. I'm a pretty good guitar player by most accounts (and I still do that for a living... and as a hobby, playing with jazz and fusion bands), but my tunes were my real pride and joy.

The last piece I tried to write was going well and I had about 3 or 4 minutes worth of music completed, but I came across an obstacle that I couldn't get past. The piece just dead-ended for me; I got to a certain point where I couldn't hear what should happen next. I tried several different things and nothing pleased me. I came up with new sections that sounded nice on their own, but they either didn't fit or made the piece begin to sound like it was becoming a musical version of Leggos. :) I kept going back to it consistently for about a year, but I just couldn't hear where it wanted to go. What I probably should've done was put the tune on ice and started a new one. But I've never worked that way; I never started a new piece until I'd completed the last one I was working on. I eventually got so discouraged that I just stopped trying to write altogether. It's funny, during all those years that I'd been writing music, I always had this fear that I'd lose the ability to do it someday. I told myself that it was an unfounded and irrational fear, but now it has turned out to be a self-fullfilling prophesy. I'd appreciate any suggestions!


Took down the soundcloud stuff. Every day Im adding to and improving the songs and they are quickly becoming out of date. When I hit a wall, I'll repost with the latest version.
Aw, I planned on listening today! :( When we first formed the PE Soundcloud Group, your submission was in the minority of tracks that I liked a lot (outside of the stuff I was already familiar with, Like Polypet, Advent, Helmet of Gnats, etc.). Let us know when you put it back up!

[Yodelgoat]

Just re-mixed some stuff and its less embarrasing now. There were some real clunkers in the last mix. The latest mix has been re-submitted.

By the way, I'm calling this type of music NEO, but I really dont worry too much about how its classified. I used to use the term Pomp, but I dont think its a valid classification anymore.

[sonic]

The last piece I tried to write was going well and I had about 3 or 4 minutes worth of music completed, but I came across an obstacle that I couldn't get past. The piece just dead-ended for me; I got to a certain point where I couldn't hear what should happen next. I tried several different things and nothing pleased me.
Exactly my problem. Only I have about a dozen 2 minute pieces that I haven't looked at in years.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

Two main ones:

1. Getting ideas from my head to paper.
2. The desire to keep tinkering with it...or at least having once tinkered with it, tinkering with it some more.

The first can be solved by time and patience (or someone with good ears whose willing to listen to you whale for awhile). The second is most annoying...in the past most eventually cured themselves, with me finding a way to finish them that I was somewhat satisfied with. But others...

[Yodelgoat]

The one things that rekindled my interest in Completing music was I finally bought a decent guitar ( well, decent to me - a Taylor T5) suddenly music was interesting again. I wonder if some of you wouldnt benefit from perhaps a major purchase or two - Something to get the jiuces flowing again. - Just a thought, and a decadent one at that. When I started playing the T5, all these new ideas came flooding in, and it was fun again, and it kind of ignited my interest in the older material - I want to finish it and clear the pallet for new stuff. Thats the excessive compulsive in me. But if I can keep this up I may have a few hours of what I consider to be acceptable music in a year or two. I finally stopped writing for others and concentrate on what I want to hear. I dont care if its been done before - Ive never been much of a musical revolutionary. I just like to rototill (same ground, stir it up a bit and see what comes out)

[sonic]

The one things that rekindled my interest in Completing music was I finally bought a decent guitar ( well, decent to me - a Taylor T5) suddenly music was interesting again. I wonder if some of you wouldnt benefit from perhaps a major purchase or two - Something to get the jiuces flowing again. - Just a thought, and a decadent one at that.
Always helps. I picked up an old Hohner bass (headless) recently and another effect pedal .... I love twiddling those dials. :lol

[eporter66]

The one things that rekindled my interest in Completing music was I finally bought a decent guitar ( well, decent to me - a Taylor T5) suddenly music was interesting again.

I agree, a new piece of equipment, guitar, effects pedal, whatever can really ignite some creativity. I remember when I bought my first synth (and I am not a keyboard player, I can play chords over something, but that's it), and I think I wrote 3-4 pieces of music just from fiddling around with that synth, and they all developed into songs.

My other problem as to why nothing ever feels complete is that I don't/can't sing. I send my ideas / pieces to my old band mate, and he will try to do something with them vocally, but we are just starting that, so hopefully he can finish some stuff up for me.

It's just fun to create and write, and when an idea gels, it is a really good feeling.

[B D]

The last piece I tried to write was going well and I had about 3 or 4 minutes worth of music completed, but I came across an obstacle that I couldn't get past. The piece just dead-ended for me; I got to a certain point where I couldn't hear what should happen next. I tried several different things and nothing pleased me.

Since you asked for any suggestions, why not consider the piece done? If it doesn't "want" any more parts, maybe it knows best. You might recap what happened at the beginning to bring it to a tidy close, or just end it and surprise the listener (and yourself!)

Bob
www.bdrak.com
http://soundcloud.com/b-d-1

[Yodelgoat]

I had about 20 songs I considered "Done" - but something about the music made me dislike the tune. Well, if you dont like the song, how can you expect anyone else to like it? So I pulled it off the shelf, and tore out everything I didnt like about the song. I was left with roughly half the material - or about 2 minutes worth of decent stuff. Back then I was in the mind set that songs needed a verse,chorus,verse, solo... etc Anyway I shelved what I considered good stuff, - or at least potentially good stuff, and I wrote sequways from part to part and came up with some longer bits that didnt have the expected fluff - Just what I considered "good stuff" since that time I have been constructing songs that revolve around concepts, rather than musical parts that I once considered "belonging together" What I have come up with is a formula for non- formulaic music. I personally really enjoy it, so rather than trying to please others, I'm writing material, that will one day fill my head with strong music with very little "filler" in it. Who cares if its commercially acceptable... or even Prog Acceptable, Its creating musical ideas without trying to meet anyones expectations. Including my own. Hence songs ar over, when the music has no more to say on whatever its been saying Much like a thread here at PE. ( without, hopefully the fluff)

[Mick]

Many songs are "unfinished" because they are not as "perfect" as you thought they would be, however many songs are recorded because they are about as good as they could be at the time... so YES, time is certainly the factor when it comes to "improvements".
Flow, hooks and lyrical content aside, if it ain't right, it ain't done... but as time goes by it'll hit you,
usually when you're thinking outside the box.

[arabicadabra]

Don't laugh - but writing a fitting ending is an issue for me. Fadeouts are occasionally cool, as are held root chords that ring. But c'mon - that's so obvious. Hate big crescendo endings - I guess an actual phrase is my favorite way , especially if it resolves things in some way.

[Yodelgoat]

My solution to ending a song is to not do it. Mine go on forever... Well. 25 minutes.

I have just spent about a week really pushing to get one song ready to "publish" (not planning any releases or anything stupid like that) But how come the songs always sound so different in your head than in reality? It sounds so... weenie compared to what I imagined it. I play it for some people and they say it sounds "awesome!" (most overused, now meaningless word in modern times - in my opinion). But I cant help thinking that if I can just get it to somehow go to eleven.... I will be happy happy happy.. (anyone else hooked on duck dynasty?)

Its not leaving the shop until its shiny....

[digestif]

Stumbling blocks to finishing - for me having the confidence that it's worthwhile to invest the serious amount of time required to complete a recording that will sound on par with the vast array of music already out there. Like others in the thread I love the initial creation so I have a lot of fragments sitting on the idea shelf.

I'd like to post a link to some of my completed prog tunes to get some feedback to help me decide whether I bother releasing a CD - what's the etiquette here - use this musician's board or the main board for that? I do all writing playing recording & mixing myself so I'm short of feedback.

[kayfabe58]

My biggest obstacle in terms of consistent output tends to be my rule of "Not doing what I did the last time"... Stylistically I will keep a continuity going-but I try never to "cover my best ideas" the way many of my heroes do. Listen to Steven Wilson and you will hear his four or five favorite chord changes consistently...Tom Waits has four or five songs that he just alters, stretches, or deconstructs...
I understand that it is unavoidable to some extent=but without making money from my work, I really do avoid the idea of using a good idea to death-thus my limited output (100 songs over the course of 35 years)

[Yodelgoat]

Huh, I'm the opposite about abusing ideas to their full potential. If I'm working a melody/chord construct I like to play with it until its dead. I use different instruments, different tempos, styles, keys, time sigs, until I've heard it about every way I can. Then I take what I like from that and try to move forward. Yes, that is a stumbling block to ever get anything finished, because I cant seem to decide where to take it, so it generally gets mixed in with 2 or 3 other themes, into a huge behemoth, that I happen to enjoy. It extends the creative process, which for me is by far the most enjoyable part of music. I hate to let go. I wonder if Mr Wilson and some of the others you mention are the same way. They still have to release music or they'll never make a payday, for me, that's not an issue, hence I keep digging deeper into the bowels of an idea. Present that idea in Classical, Rock, Prog, acoustic/folk and you pretty well have played it out. I don't do jazz myself although I do enjoy it - you just have to be a much better musician and since I play all my own instruments, I'd rather just respect the genre rather than butcher it. Country is out - except for perhaps a bit of rockabilly.

Lyrically I kind of have one general theme I cant seem/have no desire to get away from. Its what interests me the most. Since I don't have fans to captivate, I don't see that as an issue. I try to use the general subject (the concept of good versus evil - tired and totally played, I agree) to bind works together into one concept. Isn't it usually the lyrics or subject that make a concept album a concept? The music can be all over the place, but the subject generally is the glue. - Are there concept albums that don't have lyrics?

Ramble on..

[No Pride]

My biggest obstacle in terms of consistent output tends to be my rule of "Not doing what I did the last time"... Stylistically I will keep a continuity going-but I try never to "cover my best ideas" the way many of my heroes do. Listen to Steven Wilson and you will hear his four or five favorite chord changes consistently...Tom Waits has four or five songs that he just alters, stretches, or deconstructs...
That's one of my biggest obstacles too. I just don't want to repeat myself... even though everybody does it to varying degrees, even the great classical composers. Still, I don't want to allow myself to reuse the same ideas I've already used in other tunes, no matter how craftily I can disguise them. We all have certain chords types, progressions, rhythmic figures and tricks that we tend to gravitate to, but I want to push myself away from the ones that I've bled dry and find something different. Or don't write at all... which is what I've been doing lately.

Jeez, I should've been a pop songwriter. So many of them are fine with using something that's been done to death (like the I-V-vi-IV chord progression) without a second thought. I can't... or I should say won't.

[kayfabe58]

That's one of my biggest obstacles too. I just don't want to repeat myself... even though everybody does it to varying degrees, even the great classical composers. Still, I don't want to allow myself to reuse the same ideas I've already used in other tunes, no matter how craftily I can disguise them. We all have certain chords types, progressions, rhythmic figures and tricks that we tend to gravitate to, but I want to push myself away from the ones that I've bled dry and find something different. Or don't write at all... which is what I've been doing lately.

Jeez, I should've been a pop songwriter. So many of them are fine with using something that's been done to death (like the I-V-vi-IV chord progression) without a second thought. I can't... or I should say won't.

Over the years I've noticed that we frequently agree on musical philosophies...so i'm not surprised that we approach composing with the same caution.

[Yodelgoat]

Unfortunately we live in a world where the ship has sailed on the concept of producing music for "consumers". That's not completely true, but you have to feel for artists who are at this point, trying to gain a financial foothold in the world of music. So much is out there, great stuff! but totally free for the taking - because that's what the public expects. We're all just a group of close friends, sharing our bits and bytes with our fellow music lovers without contemplating the eventuality of our ways.

Its not that I'm cynical. but, yes. I am. You have to really love your stuff enough to convince yourself that you will prevail against the headwinds of a fracked up culture. Even many of those who claim to be "friends" of musicians, are sold on the idea that they have the right to access your music, without any responsibility to you. Its the free market at its worst. "Convince me that I should give you my money when I can simply grab it for nothing". You face a tough uphill battle, and unless you are a really patient person, who loves making music simply for the joy of it, it, you may find yourself in lonely waters.

Please, keep us posted on your struggle... And the best of luck. I want people to buck the current trend.

[kayfabe58]

So what are every bodies favorite personal cliches? For me it's the substitution for a tonic chord (C for example) with a Flat vi (Ab or <Flat vi rel minor Fm>)...in a minor key it would be akin to Am using Fmaj7(Dm9) as a sub.

[No Pride]

So what are every bodies favorite personal cliches?
I seem to love ascending triads on top with descending bass notes beneath them. Here's an example (I've used this chord progression in two tunes; time to let it go!):

G/D, A/C#, Bb/C, C/Bb, D/A, E/G#, F/G, G/F, A/E

It's a good modulation tool; each four chord pattern leads you to a key that's a fifth above the key you started with. So you can modulate from one key to whatever other one you want, depending on how long you want to extend the pattern.

Like many composers, I like using pedal point (various chords over a constant bass note). Here's one from a tune I wrote a long time ago:

Bb/C, Amin/C, E/C, Gmin/C, D/C, Fmin6/C ... (then I moved to Amin with a ii-V7) Bmin7b5, E7#5, Amin7

I also love first inversion chords! one of my faves is C,D,G,B with an E in the bass.

Just a few tricks that I've (over)used. :)

[Dean Watson]

I give myself deadlines. I'm on my 3rd CD now and want it out by January. That is my deadline. I find that when I have an end date it forces me to draw a line in the sand and say 'this one's finished!'. Does this prevent me from ever writing the perfect piece? I'm not sure, perhaps, but I do know that I will contiue to write for some time to come, so eventually that 'perfect' piece will be written, and for now 'generally' speaking, my music has been well liked, I'm sure yours is too ( will listen this weekend btw! ). You just have to say 'enough is enough!'.

[Dean Watson]

So what are every bodies favorite personal cliches? For me it's the substitution for a tonic chord (C for example) with a Flat vi (Ab or <Flat vi rel minor Fm>)...in a minor key it would be akin to Am using Fmaj7(Dm9) as a sub.

Cluster chords! I love chords that include the third, forth and 5th all ( of course ) beside each other. Heck, even throw in the second above - and you're basically sounding 1,2,3,4 and 5 all at the same time. You can even go up and add 6 and 7 where applicable. I just like lots of notes really close to each other. I almost never use triads or any 3 note chord in my music.

[No Pride]

Cluster chords! I love chords that include the third, forth and 5th all ( of course ) beside each other. Heck, even throw in the second above - and you're basically sounding 1,2,3,4 and 5 all at the same time. You can even go up and add 6 and 7 where applicable. I just like lots of notes really close to each other. I almost never use triads or any 3 note chord in my music.
I like chords with a lot of notes in them too, Dean! But I'll admit, I generally don't use more than three notes right next to each other. I mean... well, here's a perfect example:


I also love first inversion chords! one of my faves is C,D,G,B with an E in the bass.


That chord has a B,C,D and E in it and if it was close-voiced, it'd be a cluster, but with octave displacement of two of the notes, it has a whole different character. I think a lot of Holdsworth's chords are like that; small intervals like 2nds combined with big intervals like 5ths.

At any rate, I love your music and I feel a certain harmonic kinship with the way you write. Actually, there are many moments in your music that make me think, "Damn; I wish I had come up with that!" :)

[No Pride]

Speaking of clusters and octave displacement, here's a guitar chord that's completely useless in anything other than atonal music.

(low) E string: 6th fret
A string: open
D string: 6th fret
G string: open
B string: 7th fret
E string: muted

What we've got here is almost half of a chromatic scale (and if you want to add a "hammer on" with your right hand index finger on the first fret of the high E string, you'll have a complete half). Sometimes when somebody asks me to play a chord for them to tune to, I'll play it just to be a smartass. :bad

[Dean Watson]

I love your music and I feel a certain harmonic kinship with the way you write.

Likewise Ernie, likewise!

[fictionmusic]

1805

here is a cluster chord that has E, F, F#, G, G#, A, although only the F#,G and G# are next door to each other. Like many cluster chords of this type they sound great but are impractical to grab quickly.

[Dean Watson]

Never mind the chord, I gotta say, that's one sweet-ass looking tele!

[fictionmusic]

recently sold...beyond using for posing with cluster chords, i never used it much....not true actually, it sounded great too, but I needed the cash so away it went.

[B D]

I can see that a series of chords like that would be a little impractical to jump to in a song, but don't forget the world's most dangerous chord, which I demonstrate for you here.... (you took the photo too!)

X MAJOR:

1809

[Mikhael]

But is the green cable necessary?

[No Pride]

recently sold...beyond using for posing with cluster chords, I never used it much
That's funny! :lol

I can't count how many times I've traded totally usable and satisfying gear for cash. And it wasn't for anything interesting like drugs either; just your typical starving artist crap.


I can see that a series of chords like that would be a little impractical to jump to in a song, but don't forget the world's most dangerous chord, which I demonstrate for you here.... (you took the photo too!)

X MAJOR:

1809
Being incapable of seriously posing for a camera, there's photos of me fingering that exact chord! :) Can't say I've found any other practical use for it though.

[fictionmusic]

I can see that a series of chords like that would be a little impractical to jump to in a song, but don't forget the world's most dangerous chord, which I demonstrate for you here.... (you took the photo too!)

X MAJOR:

1809

great chord....wasn't there a facial expression that went with that? Much like the wah-wah face, the X-chord face kinda thing...

[B D]

great chord....wasn't there a facial expression that went with that? Much like the wah-wah face, the X-chord face kinda thing...

You might be thinking of this: http://www.802701.org/photos/main.php?g2_itemId=6101

[fictionmusic]

ahh...yes indeed, not the X-xhord face but the "Two-Fisted Guitar God Face". Good times!

[Yodelgoat]

Post your material in soundcloud.com, and then send us a link. I for one would enjoy hearing PE musicians stuff - completed or not. I think there is a PE group, but they only allow one song post. I posted there a couple years ago, but haven't bothered to change anything. I'm not sure how anyone else feels, but if its not for sale yet and you really would like some input, oh yeah, - but I'm not the best person to take advice from.

[Dean Watson]

You can hear finished tunes, and small samples of my stuff at http://soundcloud.com/dean-watson

[Yodelgoat]

That's serious stuff Dean! Thanks for the link. I just listened to "At Odds" - It really whetted my appetite for Jazz Fusion. I've stayed away from it for the past few years simply because my want list is so full just with prog. But if the rest of your material is like "At Odds" I'll likely want to buy it. I have a rather extensive library of music from musicians I've met online. and this would be a welcome addition.

I like being able to put something on, and have people ask me what it is, and I can tell them its a guy I know from... A more personal approach to music, compared with "Its the new Deep Purple album".

[Dean Watson]

Thanks! Trust me, both my CD's are like that. This one is from my upcoming CD "Fantasizer!" which will be released in January.

[Dean Watson]

Check out "No Pride" ( Ernie ) if you like this kind of stuff! We write the same ....

[Yodelgoat]

I will do that.. I just have to keep my head in the prog game. But yeah, Ernie- I have heard about your music, and I'd like very much to hear what you have done.

[No Pride]

Check out "No Pride" ( Ernie ) if you like this kind of stuff! We write the same ....
Thanks, Dean! (Dean and I have sort of established a mutual admiration society. :) I think his stuff has a little more metal in it and mine has a little more jazz, but we're basically cut from the same cloth... except his stuff is awesome!)


I will do that.. I just have to keep my head in the prog game. But yeah, Ernie- I have heard about your music, and I'd like very much to hear what you have done.
Well, Soundcloud removed my submissions from my band's album because they were concerned about the label it was on owning rights. They don't (in fact the only thing they ever did was give me a bar code), but I never got around to correcting the problem. Anyhow, somebody posted a few tracks from the album on YT. This one's the opener (disclaimer: YT's compression screwed up the dynamics; the first minute is supposed to be softer than what follows, but the limiting here made the soft parts louder and the loud parts softer. :( But you'll get the general idea):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oakFPTh0JEA

[Yodelgoat]

Nice! I'll squeeze one from each of you into my collection and we'll go from there. When is Fantasizer being released?

FYI, I just bought the 3 disk set of Glass Hammers Inconsolable secret, so I have to wait a couple weeks for new expenditures.

[Dean Watson]

Yodelgoat,

Thanks for your interest in 'our' music! Fantasizer! won't be released until January at the latest, "Unsettled" and "Imposing Elements" are currently available - all over, bandcamp, CD Baby, Amazon, and other retailers.

Thank you!

[No Pride]

Yodelgoat,

Thanks for your interest in 'our' music! Fantasizer! won't be released until January at the latest, "Unsettled" and "Imposing Elements" are currently available - all over, bandcamp, CD Baby, Amazon, and other retailers.

Thanks, indeed!

My band's (Bad Dog U) one and only album can be found at CD Baby and iTunes. Greg Walker at Syn-phonic records may still have copies too, I don't know.

Dean, looking forward to "Fantasizer!"

[Polypet]

Thanks, Dean! (Dean and I have sort of established a mutual admiration society. :) I think his stuff has a little more metal in it and mine has a little more jazz, but we're basically cut from the same cloth... except his stuff is awesome!)


Well, Soundcloud removed my submissions from my band's album because they were concerned about the label it was on owning rights. They don't (in fact the only thing they ever did was give me a bar code), but I never got around to correcting the problem. Anyhow, somebody posted a few tracks from the album on YT. This one's the opener (disclaimer: YT's compression screwed up the dynamics; the first minute is supposed to be softer than what follows, but the limiting here made the soft parts louder and the loud parts softer. :( But you'll get the general idea):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oakFPTh0JEA

no EXCEPT about it, Ernie. your stuff is pretty awesome too, imho :)

K

P.S: really enjoyed your tracks too, Dean :up

[Yodelgoat]

So, No more Bad Dog U releases planned? - Are you still recording?

[No Pride]

no EXCEPT about it, Ernie. your stuff is pretty awesome too, imho :)

I'm sure I've said it before, but coming from you, that means a lot to me, Kim! Thanks again!


So, No more Bad Dog U releases planned? - Are you still recording?
Nope. I euthanized BDU not too long after the album came out. I don't want to bore you (or anybody else) with the details; suffice to say that it was getting harder and harder to keep it going for various reasons. But the band was around for almost 18 years and in our heyday, we were fairly active (in the Chicago area anyway); playing at least once a month, sometimes more than that. I have a guy converting some old cassettes of the band (some live and some in the studio) to digital files and if it doesn't sound too horrible, I might consider releasing something archival. We had plenty of tunes that didn't make it to the album.

I do record for others sometimes, but I haven't recorded any of my own stuff in almost 10 years... which bums me out, now that I think of it!

[kid_runningfox]

Principle stumbling blocks to the finishing of a song? In my case it's a distinct lack of time to work on music, coupled with the attention span of a gnat. For example, I've been working on a new 12-stirng piece recently, where I'm trying to give it a Bach-like quality through the use of shifting bass-notes over higher octave pedal tones. Every time I sit down to work on it I manage to improvise beautiful sounding passages that I'm then incapable of reproducing. Recording it wouldn't help, as I'm far from convinced I'd be able to remember the fingerings I'd used when playing. I could film myself, but then I'd have to suffer the ignominity of watching it back. The piece is slowly evolving, but it's taking an absolute age...

[klothos]

Stumbling block? Kick Drum mixing........I have been using a Yamaha Kick Drum Sample (two actually) and I want it to punch more....but I keep getting it sounding like a Metallica bass drum and I am not happy with it...... I want "Click" in the bass drum, just not like Lars...I have tried shaping the EQ (both Parametric and Para-graphic) a number of ways and I am not achieving the desired result. Conversely, I have tried a few other samples, including a Sonor kick from a kit I downloaded years ago and an early 70s Ludwig kick from that sampled set that his been floating around the internet since the dawn of time and I still cant seem to get what I want there either. What is the secret to getting "punch/stab" in a kick drum without sounding like Metallica?......Maybe you guys can help, Here is here is a quick Rough Mix of something I am working on (...I'll spare you the eight minute length of the song :lol ).....Everything is programmed BUT the bass parts, which I played...No loops either: just layers of multi-samples, including the guitars which are also multi-layered one shots with a sample/strum guitar VSTi mixed in. The drums are a layered Yamaha sample one-shot set
(Thanks in advance)
http://hc.bloodyvelvet.com/files/126/TOFSPartialBassWorx001DRFa.mp3

[Dean Watson]

Maybe you want to get a sample of the beater hitting the drumhead and combine the two into a new sample.

[klothos]

Maybe you want to get a sample of the beater hitting the drumhead and combine the two into a new sample.


Wow! that is not only an excellent idea but a <forehead> slap for myself: just like mic'ing an acoustic bass drum from both the inside and out. Thanks!

[Yodelgoat]

I tried for six months to get a good acoustic Kick sound - including using a 10 inch woofer as a mic to try to beef up the low end. I finally wound up triggering it through my DM5 drum module. Where there are about 20 different kicks to choose from. I found a few I could work with, and I'm happy, but I still have this dream in the back of my mind, of being able to just use the kick. It seems to be the hardest thing to get right. It always seems to need so much EQ'ing that its almost out of bounds...