Guitar nut replacement help.

[GuitarGeek]

OK, I think I screwed this up. I needed to put a new nut on one of my Strats. I was told that I could do this myself, but I think I did it wrong. I think somehow the nut didn't sit correctly into the slot (I think I might have used too much glue) so I can't play open position chords now. Is it possible to file the slots to lower the strings to where they should be, or am I pretty much gonna have start over with a new nut?

[No Pride]

OK, I think I screwed this up. I needed to put a new nut on one of my Strats. I was told that I could do this myself, but I think I did it wrong.
I wish I could help you out, but I can't, Chris. I'm not afraid to do any sort of guitar adjustment that involves a screwdriver or a wrench, but anything else, I leave to a professional. You might want to do the same...

[A. Scherze]

You can file the slots, BUT, not much. If more than half of the string is below the top of the fret it gets "choked".

[Mikhael]

You can file the slots, BUT, not much. If more than half of the string is below the top of the fret it gets "choked".

What he said. Generally, one files the *bottom* of the nut first, to get it close to where it needs to be (at least *I* do), then make minute adjustments to the nut slots. Plus, to do it right, you need some special tools - nut files. They're very thin, and come in sizes appropriate for the different slot widths (you can "roll" a smaller file back'n'forth to get a wider slot, so exact sizes are not always necessary).

What material is the nut made from?

[GuitarGeek]

What he said. Generally, one files the *bottom* of the nut first, to get it close to where it needs to be (at least *I* do), then make minute adjustments to the nut slots. Plus, to do it right, you need some special tools - nut files. They're very thin, and come in sizes appropriate for the different slot widths (you can "roll" a smaller file back'n'forth to get a wider slot, so exact sizes are not always necessary).

What material is the nut made from?

It's a plastic nut. I only paid 5 bucks for it. Like I said, I was told this was something I could do myself, but I think I somehow screwed it up. I'm not sure if it the nut is leaning slight toward the bridge (thus screwing up the intonation) or if the nut is too tall or what, but open E, A, C and D chords are out of tune now. The weird thing is, if I play something like an Aadd9th at the fifth fret using the open B and high E strings, it sounds more or less fine. If I play an E major triad at the 7th fret and play the open low E string along with it, that sounds mostly fine too. I'm wondering if adjusting the bridge saddles won't help (I tried doing that, but at the moment, I'm without a guitar tuner, and I'm not sure my ear is quite as reliable a tool in this case as is needed).

I'm also wondering if the girl at the store didn't sell me the wrong sized nut, as it seems to me like it might taller than what's on my other Strat and my acoustic guitars. The question is, if I can't make the guitar work as is, can the nut be replaced again without too much trouble?

The other thing I thought about doing is tuning the guitar down to D, and slapping a capo on the second fret, since fretted chords seem to be mostly fine. Then I can at least play the guitar until the nut works it way loose (trust me, nearly every guitar I've ever owned, the nut always comes loose at some point...I think that's partially because of the highly variable climate I live in, possibly combined with the fact that being left handed, I can probably bend the strings a a bit higher than most right handed guitarists).

[A. Scherze]

Here's some info:

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Nuts,_saddles/i-5350.html

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/String_action_and_setup/i-1811.html

[A. Scherze]

Rough in the nut height and shape
The top of the nut is shaped to follow the radius of the fretboard, and the string slots also follow this curve. To allow the strings to clear the top of the first fret, the bottoms of the slots should be .030" higher than the fret height. Use your feeler gauges to find the fret height by laying a straightedge across two frets and combining the gauges in a stack until they barely slide under the straightedge. Add the .030" gauge to this stack (if you're already using the .030" gauge, recombine the feeler gauges so you have a stack that's .030" higher than the fret height).

Lay your stack of feeler gauges on the fretboard against the nut, bending them to match the fretboard radius. With a sharp pencil, draw a line on the nut that follows this curve. This line indicates where the bottom of the string slots should be. Draw one more line to mark the top of the nut: this distance should be one-half the diameter of the thickest string. This leaves enough bone for a slot that holds the strings without being too deep. It's best to leave a little too much height; later, you'll fine-tune the string heights by lowering one string slot at a time. (A radius gauge is also a good tool for drawing these curved lines on the face of the nut.)

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/i-5350/08sm.jpg

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/i-5350/09sm.jpg





Finally, pencil-in the approximate shape of the nut when viewed end-on from the bass or treble side. The back edge of the nut—facing the peghead—is angled, and later will be smoothed and rounded.
Shape the nut top and backside

Use the Nut and Saddle Vise to hold the nut blank, and file the blank to the shape you've drawn, using the coarse and medium files (in that order). Don't try to finalize the shape yet; instead, leave some material to work with when you're final-shaping later. At this point, the width of the nut is still oversize (if placed in the nut slot, the ends overhang).

[A. Scherze]

http://bernietusko.wordpress.com/2012/02/19/this-is-nuts-or-at-least-its-about-nuts-2/
http://bernietusko.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/nut_slot_design_sm2.png?w=645&h=475
http://bernietusko.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/nut_slot_bottom_sm1.png?w=645&h=496



A few questions and clarifications from readers and students:

Q: What does the slight “relief” v at the bottom of the rounded nut slot actually do? Why is it needed?

A: Re your question about the relief v… “needed” may be slightly strong, as a just a good fitting nut slot (without the relief) goes a long way. The relief is just that “little bit extra” that keeps the string… planted and connected.

I find that ANY string movement at all in the nut (and on the saddle) can “color” the sound. The obvious/extreme case being the “sitar-like” sound you’ve probably experienced by a string that wasn’t mated properly to a nut or saddle.

But on the more subtle level, the extra relief (which is very slight… down to a line scribed with a fresh X-Acto blade for a .024″ – .026″ string), will positively locate the string, help it to mate itself to the slot, and eliminate any chance of the string rattling in the slot. I mean even rattling on a micro level.

To me any movement will make the sound… less pure. I only want to hear the string, the wood and the nut and saddle material. I want the sound as pure and rich and strong as possible, pre-electronics.

One day I’ll show you how I like to perfectly mate each string to its slot.

Q: Cutting the nuts sounds like such an exacting measurement the way you suggest. Where would one get the nut files to achieve both the round bottom and the exact fit?

A: It’s actually not so hard to do. One tool that should be required for anyone who even talks about wanting to make their guitar play better is a digital caliper – one that measures in .001″ (one-thousandth of an inch) increments.

Why? You never want to assume a nut file OR a string is the size that it says. Always measure.

As far as the nut files to do this, if you don’t have a set of them, you can actually use a combination of drill bits with 240 grit sandpaper wrapped around them (I prefer sticky-back), or even the drill bits themselves (though you can’t use too much bending pressure on the smaller ones), and even use thin feeler gauges/sandpaper in the same manner.

The best way (if you’re looking to do this on multiple guitars, do some work for others, or even make some money doing this) may be to get 1 good set of nut files, and fill in the odd sizes with the sandpaper technique. I even wrap one edge of my nut files with sticky-back sandpaper for some exacting size options.

But understandably, that may not be in your budget, so…

Since the smallest files are the hardest ones to “improvise” and get an accurate size and rounded bottom, you may want to at least grab a .010″ and .014″ – and a .017″ for extra credit (assuming you’re playing an electric with .010″-.046″strings). Basically go no more than .001″ above the string size. You can tune/enlarge the slots slightly with some fine sandpaper.

The key is to always measure. Simply having slots that fit the strings and having good geometry will go a long way towards excellent guitar performance.

Thoughts:

One thing I forgot to mention is that when I go the extra step and do this small “v” relief in the center of the slot, it’s usually reserved for the E, A, D and sometimes G strings… and I’ll just be sure that the rest are fitted/mated accurately with their respective slots.

Also, the v is… very small. More is not better. And be sure you don’t create any type of burr alongside the relief.

You may be concerned about the string binding in the nut slot, and the common assumption/solution is to make the slot bigger/sloppier than the string (and away goes tone, sustain and volume…). Sure, this can help, but it’s common for me to see a string bind – usually a plain or very small wound one – even when the slot is significantly larger.

What’s overlooked is that the friction coefficient of the two materials together (usually bone and steel) are fairly high. That high pitched “tink” you’ve undoubtedly heard on strings 1 – 3 when tuning up, is as much an issue of materials involved as it is slot size.

The friction coefficient can actually go up if the string’s load is only focused on a tiny spot, as in the small string/larger slot example. Visualize that a slot doesn’t have to be much (or any) larger for the strings contact point to become very narrow.

You may not buy the analogy, but I think of it like an auto engine main bearing: The smoothest, lowest friction bearing is perfectly fitted to it’s “journal” (the guitar string in our example), with just enough space for a thin layer of lubricant. This is also a combination that will last for hundreds of thousands of miles.

The opposite combination – bearing larger than the journal – will be rough, noisy, inefficient at transferring power, and it will wear quickly. Are you seeing the similarities?

High level guitar performance doesn’t just happen by itself, and I generally reserve this finer technique/strategy for the clients who are willing to put at least a little effort into their setup and maintenance.

Given the significant compromise that’s accepted in the luthier/guitar tech/tinkerer world as far as how a string fits in the nut slot, here’s my final take:

When stuck with the choice of accepting a sloppy fitting string/nut slot, or going for the highest level solution… if it’s a higher level client, student, or my personal guitar, I’ll make the slot fit perfectly, and use a dot of lubricant in each slot. I can hear the whining… “you expect me to add a dot of lube EVERY TIME I change strings?!…”

I even like to take it up a few notches higher. Not just accepting the first thing in my medicine cabinet (i.e. Vaseline etc), I found some awesome stuff that fits the situation perfectly:

Dumonde Tech “Liquid Grease”. Interesting stuff… Once regular grease is wiped away from a surface (say, by a moving string…) it doesn’t flow back to re-lubricate the area. This stuff has just the slightest bit of flow, but not enough to run. And has insanely high film strength. Good enough at 140 mph, good enough for a guitar I suppose. And cheap for the little bottle that will last you forever.

I have a longtime love (since childhood) of all things high-performance motorcycle. I’ve even built engines for numerous national and world champions. So it’s impossible for me to NOT draw extensively from this background when searching for more guitar performance – whereas the more common background for luthiers starts with being a musician and/or woodworker (yes, I have that too…)

Anyway, I hope this helps give your guitar some more mojo. Let me know if you have any questions or need me to clarify anything. Just post a reply in the comments section below and I’ll answer your question directly.
Talk to you soon,

Bernie / FretGuru

[Vic2012]

Generally, one files the *bottom* of the nut first,

That's what I did when I changed a nut on my Strat once. Why is it called a "nut" anyway? Anyway, for me it was a snap. I filed it down and even filed the slots a little and it worked fine (as far as I could tell). I don't think I even used glue.


anything else, I leave to a professional. You might want to do the same...

Good advice. But I had to tinker with my Strat and basically turn it into a worthless piece of junk. I wanted to put a Khaler Tremolo thing on it so I went to town on it with a hammer and chisel :O. :lol

[A. Scherze]

Why is it called a "nut" anyway?

German for groove or slot.

[GuitarGeek]

Well, I've managed to remove the nut from the guitar, so I'm going to try to sand down the bottom side and see if I can't lower the nut. I've been told that was the most likely problem I was having, that the nut was too high. I hadn't realized that was a problem. However, in the process of checking if I had sanded it down enough, I accidentally cracked the nut in half. Apparently, there was a small amount of glue in the slot, and I guess that was preventing the nut from laying flat, and hence when I tried to tune back up to check the nut height, it cracked along the G string slot.

Now, I've been told by a couple different people it's possible to glue the nut back together, so I may try doing that, or I may just back to the guitar store on Monday and buy a new nut (I've been told by one friend to see if I can't get a deal on a bunch of them, so that I'll have a few to mess around with). Right now, I need to figure out how to remove the rest of the excess glue so that I don't have a repeat of the cracked nut thing.

[Burble]

I'd clean out the slot and then not use glue with the next one. It's easier to shape the nut in, because you don't need to account for any of the differences the glue will cause, and also it keeps the slot nice and tidy for when you have to change it again in the future. I've got two Strats, and the nut isn't glued into either of them.

[GuitarGeek]

Good advice. But I had to tinker with my Strat and basically turn it into a worthless piece of junk. I wanted to put a Khaler Tremolo thing on it so I went to town on it with a hammer and chisel :O. :lol

Something like that I would never do. I wouldn't even let a professional do that to one of my guitars. I'm just kinda opposed to making permanent changes to a guitar. That's like asking your girlfriend to get breast augmentation surgery.

Jerry Garcia converted a pre-CBS Strat to a hard tail back in the early 70's. I like the tones he got from that guitar (the so called Alligator Strat that's heard on Europe '72 and many of the other live recordings during the 72-73 era), but I can't believe anyone would do that much work to get a guitar the way he wants it, especially that would have otherwise been worth thousands of dollars on the collector's market (well, it's probably worth millions now, because Jerry used it as one of his main axes, but you get my point).

Same thing with Steve Howe's Broadcaster, which he altered by having it refinished (another big no-no) and installing a Leo Quan Badass bridge. I think he said "I regret doing it now, but at the time, I was trying to make the guitar feel right" (ie he wanted it to feel more like a Gibson probably).

In this day and age, if there's not a guitar set up the way you want at the guitar store, you can buy the damn parts and build one. In the case of Howe's Broadcaster, nowadays one could buy all the parts from Warmoth or one of the replacement part companies and get a virtually identical instrument without defacing a priceless vintage axe.

I can maybe see swapping in different pickups or whatever that don't require any alterations to the body. You can always swap back in the original pickups if you don't like the new ones. And I'm not one of these people who buy into the idea that even the solder joints change the guitar tone (I also don't worry too much about which batteries are in my fuzztone or whether the cord connecting the fuzztone to the flanger or the delay pedal is 5 inches or 6 inches).

But if I wanted to say install a humbucker in a Tele or a Strat, if the body isn't already routed for it, I wouldn't change it. Some Strats come routed for neck and/or bridge humbuckers, even if it's fitted with single coil pickups (or just one humbucker by the bridge) and some even have the so called "swimming pool" pickup cavity, where you can install any pickup combination you want without routing.

[GuitarGeek]

I'd clean out the slot and then not use glue with the next one. It's easier to shape the nut in, because you don't need to account for any of the differences the glue will cause, and also it keeps the slot nice and tidy for when you have to change it again in the future. I've got two Strats, and the nut isn't glued into either of them.

What's keeping it from sliding back and forth? On both of my Strats (as well as my old Hondo ES-335 copy, which I still own, incidentally) when I bend strings, the nut sometimes slides in whichever direction I'm bending the string. On the Strats this varies, I think depending on the weather (I think when the wood expands, that serves as a sort of a quasi vice-grip action, but when it contracts, it's becomes a bit more of an issue). I always had the understanding you were supposed to use some kind of glue.

[Burble]

What's keeping it from sliding back and forth? I always had the understanding you were supposed to use some kind of glue.
The string tension should hold in in place. I don't have the sliding problem. I'm not a manic string bender, though, and I use .010s on top - not sure if someone playing with .008s with more aggressive bending might have a problem. I've had the nut cut on my oldest Strat (copy) a couple times, and it's never been glued in. On the other hand, when I got the newer one ( a Fender) the nut (probably the factory nut) was glued in, and it sort of surprised me. I'm just a keyboard player with a couple of guitars, though, so I really don't have a definitive answer.

[Vic2012]

Something like that I would never do. I wouldn't even let a professional do that to one of my guitars. I'm just kinda opposed to making permanent changes to a guitar. That's like asking your girlfriend to get breast augmentation surgery.

I couldn't leave well enough alone. If I'd have left the thing alone it would be worth something today. It was an American Strat manufactured in 1979. I'm sure it'd be worth more than the 400 dollars I paid for it in 1981 or 82. All the alterations made to it were by my hand (the hand of doom :lol). I ended up selling the thing for 80 bucks. I messed it up so bad I'm surprised I even got that. I'd intended on getting another electric eventually. If I ever do get another guitar I'll get a Gibson/Epiphone guitar with humbuckers.

[Mikhael]

For me, I use a drop of Krazy glue - just a drop - in the slot to hold it in place. Changing it is pretty easy; that drop pops right off with a little pop from a screwdriver or some such.

I've not heard of that little "relief" slot at the bottom of a string slot. You'd have to make it with an X-acto knife or something like that.

[Vic2012]

I should be brought up on charges for the abuse I gave that Strat (or taken out back and shot!!!! :lol).

[GuitarGeek]

OK, I just about got the nut filed down to the way I like it. I still need to get a new tuner so I can get the intonation adjusted correctly, but everything seems to be going in the right direction. I'm holding out until then before I do glue it back down again. I wanna make sure I have the intonation set up the way I want it, and see if it plays in tune. But for the most part the open position chords are sounding better than they did before, so I think this is starting to work the way I want it to.