New Turntable Old vinyl

[strawberrybrick]

I'm enjoying my new turntable, but what I'm enjoying even more is that copy of Yes Fragile I picked up in 1973. Despite the surface noise, it still sounds fantastic!

271

[rapidfirerob]

Nice. What kind of turntable is it? I still use my old direct drive Technics.

[strawberrybrick]

Pro-ject Debut Carbon, with Ortofon 2M Blue (which was an upgrade). My "70s stereo" has an old Technics direct-drive!

[Jerjo]

I went for almost 15 years without a table and it was quite the revelation when I got one again. And it turned out a lot of albums in my collection didn't have a lot of surface noise: Donald Fagen, Sting, Pink Floyd, ever a couple Zeppelins.

[Reach]

Sweet. I have a Rega P3 that I use occasionally.

[Lopez]

I still play a lot of my vinyl. I have a manual Gemini turntable. It's a brand generally used by DJs. I figured if that's the case it should be heavy duty enough for me and besides it was (relatively) cheap. Sounds and plays very good to me. I still enjoy the old vinyl. One of these day's I'll get a vinyl cleaning machine so I won't have to wipe the disks on my sleeve or sponge them down in the kitchen. I used to have a Technics linear-tracking turntable. One of the worst pieces of poo I've ever bought. Skipped on almost every record I played on it even after making the correct adjustments. A repair shop I brought it to wouldn't even take it in trade, so I gave it to him for nothing. Don't know if you can buy linear-tracking turntables anymore, but never again for this boy.

[strawberrybrick]

One of these day's I'll get a vinyl cleaning machine so I won't have to wipe the disks on my sleeve or sponge them down in the kitchen.

I wonder about those as well. Will it really improve the sound of my vinyl? How audible is the "gunk" on a record?

[Lopez]

I wonder about those as well. Will it really improve the sound of my vinyl? How audible is the "gunk" on a record?

A friend has the entry level VPI machine (over $600.00) and he swears by it. Says he's hearing things he never heard before. Another friend in the used-record business says they are not worth it. A little alcohol in a spray bottle of water and a lint-free cloth is all you need.

Once I tried the trick of using wood glue on the disk and then peeling it off. The record was indeed immaculate from doing so, but there were so many tiny shards of dried glue around from the peeling that I'll never do that again.

[Jymbot]

I have a Nitty Gritty machine. Ive maintained on many a fool-audio forum that, yes, these vacuum machines make the record LOOK clean, but in my experience - and Im speaking of cleaning a LOT of lps - you only get audible difference on 10 to 20% (tops) of the records cleaned.

As to linear turntable, I have 8 different turntables only one of which is linear. Its a Fisher and, next to an old Sherman tank German Dual, I use it the most. It has never failed me.

[strawberrybrick]

Here's a neat little vinyl app... anyone going to pick these up?

http://www.thebeatles.com/vinyl/

[enpdllp]

I wonder about those as well. Will it really improve the sound of my vinyl?

Yes, they will improve the sound.


How audible is the "gunk" on a record?

It depends on how much "gunk" is on the record.

If most of your record buys are from the used bin, a record cleaning machine is a must. Less necessary, but still helpful and effective, if your records were purchased new and/or they are handled with extra care. There are quite a few options on record cleaning machines, anywhere from just under a hundred dollars to a couple thousand dollars. You can also build your own record cleaning machine for about $50.

There are also many types of cleaning solutions out there, plus you can make your own. Making your own cleaning solution will save you a good chunk of money, especially if you have a large record collection. If you are making your own, make sure you are not using rubbing alcohol or a lower than 90% pure isopropyl alcohol in your solution. Go to a chemical supply store to buy the isopropyl alcohol and distilled water.

Below I am providing links with the most recommended entry level record cleaning machines and a DIY record cleaning machine:

Spin Clean (http://www.spincleanrecordwasher.com/) (100% Manual, no vacuum)

KAB EV-1 (http://www.kabusa.com/ev1.htm) (Manual, you need to provide a vacuum cleaner)

DIY Record Cleaning Machine (http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/cleaner/cleaner.html) (Recipe for record cleaning solution is included on the link)

[strawberrybrick]

yes, these vacuum machines make the record LOOK clean, but in my experience - and Im speaking of cleaning a LOT of lps - you only get audible difference on 10 to 20% (tops) of the records cleaned.


That's my experience too. I've manually cleaned albums all my life, but rarely do I notice that much difference!

[strawberrybrick]

Go to a chemical supply store to buy the isopropyl alcohol and distilled water.


Spin Clean (http://www.spincleanrecordwasher.com/) (100% Manual, no vacuum)





What's the mix on the solution? Do have experience with the Spin clean?

[PeterG]

Old turntable (Acoustic Research EB101), old vinyl - currently spinning "Marching Out" the 1985 offering from Yngwie's Rising Force.

[claycorn]

291

[enpdllp]

What's the mix on the solution?

The blend on the DIY link is one part isopropyl alcohol, three parts distilled water and a drop of surfacant. Other blends are listed on the following link (http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/fluids.html). The previous link also has a few good tips on general record care. FWIW, NEVER use any kind of alcohol solution to clean 78's. Distilled water by itself will do the job. If you do not want to make your own solution, one of the best out there is made by The Disc Doctor (http://discdoc.com/).


Do have experience with the Spin clean?

Not personally, but many folks in the audio community rave on this record cleaning machine. Some people use the Spin Clean to get the nasty gunk out of their records and then run it through a Nitty Gritty, VPI or other vacuum record cleaning machine for a final clean-up.

BTW, If you are not using a vacuum record cleaning machine, make sure the record is completely dry before placing it back on the sleeve. Not doing so might be risking mold growth on the record and that one is very hard to get rid off.

[progholio]

great thread.
i scored a Technics SL1200 from craigslist with an average grade Shure cartridge for $100 that was virtually factory new (the dude was thrilled to get rid of it!). i am completely thrilled with this setup as it is pretty much bulletproof and this cartridge seems very forgiving of my scratchiest records.

for those of you wanting back into vinyl these tables are a great buy and usally very cheap in the used market.


The blend on the DIY link is one part isopropyl alcohol, three parts distilled water and a drop of surfacant. Other blends are listed on the following link (http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/fluids.html). The previous link also has a few good tips on general record care. FWIW, NEVER use any kind of alcohol solution to clean 78's. Distilled water by itself will do the job. If you do not want to make your own solution, one of the best out there is made by The Disc Doctor (http://discdoc.com/).


thanks for the tip, i'm going to have to look up the Doctor, it looks like he's in my backyard.

i am currently using my old 70's vintage Discwasher (still pristine) brush with an almost full bottle of fluid - but since i've been accumulating used vinyl like crazy this won't last long.

[georob]

Anyone have any recommendations for purchase of a new turntable/cartridge setup for less than $1000?
I'm looking for "where to buy" (online, of course...nobody stocks these anymore) and "what to buy".

Thanks in advance for anyg advice.

[rcarlberg]

Here's a neat little vinyl app... anyone going to pick these up?

http://www.thebeatles.com/vinyl/I downloaded a vinyl app for my iPhone, it allows me to play LPs, 7" singles and 12" singles on it. Been looking for a cassette app without success. Anyone know of one?

[rottersclub]

Interesting thread. I actually just replaced an Ortofon 2M Blue on my vintage Rega Planar 3. I found the Ortofon a little too bright and forward, but it's possible it was a function of the setup. Anyway, I'm thrilled with the Dynavector DV-20X2H cartridge and matching Dynavector P75-MK 2 Phono Preamplifier. The sound is much more relaxed and involving. Another difference I find is the new gear is much more forgiving of clicks, pops and ambient surface noise.

I also bought the low-end Nitty Gritty record cleaner a few years ago when I was resurrecting my TT, as I buy the majority of my vinyl at used shops. I figured the ~$400 was a good investment as I my record collection is getting up there.

[José Costa]

I had a Pioneer that I bought for €20, but today I bought a 70's Dual 1210 turntable, totally reconstructed by a sound engineer

It cost €130 but it's really amazing :D

[progholio]

Anyone have any recommendations for purchase of a new turntable/cartridge setup for less than $1000?
I'm looking for "where to buy" (online, of course...nobody stocks these anymore) and "what to buy".

Thanks in advance for anyg advice.

if it has to be new and you want bang for the buck - this Audio Technica LP120 is basically a chinese clone of a Technics SL-1200 with a few extra bells/whistles that add convenience:

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT-LP120-USB-Direct-Drive-Professional-Turntable/dp/B002S1CJ2Q/ref=pd_cp_e_0

add a Denon DL-110 cartridge (providing you have a preamp that can handle a moving coil) and you're in for around $350

-or- if you want to keep it on the cheap the Shure M97xE cartrige does a fine job and can be had for around $60 if you shop around, it sounds good and if you have a lot of scratchy records theres no sense using a real high grade cartridge.

if it were me i would shop around used, vintage gear is cool and most people don't give a rat's ass about turntables.

i'm sure others will chime in with different setups, 1000 bucks is a pretty decent budget.

[Jubal]

Pro-ject Debut Carbon, with Ortofon 2M Blue (which was an upgrade). My "70s stereo" has an old Technics direct-drive!
Very nice. I have the Audio-Technica knock off of the Technics 1200, and that same Ortofon 2M Blue. Bass is solid, and the highs are very detailed without being brittle or harsh. I would bet your Pro-Ject has much less rumble and slightly better tracking.

[OptiquesJeff]

Vinyl ROCKS! My main table is a Dual 714Q with a Shure V15 Type 4, cost me around $40 at a yard sale.

[enpdllp]

Anyone have any recommendations for purchase of a new turntable/cartridge setup for less than $1000?
I'm looking for "where to buy" (online, of course...nobody stocks these anymore) and "what to buy".

Thanks in advance for anyg advice.

The best places to buy turntables on the web are The Needle Doctor (http://www.needledoctor.com/) and Music Direct (http://www.musicdirect.com/). There are plenty of choices for turntables under $1,000. FWIW, all of my recommendations below are belt driven since I tend to prefer them to direct drive turntables:

Pro-Ject Debut ($399)
Rega RP1 ($445, Plenty of mods and upgrades available)
Pro-Ject Debut USB ($499, same as the Pro-Ject Debut, but with USB output in case you want to transfer vinyl to digital)
Music Hall MMF 2.2 ($449)
Pro-Ject Xpression III ($699)
Music Hall MMF 5.1 ($875)
Rega RP3 ($895, Plenty of mods and upgrades available)

BTW, if the turntable you purchase comes with a dust cover, listen to some familiar track at medium to high volume with and without the dust cover to find out which way it sounds better. Depending on the type of rack you have the turntable, where the turntable is located in relation to the speakers and the type of flooring in your listening area, the dust cover might work as a microphone and introduce some unwanted low frequencies into the sound. If that is the case, you can remove the dust cover while playing and place it back when you finish your listening session.

[aplodon]

Anyone have any recommendations for purchase of a new turntable/cartridge setup for less than $1000?

I'm not an expert on this, but I think it may be a good idea to spend some money on a good pickup.

I now have a Pro-ject Xperience


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qCXYmyUnGYg/RXc_kpxeuaI/AAAAAAAAACg/lqT_Yu6Dwkw/s400/pro-ject.jpg

and an Ortofon Rondo Red

http://www.ortofon.com/images/stories/cartridges/rondo/rondo_red_230pix.png


Don't remember exactly what I payed for it, but I think it may be a bit over your budget (but I have no idea of the prices over there). Anyway. I think about half of the price was for the pickup, which is my point.

It sounds great, anyway. I used to have an old Micro Seiki from the 70s, with a budget pickup from Audio Technica, so the comparison may be a bit unfair.

I did, however, have a Pro-ject Debut in my house for testing before I went for the more expensive alternative. The Debut was a big disappointment. I had heard good things about it, but it sounded much worse than my old 70s turntable. I tried the Debut with the same pickup as I had on my old turntable, and also with the one that came with it. Both setups sounded quite harsh and brittle, a lot worse than my old setup. Not at all the sound you expect from vinyl.

The Xperience/Rondo Red combination, on the other hand, was a big step up from my old equipment. I don't know if, or how much of, the difference between the P-j Debut and the P-j Xperience setup depends on the turntable itself and how much depends on the pickup, but I would assume it's mostly the pickup. Can't imagine the difference between two turntables of the same brand being that big, even though there is a certain difference in price. Hence my conclusion to spend a good deal of your budget on the pickup. Maybe some more Xperienced vinyl users can comfirm or neglect this.

[strawberrybrick]

Very nice. I have the Audio-Technica knock off of the Technics 1200, and that same Ortofon 2M Blue. Bass is solid, and the highs are very detailed without being brittle or harsh. I would bet your Pro-Ject has much less rumble and slightly better tracking.

I'm also using a Musical Fidelity V-LPS phono stage. What I notice the most about the turntable is that shitty pressings just absolutely sound shitty, and great pressings (like that original Yes Fragile Atlantic SD7211) sound marvelous!

FYI to others, The Pro-ject Debut Carbon is an upgraded version, with a new tonearm, upgraded suspension, larger platter, and comes with an Ortofon 2M Red.

http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debutcarbon&cat=turntables&lang=en

[Jubal]

I'm also using a Musical Fidelity V-LPS phono stage. What I notice the most about the turntable is that shitty pressings just absolutely sound shitty, and great pressings (like that original Yes Fragile Atlantic SD7211) sound marvelous!

FYI to others, The Pro-ject Debut Carbon is an upgraded version, with a new tonearm, upgraded suspension, larger platter, and comes with an Ortofon 2M Red.

http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debutcarbon&cat=turntables&lang=en

A good phono preamp would probably provide substantial improvement to what I have. I use the built in (the turntable has a switch for USB or standard phono output) preamp.
BTW, what color did you go with on the Pro-ject?

[strawberrybrick]

A good phono preamp would probably provide substantial improvement to what I have. I use the built in (the turntable has a switch for USB or standard phono output) preamp.
BTW, what color did you go with on the Pro-ject?

White, please look at the picture in the OP. The guys at the store were all oohhing-ahhing about it!

[enpdllp]

I'm not an expert on this, but I think it may be a good idea to spend some money on a good pickup.

I now have a Pro-ject Xperience

click for larger image:

294

and an Ortofon Rondo Red

http://www.ortofon.com/images/stories/cartridges/rondo/rondo_red_230pix.png


Don't remember exactly what I payed for it, but I think it may be a bit over your budget (but I have no idea of the prices over there). Anyway. I think about half of the price was for the pickup, which is my point.

It sounds great, anyway. I used to have an old Micro Seiki from the 70s, with a budget pickup from Audio Technica, so the comparison may be a bit unfair.

I did, however, have a Pro-ject Debut in my house for testing before I went for the more expensive alternative. The Debut was a big disappointment. I had heard good things about it, but it sounded much worse than my old 70s turntable. I tried the Debut with the same pickup as I had on my old turntable, and also with the one that came with it. Both setups sounded quite harsh and brittle, a lot worse than my old setup. Not at all the sound you expect from vinyl.

The Xperience/Rondo Red combination, on the other hand, was a big step up from my old equipment. I don't know if, or how much of, the difference between the P-j Debut and the P-j Xperience setup depends on the turntable itself and how much depends on the pickup, but I would assume it's mostly the pickup. Can't imagine the difference between two turntables of the same brand being that big, even though there is a certain difference in price. Hence my conclusion to spend a good deal of your budget on the pickup. Maybe some more Xperienced vinyl users can comfirm or neglect this.

The comparison between the Debut and Xperience is quite unfair. Very different designs (Platter construction, motors, pulley system, etc.), plus the Xperience is about three times the price of the Debut.

It is always a good idea to spend some money on a pickup for your turntable, but not at the expense of the turntable. Although it sounds good to buy a great pickup for your turntable, I think it is better to buy the best turntable you could on your price range and a good solid pickup than an OK turntable and a pricier pickup. An expensive pickup will extract more data from your records, but it will also show up the limitations of your lesser turntable to a greater degree. The more expensive turntables usually have quieter motors, better isolation between platter and motor, better bearings, etc. Over spending on a pickup is like buying Pirelli tires for a Yugo. The Pirelli's will have more grip than the original tires, but the car's suspension will limit the extra grip from the Pirelli's.

[rcarlberg]

Vinyl ROCKS!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2471/3924814560_fccce1f831.jpg

[claycorn]

i have a sanyo tp 1005 very nice model304

[jazzcat]

I'm very happy with my Rega.

[enpdllp]

I'm very happy with my Rega.

Which model you have? Any after market upgrades?

[tom unbound]

I used to have a Technics linear-tracking turntable.

Ah, yes. I had one for years. I used to call it my 'Kenner Close-and-Play'. Never gave me a bit of trouble.

[strawberrybrick]

It is always a good idea to spend some money on a pickup for your turntable, but not at the expense of the turntable. Over spending on a pickup is like buying Pirelli tires for a Yugo. The Pirelli's will have more grip than the original tires, but the car's suspension will limit the extra grip from the Pirelli's.

Yep, overspending in general isn't a good idea. I bought the Carbon Debut because it was in line with the rest of my system, and it's an updated model that improved what was already a good product; I don't think I could justify spending $1000+ on a turntable, considering my phono-preamp (Musical Fidelity), receiver (Marantz)and listening room!

That said, I recently upgraded my main speakers (PSB Synchrony B) so things are sound pretty darn good!

[rapidfirerob]

Yep, overspending in general isn't a good idea. I bought the Carbon Debut because it was in line with the rest of my system, and it's an updated model that improved what was already a good product; I don't think I could justify spending $1000+ on a turntable, considering my phono-preamp (Musical Fidelity), receiver (Marantz)and listening room!

That said, I recently upgraded my main speakers (PSB Synchrony B) so things are sound pretty darn good!
I don't have money to upgrade my turntable. I have an old Onkyo receiver that sounds fine, and still love my JBL L40s. This system is in our bedroom, so anything more would be overkill really. I listen and practice in this room with the door closed, so the wife and teenage daughter don't complain, usually.

[Staun]

I've got a Sumiko Blue Point 2 MC cartridge. It's very quiet, but it seems rather flat sounding. Looking for an MC cart with about the same output but alittle more beef behind it. Channal separation could be better as I believe this one is 32. Suggestions?

[enpdllp]

I've got a Sumiko Blue Point 2 MC cartridge. It's very quiet, but it seems rather flat sounding. Looking for an MC cart with about the same output but alittle more beef behind it. Channal separation could be better as I believe this one is 32. Suggestions?

Not easy to tell which cartridge would work better with your system without knowing what turntable you have and how much money you want to spend. Synergy between components is a big factor and sometimes trumps specs or price in component selection. Type of music also plays a smaller role in cartridge selection. Some audio stores have programs where you could ask for loaners or offer you to exchange the cartridge if it did not worked with your system. Music Direct (http://www.musicdirect.com/default.aspx) and Needle Doctor (http://www.needledoctor.com/) offer very knowledgeable staff that can guide you with your needle compatibility questions and they also offer a 30 day return policy if you are not satisfied with your purchase.

[FrippWire]

When I got involved with vinyl again about 5 years ago I bought a new Rega P1 turntable and installed an Ortofon cartridge. Not sure what model the Ortofon was. I wore the P1 out in about 18 months so I upgraded to a Music Hall MMF 5.1 SE with an Ortofon Mojo cartridge. Sounds pretty good when combo'd with my McIntosh amp & preamp -- solid state amplification because I can't afford McIntosh tube amps.

[rottersclub]

I've got a Sumiko Blue Point 2 MC cartridge. It's very quiet, but it seems rather flat sounding. Looking for an MC cart with about the same output but alittle more beef behind it. Channal separation could be better as I believe this one is 32. Suggestions?

Just a few off the top of my head (in what I suspect is the same price range as the Sumiko):

Dynavector 10X (MC high output)
Grado Reference or Statement Series
Benz Micro MC Gold or Silver
Clearaudio Aurum or Performer
Denon DL-103R

[simon moon]

Long time Vinyl fan here. About 25% of my listening is vinyl, 75% digital.

There are still somethings that vinyl does better than digital. The reproduction of soundstage, as an example.

Here's a few random opinions on some of the things I've read on this thread.

1. Vacuum record cleaners make an audible difference on most records. Even if the record has very few clicks and pops. There are various molds that live in the groves of records that grunge up the mids and highs. A vacuum record cleaner will clean this out. The better the equipment, the more noticeable the improvement.

2. The Spin Clean is a great value. It is not quite as good as a vacuum machine, but much better then nothing. A great compromise between expensive vacuums machine and the Spin Clean is the KAB EV-1. It is built for KAB by Nitty Gritty, but you supply your own vacuum. $169 is a steal!


A friend has the entry level VPI machine (over $600.00) and he swears by it. Says he's hearing things he never heard before. Another friend in the used-record business says they are not worth it. A little alcohol in a spray bottle of water and a lint-free cloth is all you need.

Your friend's experience hearing new things is not unusual. He's probably cleaning out the molds I mentioned earlier.

A record groove is about 0.035 millimeters wide (min). A stylus is similar width. A mold/mildew particle is about .01 - .03 millimeters. It doesn't take rocket science to understand that mold will negatively effect the sound quality. Dust particles that may be too small to hear as actual clicks will also negatively effect sound quality.

3. A well cleaned record that has been treated well will have very low surface noise. Surface noise, in my experience is vastly exaggerated. Poorly designed turntables will also tend to accentuate surface noise because their plinths and stamped aluminum platters are highly resonant and poor at damping. All those cheap direct drive TT's are notorious for this.

4. Anyone that has a cheap direct drive TT with plastic hollow plinth (Gemini, mid level Technics, Stanton, etc) will see an (not trivial) improvement with some minor 'tweaks'. For example, open the TT up and put as much Plast-I-Clay on as many surfaces of the plinth as possible (without interfering with any mechanisms of course) to decrease unwanted resonances. I've personally done this for several friends and the improvement was immediately noticeable. Check out this thread on audiocircle.com for other minor twaeks - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=29618.0

5. Anyone with a Technics 1200 that wants to take it to the next level that will rival many high end tables, check out KAB's mods. http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/m1200.htm

[Romerovm]

Pro-ject Debut Carbon, with Ortofon 2M Blue (which was an upgrade). My "70s stereo" has an old Technics direct-drive!

A great cartridge you got there.

[BakerStMuse]

Denon DL-103R

Have this one and love it.

My only concern is that you can't switch out the stylus without replacing the whole thing. That said I have been running it for almost two years and heavy usage and have not noticed any degradation in sound.

--
Greg

[enpdllp]

My only concern is that you can't switch out the stylus without replacing the whole thing. That said I have been running it for almost two years and heavy usage and have not noticed any degradation in sound.

--
Greg

You are not able to replace the stylus on most higher end cartridges. Some brands will give you credit if you turn your old cartridge when you buy a new one.

[georob]

Anyone have any recommendations for purchase of a new turntable/cartridge setup for less than $1000?
I'm looking for "where to buy" (online, of course...nobody stocks these anymore) and "what to buy"..

Thanks to all for their turntable recommendations !!!

[aplodon]

I just saw that Rega Research RP3 was awarded Analog source component of the year 2012 by Stereophile.
Retail price $1095, including cartridge. So that should fit your budget pretty well.
.

http://oandlhifi.co.uk/images/products/RP3-WHITE-NO-MAT.gif

[JKL2000]

I used to use rubbing alcohol to clean my records, and it always seemed to work fine. I was told to use that instead of that record cleaning solution. Was this good advice, or insanity?

[strawberrybrick]

^ That turntable is gorgeous.

[enpdllp]

I used to use rubbing alcohol to clean my records, and it always seemed to work fine. I was told to use that instead of that record cleaning solution. Was this good advice, or insanity?

Rubbing alcohol is not recommended for cleaning records. It has some impurities that could be left on the record during the record cleaning process. If you are going to use alcohol to clean your records, get isopropyl alcohol that is at least 90% pure. I pointed out a few DIY record cleaning recipes earlier on this thread if you don't want to spend too much money on commercial record cleaning solutions. FWIW, do not use any kind of alcohol to clean 78 recordings. Use pure distilled water for those.

[simon moon]

Have this one and love it.

My only concern is that you can't switch out the stylus without replacing the whole thing. That said I have been running it for almost two years and heavy usage and have not noticed any degradation in sound.

--
Greg


You are not able to replace the stylus on most higher end cartridges. Some brands will give you credit if you turn your old cartridge when you buy a new one.

Not true.

There are several companies that will retip cartridges. And they will sound better than the stock tip.

Soundsmith is one of them.

They will replace the stock aluminum cantilever with ruby, and replace the stock stylus with a nude contact line. Not only will your Denon DL-103R compete easily with cartridges costing twice the price, you will be able to decrease the tracking force down to 1.7 gr instead of the Denon recommended 2.3 gr. You will get better tracking and less wear.

http://www.sound-smith.com/retip/

Then, if you want to take your Denon even further, replace the crappy, resonant plastic body with an aluminum or wood body. There are several available, here's one -

http://www.cabezon.eu/product_info.php?products_id=123

You won't believe how incredible your humble Denon DL-103r will sound.

[Rael]

^^ I can vouch for Soundsmith. They do great work. Depending on how busy they are, it can take a couple of months to get your cart back but it's totally worth it.

[enpdllp]

Not true.

There are several companies that will retip cartridges. And they will sound better than the stock tip.



I was talking about the styluses that you can slide out from the cartridge and replace with another one, not rebuilding or retipping.

[enpdllp]

I just saw that Rega Research RP3 was awarded Analog source component of the year 2012 by Stereophile.
Retail price $1095, including cartridge. So that should fit your budget pretty well.
.

http://oandlhifi.co.uk/images/products/RP3-WHITE-NO-MAT.gif

Very good turntable. Many aftermarket upgrades available if you want to further improve the sound of this turntable in the future.

[PeterG]

The thing is though in my experience that changing the stylus, while marginally cheaper isn't cheap enough to prevent me from just changing the whole cartridge either to upgrade or simply try a new cartridge to see what it can reveal. However, last time round I did change just the stylus, which cost about 60-70% of the same cartridge new. But I'm happy with the my current cartridge so a new stylus was appropriate.

[rottersclub]

My major beef with Rega gear, in particular their tonearms, is the lack of VTA adjustment and the lack any markings on the counterweight. It makes doing your own adjustments pretty difficult, especially if you don't have some setup devices.

[strawberrybrick]

Anyone used compressed air to clean records? Any downside?

[LASERCD]

Don't do it when its on the table. You could accidentally bend your stylus.

I don't see compressed air as much of a help. You'll remove some surfact dirt but you may in fact imbed dirt deeper or just blow it around from one part of the album surface to another.

Liquid cleaner is the best method followed by a wipe with a carbon fibre wand.

[strawberrybrick]

Asked for a bath-type cleaner for Xmas... cross-fingers.

[Rael]

My major beef with Rega gear, in particular their tonearms, is the lack of VTA adjustment and the lack any markings on the counterweight. It makes doing your own adjustments pretty difficult, especially if you don't have some setup devices.

Doesn't Rega now make spacers for VTA adjustment?

[LASERCD]

Asked for a bath-type cleaner for Xmas... cross-fingers.

Don't waste your time with the Spin Clean. I bought one for my friend who is selling parts of my collection on Ebay. He said it was a worthless piece of shit. A real pain in the ass to work with and it didn't get the records that clean.

Get the VPI HW16.5. I had one for almost 25 years before it pooped out this past summer. Replaced it with the HW17f. I expect to take it to the grave.

[Rael]

Don't waste your time with the Spin Clean. I bought one for my friend who is selling parts of my collection on Ebay. He said it was a worthless piece of shit. A real pain in the ass to work with and it didn't get the records that clean.

Get the VPI HW16.5. I had one for almost 25 years before it pooped out this past summer. Replaced it with the HW17f. I expect to take it to the grave.

Is the Spin Clean the contraption Michael Fremer demonstrates on one of his DVDs? If its the one I'm thinking of, he's bent over a sink in his garage trying to clean records with it. It really does look like a pain in the ass.

[enpdllp]

Is the Spin Clean the contraption Michael Fremer demonstrates on one of his DVDs? If its the one I'm thinking of, he's bent over a sink in his garage trying to clean records with it. It really does look like a pain in the ass.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yFLGZHAdqE&feature=player_embedded

[LASERCD]

Yes. That's the Spin Clean. Piece of shit.

[rcarlberg]

What's wrong with a fucking Discwasher? Served me well for 40 years.


HUGE difference!Really? Sounded EXACTLY THE SAME to me -- extremely poor.

[LASERCD]

There is nothing inherently wrong with Discwasher. It does a very good job of removing loose debris and dust. It simply is not as invasive a cleaner as a liquid/vacuum based scheme, which does a better job of loosening and removing deeply embedded gunk.

[enpdllp]

Don't waste your time with the Spin Clean. I bought one for my friend who is selling parts of my collection on Ebay. He said it was a worthless piece of shit. A real pain in the ass to work with and it didn't get the records that clean.

Get the VPI HW16.5. I had one for almost 25 years before it pooped out this past summer. Replaced it with the HW17f. I expect to take it to the grave.

Not sure what were the expectations of your friend or how dirty were the records he cleaned, but the Spin Clean is highly recommended by many audio publications and audiophiles. I am also surprised that your friend found the Spin clean a pain in the ass to work with since it is a very simple item to operate.

The VPI machines are great and built like tanks, but the cheapest one is almost ten times the price of the Spin Clean and the one you just bought is close to twenty times. Not everyone is willing to shell out that much cash for a record cleaning machine. If you feel a vacuum record cleaning machine is the only way to go, you could get the KAB EV-1 (http://www.kabusa.com/ev1.htm) plus your home vacuum cleaner for about a third of the price of the cheapest VPI.

[LASERCD]

The expectations were that it would not be so labor intensive and that it would do a better job of cleaning. Is the VPI a lot more expensive? Of course. As I mentioned I had their base model for nearly a quarter century before the motor gave out. In fact if I wasn't so lazy I could have bought a new motor for minimal cost. I more than got my money's worth out of the 16.5. Its a workhorse.

VPI is not the only vacuum based solution. Unless you want to get involved with the chronically unreliable Audio Desk Systeme, the VPI maxhines are more or less the gold standard for record cleaning machines.

[rottersclub]

Doesn't Rega now make spacers for VTA adjustment?

Yes they do. But in addition to the cost ($20/2mm), you have to remove the tonearm from the plinth in order to "jack it up". I needed to raise the VTA by 4mm so it was $40 for something that if better engineered would have been $0 and a couple of turns.

[simon moon]

Record cleaners that do not have a vacuum are inherently inferior to vacuum type machines. Once the dust and dirt is freed, unless it is completely removed, most of it will just settle back into the groves.

Lucky for us budget minded audiophiles, there is a vacuum machine that does a job equal to the VPIs and Nitty Gritty for a lot less. The KAB EV-1 is $170 (built for KAB by Nitty Gritty), you just need to supply your own vacuum and rotate the record manually. It is a simple and fast process. It is also easy and cheap to make your own cleaning fluid with easily obtainable ingredients (distilled water, isopropyl alcohol and a couple of drops of Photo-Flo or Dawn).

690

There also other very effective methods of record cleaning that don't require machines, and are better than brushes.

Wood glue - yes, believe it our not, spreading a thin layer of wood glue on a record, then pealing it off after it dries does an amazing job, Maybe even comparable to machines. It takes a long time to dry, of course.

In the same vein, there is an Australian made fluid called 'Record Revirginiser' - http://recordrevirginizer.com/ . It is a polymer that, like wood glue, goes deep into the groove to remove dirt. Also like wood glue, it takes a long time to dry. It is also kind of expensive per record.

[Mr. Grizzly Bear]

Just acquired in a barter arrangement, a Kenwood KD600 granite-base manual turntable with an Infinity Black Widow arm (straight) and Grado cartridge, everything working beautifully.

[Modry Effekt]

Just acquired in a barter arrangement, a Kenwood KD600 granite-base manual turntable with an Infinity Black Widow arm (straight) and Grado cartridge, everything working beautifully.

Congrats !


http://youtu.be/IL8ctrRexq8

[Mr. Grizzly Bear]

Record cleaners that do not have a vacuum are inherently inferior to vacuum type machines. Once the dust and dirt is freed, unless it is completely removed, most of it will just settle back into the groves.

Lucky for us budget minded audiophiles, there is a vacuum machine that does a job equal to the VPIs and Nitty Gritty for a lot less. The KAB EV-1 is $170 (built for KAB by Nitty Gritty), you just need to supply your own vacuum and rotate the record manually. It is a simple and fast process. It is also easy and cheap to make your own cleaning fluid with easily obtainable ingredients (distilled water, isopropyl alcohol and a couple of drops of Photo-Flo or Dawn).

690

There also other very effective methods of record cleaning that don't require machines, and are better than brushes.

Wood glue - yes, believe it our not, spreading a thin layer of wood glue on a record, then pealing it off after it dries does an amazing job, Maybe even comparable to machines. It takes a long time to dry, of course.

In the same vein, there is an Australian made fluid called 'Record Revirginiser' - http://recordrevirginizer.com/ . It is a polymer that, like wood glue, goes deep into the groove to remove dirt. Also like wood glue, it takes a long time to dry. It is also kind of expensive per record.

Good stuff! I'll be trying out the wood glue treatment with a couple rekkids shortly. Will also be grabbing a small wet/dry vac and modifying an attachment to get the vacuum cleaning going.

Here's a cool thread on Audio Karma about a guy who built his own VPI style record cleaning machine from scratch for a fraction of what a new one would be: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=431520

[klothos]

Quick OT question:

I have heard that there is a trick with WD40 and really scratched/bad vinyl.......supposedly, it will totally destroy the already ruined vinyl and destroy the needle as well but that you are able to get one - and only one - very good quality playback (usually to record to another medium)

Any truth to this urban legend?

[Modry Effekt]

Mr Grizzly Bear ,i congrat you again

NGC-4594 - Going Home

http://youtu.be/ID_JRbrgYh4

[Mr. Grizzly Bear]

Thanks everyone, definitely digging the new TT!
My first couple transfers however were a bit embarrassing in regards to content, not one but TWO Rod McKuen albums! HOly crap, it makes Shatner sound like Shakespeare!!

[rcarlberg]

At 45 Rod McKuen sounds like Martin Short.

[Jerjo]

Remember back in the late 70s some DJ played "Imaginary Lover" by the Atlanta Rhythm Section song at the wrong speed? The station got flooded with calls asking if it was the new Fleetwood Mac single.

[rcarlberg]

Quick OT question:

I have heard that there is a trick with WD40 and really scratched/bad vinyl.......supposedly, it will totally destroy the already ruined vinyl and destroy the needle as well but that you are able to get one - and only one - very good quality playback (usually to record to another medium)

Any truth to this urban legend?

hellenic vanagon, the D4 liquid is a solvent solution, which you use to clean the vinyl and then wipe/dry off.

When you use WD-40 you are applying oil, in a solvent, to the surface. The solvent will dry-off but the oil will remain behind in the grooves of the vinyl.


Do you not find that repeated application of WD-40 leaves a coating on the surface which is picked up by your stylus ?


Also I would have though the oil on your vinyl will contaminate the turntable mat, record sleeves etc ?
Source (http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?p=269534)

[klothos]

Source (http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?p=269534)

thanks :up

The post after responded:

1)Because of, a very thin, oil film, evrything runs much better!

a)No static clics.
b)No pops and other sounds because of dust particles. (Quiet as cd, almost).
c)Best possible tracking, even for old very used discs.
d)Deeper bass, clearer highs.
e)No friction, no wear for needle and disc.
f)Chance to increase a little the tracking force, if necessary, with no fear for bad concequences.


2)There is a waxlike residue after few days, but no problem with that, because discwasher with wd40, as shown, is applied each time, and wd40 is a terrific dissolver of, it's own and generally, wax!


3)Mat and record sleeves, (especially nylons are curling a little), are "contaminated", but this does not cause any kind of problem.

I thought that was interesting.


I ask because i am always finding beat to shit vinyl of OOP records (for cheap, too) that I would love to have the recordings of. The object here is only to capture the audio off the vinyl to a digital format than dispose of the vinyl. I may buy a decent TT at a pawn shop and give this a try sometime in the future just to see if it works. I was hoping that someone here had actually done it and could confirm/deny the urban legend

[rcarlberg]

Try it and report back. I've heard of "wet playing" before, using distilled water but not using WD-40. Aside from ruining the record, ruining the paper sleeve, ruining the cover and ruining the turntable, what have you got to lose???

[klothos]

Try it and report back. I've heard of "wet playing" before, using distilled water but not using WD-40. Aside from ruining the record, ruining the paper sleeve, ruining the cover and ruining the turntable, what have you got to lose???

Not a problem if the record, paper sleeve, and cover are already ruined :D the TT would be the issue: How many of these can be done in one sitting....if it works at all?

[Mr. Grizzly Bear]

At 45 Rod McKuen sounds like Martin Short.

LMAO!!!!!! X) :rofl

And at 16 RPM, Rod McKuen sounds like Satan incarnate

[progholio]

I have a pristine Discwasher system (brush) and i'm down to my final drops of old/classic formula D-4 fluid.

Is there either a suitable over-the-counter replacement or a home-brewed formula anyone would care to share?

[Pr33t]

I have a pristine Discwasher system (brush) and i'm down to my final drops of old/classic formula D-4 fluid.

Is there either a suitable over-the-counter replacement or a home-brewed formula anyone would care to share?

I've used Disc Doctor (http://www.discdoc.com/) Miracle solution and would highly recommend.

[Mr. Grizzly Bear]

I have a pristine Discwasher system (brush) and i'm down to my final drops of old/classic formula D-4 fluid.

Is there either a suitable over-the-counter replacement or a home-brewed formula anyone would care to share?

Simply this, 1/4 isopropyl alcohol (99% is the best), 3/4 DISTILLED water and a couple drops of Dawn diswashing liquid or PhotoFlow. Mix well.

[Staun]

Pro-ject Debut Carbon, with Ortofon 2M Blue (which was an upgrade). My "70s stereo" has an old Technics direct-drive!I have a Pro-Ject Xperience Classic with a Sumiko Blue Point 2. Vinyl I would have thrown away long ago has new life. Pro-Ject tables are great.

[BobM]

Disk Doctor fluid and brushes will crush any home made washing solution. I've used it for many years now and couldn;t ask for better. Of course, with any cleaning you must use clean water to rinse away the residu. That is a key step IMO.

[JIF]

I got a Jensen stereo with CD player and turntable.