White Lion And Other '80s Hair Metal

[JIF]

I recently acquired a copy Mane Attraction, which was the last album from the classic White Lion lineup. Who likes this album, this band, or other '80s "hair metal"?

[Gruno]

I rather fancy the genre.

[80s were ok]

Zebra rocks.

[Scott Bails]

Really liked White Lion. Vito Bratta was the real deal.

But I never went "too deep" into the hair metal thing. I liked Night Ranger, Extreme, and a few others, but there always had to be some musicianship there.

[3LockBox]

I could maybe still listen to Zebra or Tesla, but by the mid-80s, hair metal was crap. That first G-n-R album was killer, but then again, it really wasn't hair metal.

[Gruno]

I could maybe still listen to Zebra or Tesla, but by the mid-80s, hair metal was crap. That first G-n-R album was killer, but then again, it really wasn't hair metal.

Pah! From '85-'89 hair metal was at it's peak!

[sonic]

'Hair metal' is just a label that lumps in metal bands with a glam image all together. From that period I like Dokken, their Tooth and Nail album is pretty good. Twisted Sister was the first 'heavy' band I got into. I still think Stay Hungry is a classic album. I also enjoy Quiet Riot - Mental Health. I see Great White listed as Hair Metal too — they also had a string of good albums. Night Ranger - Seven Wishes album is good too.

[sonic]

Oh, and I'm an unashamed Vixen fan. They rock and are totally hot! :lol
https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdwmvbcG4C1rloi5lo1_500.jpg

[JIF]

Really liked White Lion. Vito Bratta was the real deal.

But I never went "too deep" into the hair metal thing. I liked Night Ranger, Extreme, and a few others, but there always had to be some musicianship there.Good to know. I had been wanting to get some White Lion cause I remember liking the tapes I had of them when I was little; I had all three of their major label albums. It's a shame that White Lion didn't do so well with Big Game, because they tackled serious issues on that one. I found a used cd copy of Maine Attraction, so I decided to get it. Warsong is my fave WL song, I rediscovered Broken Heart thanks to American Idol.

[JIF]

I could maybe still listen to Zebra or Tesla, but by the mid-80s, hair metal was crap. That first G-n-R album was killer, but then again, it really wasn't hair metal.I don't think that neither Zebra or Tesla were hair metal. Zebra was the bastard son from a love affair between Zepplin, Yes, Rush, and The Who. Telsa(like Cinderella) was a '80s rock version of '70s blues-rock.

[JIF]

Oh, and I'm an unashamed Vixen fan. They rock and are totally hot! :lol
https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdwmvbcG4C1rloi5lo1_500.jpgI remember watching Bands Reunited on VH1 and thinking that bassist Share Pederson still looked hot.

[GuitarGeek]

First of all, if we're gonna discuss the genre, let's at least not use a derogatory term to describe. I personally prefer "glam metal", but hey, they're all just labels that have nothing to do with music, right? And I certainly don't think it's fair lump good bands like Zebra, Y&T, Night Ranger, and maybe even White Lion in with the likes of Poison (who had a few decent songs on their first album, but after that..., Warrant, and Firehouse. If you're gonna call Night Ranger and Zebra "hair metal" or "glam metal" or whatever, you might as also lump in Van Halen, because they were the originators of that whole type of image (well, except for Black Oak Arkansas).

I'm apparently the only person on the planet who likes the second Zebra album, No Tellin' Lies better than the first. It's absolutely a crime that this band wasn't bigger. Randy Jackson was one of the best hard rock songwriters during that period, and he's a supremely talented guitarist too. The third album, 3.V is another really sweet record.

Night Ranger, I only like the first three albums: Dawn Patrol, Midnight Madness, and Seven Wishes. Sister Christian is a good song with both a killer guitar solo and a stupid refrain. Personally, I thought Goodbye (which was on the next album) was a much better "power ballad" and featured another very sweet guitar solo from Brad Gillis during the ride out. I've got the fourth album, Big Life around her someplace, and I don't remember it being very good.

I still think Quiet Riot's Metal Health was a great album. Some good songs on that. That one had another great power ballad, Thunderbird, which most people don't even know exists. And if nothing else, they put me on them trail of the almighty Slade. I never did hear any of their other albums (nope, not even the two Randy Rhoads played on), I do think it was a bad idea for them to do Mama Weer All Crazee Now. I guess typically, the record company asks the band to "Write another single like your last hit", so I guess in this case it was "Why don't you guys go in and do another Slade song". :down It didn't help that an Irish band called Mama's Boys had also just released a cover (a much better one, too) of the same song.

I never had any of Dokken's album (shocking, I know), but I remember liking some of the songs I heard off those albums. I always thought Just Got Lucky, In My Dreams, and Tooth And Nail. And I kinda had a crush on Patricia Arquette, who was in the Dream Warriors video at the time.

As for White Lion, I remember liking Wait, but that was mainly because of the 12 string acoustic intro, and that cool guitar solo. There was another song off that album, I think it was called When The Children Cry, that was a very nice one too.

I also should mention Ratt, their another band where the first two or three albums had some good songs on it. And you gotta love any band that manages to rope Milton Berle into being in their videos. Actually, the tune I liked the best from them, I think was called Dance, which I liked because of the intro.

Y&T is another band worth mentioning. I don't have their earlier albums, but In Rock We Trust I think is a really cool album. And once again, there's a really sweet power ballad called This Time. I remember seeing the video for Don't Stop Running on MTV back in the day. And actually, thinking about it now, Summertime Girls wasn't that bad of a song either.

Oh, and talking about the girls in Vixen still being hot, I saw that Bands Reunited, and that was absolutely my thought when I saw Roxi Petrucci. When she sat down behind the drums and twirled a drumstick at the start of the song they showed them playing, it was like it was 1988 all over again.

Oh, and I also like some of the stuff on the first two Bon Jovi albums. I thought In And Out Of Love, Runaway, She Don't Know Me and Silent Night were all awesome songs, much better than the Desmond Child written dreck that propelled them to stardom on the third album.

[80s were ok]

I think all three Zebra albums are great, almost equally. And even "Zebra IV" released a few years back has some great songs on it. I also agree Ratt was a cut above the rest of the bands of the era due to really having some great songs, lots and lots of great songs. That compilation from the 90's "Ratt N Roll" or something like that - every song on that album is huge.

[JIF]

I think all three Zebra albums are great, almost equally. And even "Zebra IV" released a few years back has some great songs on it. I also agree Ratt was a cut above the rest of the bands of the era due to really having some great songs, lots and lots of great songs. That compilation from the 90's "Ratt N Roll" or something like that - every song on that album is huge.My favorite Ratt song is Nobody Rides For Free, which was on the Point Break soundtrack.

[Jerjo]

Not a big fan of this genre but when I hear Cinderella's "Gypsy Road" that big riff makes me smile.

[nosebone]

The hair metal genre was so predictable in every way, shape & form.

I always thought Van Halen kick started the sound & image, but aside from VH and the first two David Lee Roth albums with Steve Vai, I don't care if I ever hear or more importantly see that stuff ever again.

Just about every single guitarist from that era shamlessly ripped off EVH 's bag o' tricks.

[dropforge]

I'm apparently the only person on the planet who likes the second Zebra album, No Tellin' Lies better than the first. It's absolutely a crime that this band wasn't bigger. Randy Jackson was one of the best hard rock songwriters during that period, and he's a supremely talented guitarist too. The third album, 3.V is another really sweet record.

NTL is great. I love the title track, "Bears," "Wait Until The Summer's Gone," "But No More." 3.V is overproduced but "Making You The Fool" is awesome. I only like the first two songs from IV.

The KBFH live disc is killer. Yeah, they should have been bigger. They did clock the fast-selling debut in Atlantic's release history for the first album, but I don't know what happened after that.


I never had any of Dokken's album (shocking, I know), but I remember liking some of the songs I heard off those albums.

Now you can buy just one CD and have most of them. From Conception is a live show from '82. Great flashback disc.


Y&T is another band worth mentioning. I don't have their earlier albums, but In Rock We Trust I think is a really cool album.

Y&T had some videos on eMpTyVee and they're more respected overseas (east and west), but their fame in America was a fleeting one. Dave Meniketti has more in common with Ronnie Montrose than guys like EVH and Vai. And a great singing voice, too. Black Tiger, Mean Streak, IRWT...good shit.


Oh, and talking about the girls in Vixen still being hot, I saw that Bands Reunited, and that was absolutely my thought when I saw Roxi Petrucci.

Mos' def'!

[SteveSly]

Never got into White Lion much, and not sure if these are all “hair metal”, but from that same era I liked:

Extreme: One of the most underrated bands of the 90’s IMO.

Cinderella: Had some good songs

Great White: Blues based rock n roll. I think the album with “Old Rose Motel” on it was a classic of the era (can’t remember the name of the album off the top of my head).

Night Ranger: I’ve seen them live a couple of times and they are always a lot of fun and top notch musicians.

Damn Yankees: The “supergroup” featuring Ted Nugent, Tommy Shaw, Jack Blades, and Michael Cartellone. Saw them live twice, both great shows. Their first album was a lot better than the 2nd.

Zebra: Agree with the other posters that they should have been much bigger than they were. I got to see them as an opening act once and they were great.

Quiet Riot: “Mental Health” was a great rocking record. After that it went downhill pretty fast though.

Twisted Sister: I liked the album with “We’re Not Gonna Take It” on it (can’t remember the title off hand).

Steve Sly

[Rufus]

Alcatraz & Whitesnake

[GuitarGeek]

Alcatrazz

That first Alcatrazz album is probably the best album Yngwie Malmsteen has ever been involved in. Some good tracks on that one, as well as the Alcatrazz record. I have a promo poster for No Parole For Rock N Roll that I bought at one of the 3RP fests.

[JIF]

That first Alcatrazz album is probably the best album Yngwie Malmsteen has ever been involved in. Some good tracks on that one, as well as the Alcatrazz record. I have a promo poster for No Parole For Rock N Roll that I bought at one of the 3RP fests.For some reason, the video for God Bless Video reminds me of the Asia video for Only Time Will Tell.

[nosebone]

That first Alcatrazz album is probably the best album Yngwie Malmsteen has ever been involved in. Some good tracks on that one, as well as the Alcatrazz record. I have a promo poster for No Parole For Rock N Roll that I bought at one of the 3RP fests.

Agreed.
The album after with Steve Vai has its moments also.

[mitchgx]

For some reason, when "hair metal" is brought up, any band that came out in the '80s starts to get lumped in the category. Alcatrazz? Yep...those first two albums are awesome, but they certainly aren't hair metal. Y&T? Zebra? Those are hard rock bands with roots in the '70s (btw, to the poster that said they hadn't heard anything before In Rock We Trust........go rectify that immediately by getting Mean Streak and Black Tiger. Go on....do it....now).

Anyway, as for the thrust of the post, I have little use for White Lion. They always felt more like a bland power-ballad band to me. I'd have to say my favorite bands from the era that could fit into that Sunset Boulevard hair metal category would be Motley Crue (esp. the first two albums), Bulletboys, Cinderella (although I'd only include their first album in the category, and then mostly because of their image), Winger (who, btw, are still putting out the occasional album, and they are great)....eh, I'm sure there's a few others that aren't coming to mind.

[Scott Bails]

Anyway, as for the thrust of the post, I have little use for White Lion. They always felt more like a bland power-ballad band to me. .

Then you need to hear more.

Not saying they were the greatest band ever, but they were more than a "bland power-ballad band."

[Cuz]

I'm not a fan of what's considered hair metal. To me, most (but not all) of it is really lame pop music layered with a distorted guitar played by douchebags who think acting like David Lee Roth is normal. Having said that, my opinion on some bands:

Motley Crue - I LOVE their first album, Too Fast For Love. They went downhill fast, but that first record is catchy as hell and has some balls. The 2nd album, Shout At The Devil, has some really good moments too, but the cheese factor kicks in. Shout At The Devil also has what I consider to be one of the worst cover-versions ever - The Beatles' Helter Skelter. I actually own these on CD.

Ratt - Not as lame as some think. I don't feel the need to get any of their stuff on CD, but I remember the first full length album wasn't too bad. Round and Round is a classic hit of the era, and I remember another song that was pretty good - Lack of Communication. The singer has a really bad voice.

Cinderella - I always said this band was "born" either 10 years too early or 10 years too late. Glam rock with a touch of the blues, they had some balls. Their image was retarded and their name didn't help matters either. Recently picked up a comp for cheap and it's pretty good.

Poison - A few catchy songs, never owned anything and never will, but if someone game me a compilation, I wouldn't throw it out.

White Lion - Absolute shit.

Quiet Riot - The album Metal Health was pretty good, but they got real cheesy real fast.

Zebra/Twisted Sister/Alcatrazz - definitely not hair metal.

Y&T - First few albums are great. I thought In Rock We Trust wasn't very good, it was a lame attempt at going commercial.

[Scott Bails]

Funny, I can't see any redeeming qualities in Poison. No musicianship, and just come across as a bunch of douchebags.

[80s were ok]

Every Rose Has its Thorn.

[80s were ok]

Funny, I can't see any redeeming qualities in Poison. No musicianship, and just come across as a bunch of douchebags.obviously you'e never met Bret Michaels in person, especially in recent years.

[Scott Bails]

obviously you'e never met Bret Michaels in person, especially in recent years.

I've seen plenty of what he's about on those stupid "dating" shows he did on VH1. Guy's a scumbag.

[80s were ok]

I've seen plenty of what he's about on those stupid "dating" shows he did on VH1. Guy's a scumbag.

whatever, that is TV. I met him once after a concert in Atlantic City and he was one of the nicest, most gracious musicians I've ever met. Even hooked up me with a guitar pic.

[Gruno]

whatever, that is TV. I met him once after a concert in Atlantic City and he was one of the nicest, most gracious musicians I've ever met. Even hooked up me with a guitar pic.

He is a nice guy. I first met him in early '87 and I was at their very first video shoot -- "Cry Tough" -- at The Palace in Hollywood, CA. I was a teen and they were all cool back then. They had wild parties at their apartment just off the Sunset strip. Bret gave my friend a bunch of items from his collection at that point. Some killer stuff he has to this day. In '97 I saw Bret and we chatted about those old days and he wanted to know if he still had those things and I told them he definitely still has them.

[Gruno]

Here is what I am listening to right now while working at home:

http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad308/goblynzgroove/misc/80hair2_zpsb46728e7.png

[Scott Bails]

:lol

Why TF are you here, Gruno? :lol:lol:lol

[Gruno]

:lol

Why TF are you here, Gruno? :lol:lol:lol

Haha! You mean in this thread or PE itself?

You don't like the playlist???

If someone started a "current pop" thread, I would have some great playlists to post in there.

Most would laugh at my prog playlist -- if I had a prog playlist ;)

[Scott Bails]

Nah, I mean on this forum!

No problem with the playlist, and I'm familiar with your musical taste by now. It just cracks me up that you hang out here.

Not that I want you to leave, of course, I just find it funny. ;)

[mitchgx]

From all accounts, Bret Michales is a nice enough guy. But that doesn't make him any kind of musician, songwriter, or singer.

[JIF]

From all accounts, Bret Michales is a nice enough guy. But that doesn't make him any kind of musician, songwriter, or singer.I'm starting to think less of Brett due to his reality shows. I don't think he ever intended to find true love, or stay with his baby mama; he just wanted his face on tv. Btw, I saw the remastered version of Look What The Cat Dragged In at Wal-Mart, and bought it cause of the price($9.99) and the cover; they aren't bad looking chicks.

[arj]

Winger had some great moments. Damn good muso's right there.

[Frumious B]

Motley Crüe did just about the greatest rock autobiography ever so I have a soft spot for them up through Dr. Feelgood or so. I'm also not above the occasional 80s era Bon Jovi or Def Leppard track. A lot of the rest comes across as a bad imitation of Roth era Van Halen without the sense of irony to me so I generally listen to Roth era Van Halen when I crave that sort of thing.

[Gruno]

One of my favorite hair bands came in at the end of the game: House of Lords.

They came out in 1988 and had some good albums into the 90s. Greg Giuffria was the keyboard player and had some other Giuffria members. The lead singer, James Christian, is one of my all-time favorite singers. He has a lot of gritty soul in them vocals, I say! They are still releasing music and playing out. Although, I believe James is the only original member in the band these days. I saw these guys open for Nelson back in the day and they buried Nelson in performance. I went to a party for one of the HoL shows and have some video footage I shot of it in 1990 or about. I need to find that and post it.

Check out some of their music.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moCo3wIB2ts


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNict5ulW-0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4DaO2DRm5s

[Scott Bails]

I'm starting to think less of Brett due to his reality shows.

Exactly. Guy comes off like a total asshole with that crap.

Yeah, I know it's TV, but no one forced him to do it, and he did it more than once.

He might be a great guy at meet 'n' greets, but he plays an asshole on TV.

[Gruno]

Exactly. Guy comes off like a total asshole with that crap.

Yeah, I know it's TV, but no one forced him to do it, and he did it more than once.

He might be a great guy at meet 'n' greets, but he plays an asshole on TV.

I don't hold much weight with the musician off stage. Usually doesn't affect how I view their music.

[Scott Bails]

I don't hold much weight with the musician off stage. Usually doesn't affect how I view their music.

Add his TV persona with the vapidity of their music, and it's hard to take them seriously.


There are many better artists in the genre, IMO.

[Gruno]

Add his TV persona with the vapidity of their music, and it's hard to take them seriously.


There are many better artists in the genre, IMO.

I agree there are many others better in the genre; look at my playlist for many right there ;)

I still stand by my comment, "I don't hold much weight with the musician off stage. Usually doesn't affect how I view their music." If you don't like Poison's music and don't like Bret Michaels away from his music, then keep on moving right along as there won't be anything to see there of interest.

[Vic2012]

In general I despise 80s, Hair/Glam/Metal. More than anything I just hated that image. I'm pretty sure that among all those bands there were some great musicians and some great songs. But the videos and the image turned me off. I was a kid and a teen throughout the Beatles, Stones, Led Zep, The Who run during those golden decades. So the thought of listening to a bunch of pouty posers in makeup just turned my stomach.

In the last 10 years or so I've been a little kinder to the whole scene. I agree that Van Halen pretty much kicked off the whole genre, but they were light years better than all their imitators. For some time I'd been hearing/reading all the praise that Motley Crue's "Dr. Feelgood" was getting. I always liked the title track. I bought it, gave a shot. I got rid of it within a week. I hated it. It was crap. I liked the title track but the rest was just generic, 80s pop/rock with a little attitude and tattoos. What a disappointment. What was I expecting?

[Mikhael]

I'm not a fan of what's considered hair metal. To me, most (but not all) of it is really lame pop music layered with a distorted guitar played by douchebags who think acting like David Lee Roth is normal. Having said that, my opinion on some bands:

Motley Crue - I LOVE their first album, Too Fast For Love. They went downhill fast, but that first record is catchy as hell and has some balls. The 2nd album, Shout At The Devil, has some really good moments too, but the cheese factor kicks in. Shout At The Devil also has what I consider to be one of the worst cover-versions ever - The Beatles' Helter Skelter. I actually own these on CD.

Ratt - Not as lame as some think. I don't feel the need to get any of their stuff on CD, but I remember the first full length album wasn't too bad. Round and Round is a classic hit of the era, and I remember another song that was pretty good - Lack of Communication. The singer has a really bad voice.

Cinderella - I always said this band was "born" either 10 years too early or 10 years too late. Glam rock with a touch of the blues, they had some balls. Their image was retarded and their name didn't help matters either. Recently picked up a comp for cheap and it's pretty good.

Poison - A few catchy songs, never owned anything and never will, but if someone game me a compilation, I wouldn't throw it out.

White Lion - Absolute shit.

Quiet Riot - The album Metal Health was pretty good, but they got real cheesy real fast.

Zebra/Twisted Sister/Alcatrazz - definitely not hair metal.

Y&T - First few albums are great. I thought In Rock We Trust wasn't very good, it was a lame attempt at going commercial.

Wow. You and I come from two different universes. Twisted Sister was DEFINITELY hair-metal, as was Cinderella. I thought White Lion totally blew away Poison and the Crue.

My favourite of that era was probably Whitesnake, just a couple of albums. The two DLR albums with Vai on them were pretty killer, as was Blue Murder (Sykes' band after he left Whitesnake). Then there was Jake E. Lee's Badlands, which was a nice raw three-piece band. Plus, Mr. Big was a great band, as was Extreme, at least for a while.

[Scott Bails]

Wow. You and I come from two different universes. Twisted Sister was DEFINITELY hair-metal, as was Cinderella. I thought White Lion totally blew away Poison and the Crue.

Completely agree.


Plus, Mr. Big was a great band, as was Extreme, at least for a while.

Agree again - except that Extreme's last album was fantastic.

[Gruno]

Continuing the "listen while I work" thang -- with 36-40 coming in with the late 80s into the 90s:

http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad308/goblynzgroove/misc/80smetal2_zps447c0627.png

[JIF]

Wow. You and I come from two different universes. Twisted Sister was DEFINITELY hair-metal, as was Cinderella. I thought White Lion totally blew away Poison and the Crue.

My favourite of that era was probably Whitesnake, just a couple of albums. The two DLR albums with Vai on them were pretty killer, as was Blue Murder (Sykes' band after he left Whitesnake). Then there was Jake E. Lee's Badlands, which was a nice raw three-piece band. Plus, Mr. Big was a great band, as was Extreme, at least for a while.Badlands was a quartet, not a trio. I don't think a hair band would have songs such as Captain Howdy and Burn In Hell? If you call Twisted Sister a "hair metal", you might as well call Kiss and the New York Dolls one, too.

[SteveSly]

[QUOTE=Mikhael;17662]My as was Blue Murder (Sykes' band after he left Whitesnake).

Totally forgot about Blue Murder. They were great although not really hair metal IMO.

Steve Sly

[Gruno]

Another band that I enjoyed: Steve Stevens Atomic Playboys. Many of you know him from Billy Idol's band. I knew of the singer, Perry McCarty as we lived about 3 miles apart when he got the gig. He was in a local band named Warrior. They had one album on MCA. I saw them tons of times playing parties and clubs. His voice has so much power. He also has a unique stage look.

As for Atomic Playboys, they have the typical 80s hair band style but with that cheesy whiz of Stevens' guitar. He does all the textbook aqua net tricks he can within the album but it's the best cheese to spread over your animalized spandex!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_Playboys


Atomic Playboys is the first studio album by guitarist Steve Stevens, released in 1989 through Warner Bros. Records. It reached #119 on that year's Billboard 200 chart and remained charted for 12 weeks.The cover art was done by surrealist artist H.R. Giger, who designed the Xenomorph creature in the Alien film series. The title track was used in the closing credits of Australian television network The Nine Network's coverage of Formula One throughout the early 1990s, whilst "Power of Suggestion" featured in the 1994 film Ace Ventura: Pet Detective.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XYAwpVtYrE

Here is some info on Warrior and their debut album Fighting For The Earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrior_(band)


Fighting For The Earth was released in 1985 and though not a huge commercial success, the album became an instant favorite among underground metal heads

Check out that wiki link and read about Warrior's band members and the people they each ended up working with. It is a pretty interesting story that Warrior have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_for_the_Earth

skip to :44 in to avoid the dumb intro:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=v7Am0MGAaCE#t=44s

[JIF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY6ZyWH60bs
Who likes a little ratt and roll? This is my favorite Ratt song. I dedicate it to birthday boy Stephen Pearcy.

[Digital_Man]

Most hair metal is not my cup of tea. I like some bands from the era but most aren't really hair metal. I can tolerate some such as white snake but not most. I like Def Leppard quite a bit but don't really consider them hair metal.

[everythingtoexcess]

I wasn't a big fan of hair metal, but there were some amazing players in those bands. Vito Bratta was just ridiculous. Reb Beach, Paul Gilbert, Steve Vai...They were all on the hair metal side at the time. Night Ranger had Brad Gillis and Jeff Watson at the same time. As cheesy a ballad as Sister Christian might be, that guitar solo is not for children. I don't know if I'd call Damn Yankees hair metal, but they were singing and playing their asses off on that first album.
I hate 99% of the songs on the radio. I always have. But I miss the days when I could at least listen to a song I didn't like and be inspired by SOME part of it and recognize that at least SOMEONE in the band was working for his money.

[JohnTG8]

Y&T is the shit. Just saw them for the third time down in Baltimore in March. They totally kicked ass for 2 hours. Great White was also very good. Nothing fancy to me, just straight ahead rock and roll. White Lion I didn't get into. Ratt I couldn' stand the vocalist. Quiet Riot, Poison and Warrant didn't do a thing for me. Dokken I thought was prett good. Good guitar work and Don could sing. Zebra I really enjoyed and as one poster said Randy Jackson could play the guitar. I even liked his one album band from the 90's called Randy Jackson's China Rain "Bed Of Nails".

[ThomasKDye]

Anyone ever hear of Virgin Steele? I heard one of their songs ("We Rule the Night") from a terrible 80s movie called "Zombie Nightmare" and it actually was kind of fun.

[JIF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEnz9SBTeQs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gU5Vg2JokU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX4LC1HBmag
What do you all think of these?

[GuitarGeek]

Oh yeah, I liked Body Talk. That was a good song.

[JIF]

Oh yeah, I liked Body Talk. That was a good song.I actually bought the Kix CD Cool Kids because that song was on there. To me, it kinda sounds like Pyromania, in that Kix married AC/DC-inspired hard rock with synths and keyboards. Interesting fact:Nick Gilder co-wrote Body Talk.

[Yves]

As a fan of 'real' metal back then, I loathed hair metal. Hell, even the supposed 'real' metal of the 80s was mostly cheese but some of it survived the decade. I was into the likes of Slayer, Metallica, Mercyful Fate, Megadeth... and hated 'poser metal' as we called it. I wore denim, leather, and spikes not eye liner and spandex.

[3LockBox]

other than a handful of bands pre-1985; hair metal fell out of favor with me. I liked Tesla and maybe Dokken, but I mostly followed bands that came before, like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Scorpions, etc. But even some of my fave late-70s, early 80s holdovers made some real crap in the late '80s hairmetal explosion.

[JKL2000]

I recently acquired a copy Mane Attraction, which was the last album from the classic White Lion lineup.

Wow, I'll bet it was cheap, right?

I could only get into these bands if they had a LOT of eye makeup and their songs were really bland.

[Facelift]

Van Halen is as close as I can get to this stuff. If I want to hear a quality guitarist, there's a million other options. If I want to be energized, I can listen to real metal or punk. If I want to be embarrassed I can just look at pictures of myself from the '80s.

[JKL2000]

Oh, and I'm an unashamed Vixen fan. They rock and are totally hot! :lol


Hmm, I'll have to check them out. Wait a minute, WTF is going on here? Those aren't three blonde guys in over-the-top makeup and wigs, those are real girls! WTF are you trying to foist on us, sonic? We know Hair Metal, and real girls can NOT play Hair Metal.

[sonic]

Yes, Hair Metal was somewhat cheesy, but I don't think prog fans are in a position to point fingers.

[Gruno]

Yes, Hair Metal was somewhat cheesy, but I don't think prog fans are in a position to point fingers.

Definitely. To some, hair metal is just fun. Doesn't have to be filled entirely with virtuoso guitarists/musicians. I feel some take music so seriously that they forget to have fun with it.

[JIF]

Wow, I'll bet it was cheap, right?

I could only get into these bands if they had a LOT of eye makeup and their songs were really bland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lNkyS9dBnM


Definitely. To some, hair metal is just fun. Doesn't have to be filled entirely with virtuoso guitarists/musicians. I feel some take music so seriously that they forget to have fun with it.Cue Keith Emerson and his flying piano, or Rick Wakeman and his caps-a-plenty.

[GuitarGeek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lNkyS9dBnM

Cue Keith Emerson and his flying piano, or Rick Wakeman and his caps-a-plenty.

Or Carl Palmer removing his shirt whilst simultaneously doing 64th notes on the double bass drum, or Chris Squire and his backgammon themed Going For The One era outfit, or Peter Gabriel dressing up as Narcissus or the Slipperman, etc.

[progeezer's ghost]

Not sure if they qualify, but to this day I still own (and occasionally spin) one of my fave albums from my youth- Skid Row's 1991 release Slave to the Grind. I love Quicksand Jesus, In A Darkened Room, and especially Wasted Time.

[JIF]

Not sure if they qualify, but to this day I still own (and occasionally spin) one of my fave albums from my youth- Skid Row's 1991 release Slave to the Grind. I love Quicksand Jesus, In A Darkened Room, and especially Wasted Time.The critics may call Skid Row a "hair band", but they really weren't. Slave To The Grind is quite thrashy.

[JJ88]

Not the most glorious period for heavy rock music, but I do think Cinderella were a band that could have held their own at any time. The name and the image is still held against them, which are admittedly as hair-metal as they come, but the music itself is great hard-rock, sort of like AC/DC meets Aerosmith. The songs I know from the 2nd album 'Long Cold Winter' move towards a blues-rock sound which is more akin to (albeit released just before) what The Black Crowes did- and that band are still a popular draw now. Just shows how image can be a real drawback sometimes.

There were a few songs here and there I find palatable by some of the other bands. But Cinderella are the only ones I'd listen to much.

[arabicadabra]

Winger - yes, they were "of their time", but listening to Rod Morgenstein ply his time-manipulating tricks on MTV felt like a blow for the musos.
Whitesnake and Blue Murder were more like 70s rock bands to me.
And I love Badlands....

[ThomasKDye]

Winger - yes, they were "of their time", but listening to Rod Morgenstein ply his time-manipulating tricks on MTV felt like a blow for the musos.
Whitesnake and Blue Murder were more like 70s rock bands to me.
And I love Badlands....

Winger, Blue Murder, Mr. Big (of course) and Whitesnake (except for David Coverdale) always struck me as frustrated prog-rockers who did what they had to to make a dime. Extreme actually ATTEMPTED their own brand of prog on "III Sides to Every Story"... which tanked in comparison to their previous album. You can see why many of them dipped into their love of "proggier" efforts only as a sideshow at the most.

[Scott Bails]

Extreme actually ATTEMPTED their own brand of prog on "III Sides to Every Story"... which tanked in comparison to their previous album. .

Probably the most under-rated album of the genre. A real gem.

[Gruno]

The songs I know from the 2nd album 'Long Cold Winter' move towards a blues-rock sound which is more akin to (albeit released just before) what The Black Crowes did- and that band are still a popular draw now.

Ever heard their 3rd album, Heartbreak Station? Another good album from Cinderella. Wikipedia entry claims:


If compared to the two previous records, this album presents some differences in its musical style, being more oriented towards blues heavy hard rock instead of glam metal and being more evidently influenced by The Rolling Stones and Aerosmith.

=======


Winger - yes, they were "of their time", but listening to Rod Morgenstein ply his time-manipulating tricks on MTV felt like a blow for the musos.

Why did it feel like a blow? Rod made the choice to be in the band and appears to have embraced it:


http://www.melodicrock.com

WINGER DEBUT REACHES 25 YEARS:

This August will mark the 25th anniversary of Winger's self-titled debut album, to commemorate this milestone the band will perform & record the first Winger album live in its entirety. This full reunion concert will take place on August 30th at The San Felipe Casino in Algodones, NM with Special Guests Warrant & Head East. In addition to the current line-up of Kip Winger, Reb Beach, Rod Morgenstein & John Roth, the band will also be joined by original keyboardist Paul Taylor for this show.

A limited amount of VIP Meet & Greet passes and full line of all new commemorative merchandise are available at wingertheband.com. Winger is currently hard at work in the studio recording a new album.

WebLinks: www.wingertheband.com / www.facebook.com/Officialwinger / www.twitter.com/wingertheband.

[SteveSly]

Not the most glorious period for heavy rock music, but I do think Cinderella were a band that could have held their own at any time. The name and the image is still held against them, which are admittedly as hair-metal as they come, but the music itself is great hard-rock, sort of like AC/DC meets Aerosmith. The songs I know from the 2nd album 'Long Cold Winter' move towards a blues-rock sound which is more akin to (albeit released just before) what The Black Crowes did- and that band are still a popular draw now. Just shows how image can be a real drawback sometimes.

There were a few songs here and there I find palatable by some of the other bands. But Cinderella are the only ones I'd listen to much.

Agreed, if you took away the clothes and overall image these guys could have been another Aeromsith. Lots of bluesy rock to be found with their stuff. A very underated band for sure.

Steve Sly

[SteveSly]

Probably the most under-rated album of the genre. A real gem.

I agree, "3 Sides To Every Story" is still one of my favorite albums of the 90's regardless of genere. The production was also stellar as it still sounds fantastic on a good stereo today. In some ways Extreme were a victim of their own success. "More Than Words" forever painted them as a hair metal ballad band that the girls could like, but "3 Sides" (and to a lesser extent "Pornographitti") shows what a versitle band they were and that they could really rank right up with the best of that decade from both a songwriting and instrumental perspective.

Steve Sly

[JIF]

Probably the most under-rated album of the genre. A real gem.I agree. I think I shall play that today.

[Mikhael]

I agree, "3 Sides To Every Story" is still one of my favorite albums of the 90's regardless of genere. The production was also stellar as it still sounds fantastic on a good stereo today. In some ways Extreme were a victim of their own success. "More Than Words" forever painted them as a hair metal ballad band that the girls could like, but "3 Sides" (and to a lesser extent "Pornographitti") shows what a versitle band they were and that they could really rank right up with the best of that decade from both a songwriting and instrumental perspective.

Steve Sly

Well, the production was of it's time, too. My biggest problem with the hair-metal bands was: WHERE'S THE @#$% BASS GUITAR?!?

For a pop-rock band, Mr. Big really kicked butt. And Blue Murder, and Badlands? I thought they were great. Blue Murder was what Whitesnake should've been...

[Cuz]

Well, the production was of it's time, too. My biggest problem with the hair-metal bands was: WHERE'S THE @#$% BASS GUITAR?!?



Couldn't agree more. It wasn't just hair metal though, I think the 80s in general had a mix that really "buried" the bass guitar. There were a few notable exceptions, like Motorhead, Iron Maiden, etc.. It's funny, but most of your AM pop from the 70s has a mix where you can hear the bass clear as day.

[GuitarGeek]

Couldn't agree more. It wasn't just hair metal though, I think the 80s in general had a mix that really "buried" the bass guitar. There were a few notable exceptions, like Motorhead, Iron Maiden, etc.. It's funny, but most of your AM pop from the 70s has a mix where you can hear the bass clear as day.

Yeah, that's because Motorhead and Iron Maiden were led by their respective bass players, so yeah, of course they'd be nice and loud in the mix.

The only time you could really hear the bass in 80's music was in "dance" music, and then usually it was a synth, either the Mini-Moog or Taurus style sawtooth bass patch or the dreaded DX-7 style "slap" bass patch.

[GuitarGeek]

In some ways Extreme were a victim of their own success. "More Than Words" forever painted them as a hair metal ballad band that the girls could like,

Well, that happened to everyone who had a hit off a ballad, wasn't it? I know the Foreigner guys complained about how I Want To Know What Love Is ruined them, because they had to make more songs like that, either because the record company wanted to repeat the hit formula (which rarely works) or because "We have to play to the audience who made the ballad the hit, because they don't like rock music" or whatever.

But the thing about More Than Words was, it was really different from anything you heard on the radio at the time. It's just acoustic guitar and vocal. I guess at the time the "Unplugged" phenomenon was already in full swing, but when you heard "ballads" on the radio, they were either overproduced pop records with that damn DX-7 electric piano sound and all the other trappings of 80's/early 90's pop music, or it was the big "power ballad" thing with the big Phil Collins style drums and heavy guitar tones. I think I even read at the time where Nuno said that they were deliberately trying to do something different with that song. Unfortunately, the record company chose that as the single, and that changed things.

I remember watching an interview where either Nuno or Gary said the reason Hole Hearted was the next single after More Than Words was because it was up tempo built was still relatively mild in comparison to their usual hard rock sound. I guess they were worried if they had released one of the hard rock songs, it would "frighten away" everyone who bought the More Than Words single or whatever.

[Scott Bails]

I remember watching an interview where either Nuno or Gary said the reason Hole Hearted was the next single after More Than Words was because it was up tempo built was still relatively mild in comparison to their usual hard rock sound. I guess they were worried if they had released one of the hard rock songs, it would "frighten away" everyone who bought the More Than Words single or whatever.

I always thought that was a brilliant move. But I think the band really, really wanted "Get the Funk Out" to be the song that they were known for.

Great song - shame that it never took off.

[JJ88]

With Foreigner, the 'rock' songs were not as good as the ballads anyway IMHO. I like the atmospheric synths on all those ballads.

I remember quite liking that White Lion track 'Wait'.

[KELLY WELSH]

House of Lords were very good.Heart were THE band."Heart" and "Bad Animals ", two absolute classics.

[GuitarGeek]

With Foreigner, the 'rock' songs were not as good as the ballads anyway IMHO. I like the atmospheric synths on all those ballads.



Yeah, but the point was they went from being known as a "rock" group that did ballads occasionally to being known as a "ballads band", and I think at least some of the guys in the band felt that hurt them in the long run.

[JKL2000]

Not the most glorious period for heavy rock music, but I do think Cinderella were a band that could have held their own at any time.


Yeah, they look...musically talented. Why the heck didn't they spell it Sinderella? Seems obvious to me.

http://www.politusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/cinderella.jpeg

[ThomasKDye]

But the thing about More Than Words was, it was really different from anything you heard on the radio at the time.

At the same time, it's also a very elaborate, well-constructed song, with an engaging melody, sweet harmonies, and twistily sympathetic chord changes. Not to keep bashing Diane Warren (oh, hell, bash away) but contrast that to the frickin' repetitive I-VIm-IV-V shit of "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now" (with those horrible synth dressings as described by GuitarGeek). It was simple in arrangement but complex in structure, with enough changes to keep one hooked while still feeling direct and unadorned.

I don't put "More Than Words" into the same category as, oh, "Babe" or whatever for that reason. For all its pretenses of being just a love song, it's really indicative of the potential of the art of songwriting.

[arabicadabra]

Gruno said: >Why did it feel like a blow? Rod made the choice to be in the band and appears to have embraced it: <

A blow FOR the musos, as in, a GREAT VICTORY! A blow TO the musos would have meant a defeat of sorts. I think Winger are/were great. I meant that it was GREAT to see Rod play his wacked out version of 4/4 on MTV while the big haired girls tried to dance to it....

[GuitarGeek]

Not to keep bashing Diane Warren

No, by all times, go ahead. She deserves every bit of criticism she receives. Maybe it's more the fault of managers and record companies that good honest rock groups like...well, Starship wasn't an honest rock group anymore, and to tell you the truth, neither was Aerosmith by the time they did one of her songs, but there's no reason rock groups should be singing shitty pop ballads.

It's mind-boggling to me that a band like Aerosmith could go from beautiful songs like You See Me Crying and Home Tonight to doing dreck like I Wouldn't Miss A Thing. :roll

[SteveSly]

Well, the production was of it's time, too. My biggest problem with the hair-metal bands was: WHERE'S THE @#$% BASS GUITAR?!?

For a pop-rock band, Mr. Big really kicked butt. And Blue Murder, and Badlands? I thought they were great. Blue Murder was what Whitesnake should've been...

I forgot about Blue Murder. They were great and should have been bigger than they were considering it was practically an all-star lineup. I saw them on a bill with Kings X and Billy Squire and thought they were great. Mr. Big was also one hell of a lineup even though I was not really a fan of their stuff. Never really heard much badlands so can’t comment on them.

Steve Sly

[Gruno]

House of Lords were very good.Heart were THE band."Heart" and "Bad Animals ", two absolute classics.

precisely!

[klothos]

I liked Night Ranger, Extreme, and a few others, but there always had to be some musicianship there.

Before Night Ranger, Jack Blades and Brad Gillis both played in an R&B/fusion/funk band called Rubicon......check out Jack Blades thumpin' this Jazz bass.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4hI_qEk5q8

[JIF]

Well, the production was of it's time, too. My biggest problem with the hair-metal bands was: WHERE'S THE @#$% BASS GUITAR?!?

For a pop-rock band, Mr. Big really kicked butt. And Blue Murder, and Badlands? I thought they were great. Blue Murder was what Whitesnake should've been...What does that mean:"Blue Murder is what Whitesnake should've been"?


Well, that happened to everyone who had a hit off a ballad, wasn't it? I know the Foreigner guys complained about how I Want To Know What Love Is ruined them, because they had to make more songs like that, either because the record company wanted to repeat the hit formula (which rarely works) or because "We have to play to the audience who made the ballad the hit, because they don't like rock music" or whatever.

But the thing about More Than Words was, it was really different from anything you heard on the radio at the time. It's just acoustic guitar and vocal. I guess at the time the "Unplugged" phenomenon was already in full swing, but when you heard "ballads" on the radio, they were either overproduced pop records with that damn DX-7 electric piano sound and all the other trappings of 80's/early 90's pop music, or it was the big "power ballad" thing with the big Phil Collins style drums and heavy guitar tones. I think I even read at the time where Nuno said that they were deliberately trying to do something different with that song. Unfortunately, the record company chose that as the single, and that changed things.

I remember watching an interview where either Nuno or Gary said the reason Hole Hearted was the next single after More Than Words was because it was up tempo built was still relatively mild in comparison to their usual hard rock sound. I guess they were worried if they had released one of the hard rock songs, it would "frighten away" everyone who bought the More Than Words single or whatever.Get The Funk Out was released as a single before More Than Words, but it tanked. So, there you go.


With Foreigner, the 'rock' songs were not as good as the ballads anyway IMHO. I like the atmospheric synths on all those ballads.

I remember quite liking that White Lion track 'Wait'.Huh? Are you saying that Waiting For A Girl Like You and I Want To Know What Love Is are better songs than Hot Blooded or Double Vision?

[GuitarGeek]

Get The Funk Out was released as a single before More Than Words, but it tanked. So, there you go.



That was standard operating procedure, ie you released the uptempo song as the first single, then the second single was the ballad. That's how most of the glam metal bands were marketed. Night Ranger, Whitesnake, Scorpions, Cinderella, Poison, Warrant, etc all used the exact maneuver. The whole idea, I think, the idea was to draw the attention of the male fans (or at least the fans who wanted to "rock n roll or boogie", to quote David Byron on Uriah Heep Live) and the ballad drew in the girls or at least the more "sensitive" types or whatever.

And I know their fans don't like to think of them as "glam metal" or "hair metal" or whatever, but Skid Row did the same thing on their first album too. First single was Youth Gone Wild, second single was Eighteen And Life. And then the third single was another ballad, I Remember You.

In the case of Winger, I think the power ballad was actually the third single off their first album. I think Madelaine and Seventeen were the first two singles, then Headin' For A Heartbreak, so maybe they wanted to prove they weren't just a "wimpy ballads band" as some of the groups around at the time were starting to turn out to be (paging, Warrant).

[JJ88]

Huh? Are you saying that Waiting For A Girl Like You and I Want To Know What Love Is are better songs than Hot Blooded or Double Vision?

I am- other opinions are allowed. I think those are well-written and executed songs, as was 'That Was Yesterday'. I don't mind 'Double Vision' but for me a song like 'Hot Blooded' (and 'Juke Box Hero') is pure cliche. And to JKL2000, I did already flag up the undoubted awfulness of Cinderella's name and image in the same post you quoted from. So that sarcasm was unnecessary. Musically, I think some of their work holds up well, but I only have a best-of. That's all I need, it draws from 4 albums I think.

I never got too much into Motley Crue's music, only having that 2-cd best of that came out when they reformed, though I did quite like 'Wild Side' and some of the things in the late 80s like 'Dr.Feelgood'.

Certainly Heart and Whitesnake dived in head-first when it came to the image, but musically I find the work of these bands in this period miles ahead of the younger bands. For all the high-gloss production values, it's melodic hard-rock of the kind that always stands up IMHO. I actually think the '1987' album is the best thing Whitesnake ever did.

[JIF]

I am- other opinions are allowed. I think those are well-written and executed songs, as was 'That Was Yesterday'. I don't mind 'Double Vision' but for me a song like 'Hot Blooded' (and 'Juke Box Hero') is pure cliche. And to JKL2000, I did already flag up the undoubted awfulness of Cinderella's name and image in the same post you quoted from. So that sarcasm was unnecessary. Musically, I think some of their work holds up well, but I only have a best-of. That's all I need, it draws from 4 albums I think.

I never got too much into Motley Crue's music, only having that 2-cd best of that came out when they reformed, though I did quite like 'Wild Side' and some of the things in the late 80s like 'Dr.Feelgood'.

Certainly Heart and Whitesnake dived in head-first when it came to the image, but musically I find the work of these bands in this period miles ahead of the younger bands. For all the high-gloss production values, it's melodic hard-rock of the kind that always stands up IMHO. I actually think the '1987' album is the best thing Whitesnake ever did.Hot Blooded and Juke Box Hero don't sound cliche to me. Not many bands were mixing hard rock and r&b. Btw, what sarcasm are you talking about?

[Scott Bails]

Get The Funk Out was released as a single before More Than Words, but it tanked. So, there you go.


And then they released it again, after "Hole Hearted," as it was the song they wanted to be known for.

[Mikhael]

Reply to JIF: "Blue Murder was what Whitesnake should've been"; I was referring to the fact that it was John Sykes' effort after getting canned from Whitesnake. Although I liked that Whitesnake album okay, I liked Blue Murder's debut more.

And Mr. Big had the same problem as Extreme; that single "Be With You" wasn't representative of their hard rockin' sound, but it was the hit they became known for. I can just imagine the teenage girls coming to see them, and they open with "Daddy, Brother, Lover, Little Boy", with Billy and Paul doing the electric drill thing...

[Cuz]

Reply to JIF: "And Mr. Big had the same problem as Extreme; that single "Be With You" wasn't representative of their hard rockin' sound,


Mr. Big had a hard rocking sound? Compared to who, Air Supply? I know they had talent up the whazoo, I even bought the first album because of Billy Sheehan, but they were not heavy in the slightest.

[JKL2000]

The thing that's crazy is that there are a lot of big cats that could TOTALLY take on a white lion...

[Plasmatopia]

Just checking out some White Lion on YouTube. Definitely more to this band than the syrupy ballads. I'd say Extreme borrowed heavily...

Speaking of Extreme, there is another band called Scatterbrain that reminds me very much of Extreme. Anyone familiar with them? The drummer from my band raves about 'em.

[Scott Bails]

Just checking out some White Lion on YouTube. Definitely more to this band than the syrupy ballads. I'd say Extreme borrowed heavily...


I don't know about that. Nuno and Bratta both worshipped at the altar of EVH, no doubt, but after that, the similarities end, IMO.

White Lion is all straight-ahead rock, while Extreme added elements of funk, rap, and art rock.

Love both, but I always thought they were rather different within the genre.

[Plasmatopia]

Well, the production was of it's time, too. My biggest problem with the hair-metal bands was: WHERE'S THE @#$% BASS GUITAR?!?


Hmmm...never had a problem hearing it!

[Plasmatopia]

I don't know about that. Nuno and Bratta both worshipped at the altar of EVH, no doubt, but after that, the similarities end, IMO.

White Lion is all straight-ahead rock, while Extreme added elements of funk, rap, and art rock.

Love both, but I always thought they were rather different within the genre.

I'm not going to argue with that -- Extreme definitely added more elements and White Lion was more straight-ahead from the stuff I just heard. But I hear some core similarities.

[JIF]

Mr. Big had a hard rocking sound? Compared to who, Air Supply? I know they had talent up the whazoo, I even bought the first album because of Billy Sheehan, but they were not heavy in the slightest.No one said Mr. Big was heavy. No no said Extreme was heavy. They were both just hard rock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck3MuHqYRLM
If this song doesn't kick ass, then I don't know what does. This does definitely sound like Air Supply. ;)

[JIF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwYLTyxZP_0
The song that gave Mr. Big their name. It's a Free cover.

[Plasmatopia]

This has been an interesting and even educational thread. I was never aware of Blue Murder before now for example and I now have a completely different idea of what White Lion was all about. I'm not a huge fan of this genre despite the fact that I play this type of stuff in my band. I always avoided the radio since I started on this "music thing" back in '81.

This thread gave me a few ideas for tunes my band could learn. This stuff can be fun to play, but it's not something I can listen to very often or for very long. Because I avoided the radio I don't have the nostalgia factor for most of this stuff. And even if I liked a song that trickled through the radio speakers during a moment of weakness and inconvenience (haha!), the images on MTV never resonated.

[SteveSly]

Just checking out some White Lion on YouTube. Definitely more to this band than the syrupy ballads. I'd say Extreme borrowed heavily...

Speaking of Extreme, there is another band called Scatterbrain that reminds me very much of Extreme. Anyone familiar with them? The drummer from my band raves about 'em.

I remember seeing some Scatterbrain videos on headbangers ball back in the day and thought they were pretty good. Never explored them further though.

Steve Sly

[Jefferson James]

Always had a soft spot (right in the middle of my skull) for glam metal or whatever you wanna call it; bands like Ratt, Warrant, Guns n Roses, Love/Hate -- bands who could clearly write a catchy-ass tune -- turned me on. Concurrently I was into Alcatrazz and Racer X, bands with less commercial appeal but chops up the ass. Then things got formulaic and suddenly everyone sounded sooooo slick, bands like Firehouse, Slaughter, White Loin. I know those bands were talented but it seemed to me they were following trends and listening to A-ummm-R reps rather than trying to sound original. All good, they made some bank and must have had the time of their lives.

I would've traded my job at Wells Fargo for a gig in Firehouse in a flash, please believe.

I was very glad when the tides began to turn in the late '80s/early '90s, that weird grey zone when bands like Enuff z' Nuff, Jellyfish, Kings X and Faith No More started blurring the lines, then blatantly poppy stuff like Teenage Fanclub started appearing and, the next thing you know, Nirvana exploded and wiped the slate clean (for the time being; then "grunge" became the new hair metal, the genre du jour).

I owe all those glam/hair metal bands a debt of gratitude because it was there -- under clouds of hairspray and cigarette smoke -- I learned how to play lead guitar. As formulaic as the songs were, there's no denying the shred-fest many of us guitarists enjoyed and desperately tried to emulate.

I think it's weird that I never, ever re-visit any of that stuff anymore unless it's a VH1 Behind the Music kind of thing; I just don't feel like hearing that kind of simple pop-rock anymore. Even the "new" Van Halen (which were mostly old songs IIRC) doesn't spark my candlesticks the way it used to.

Now, I listen to Beyonce and try to manage a smile.

[JIF]

Always had a soft spot (right in the middle of my skull) for glam metal or whatever you wanna call it; bands like Ratt, Warrant, Guns n Roses, Love/Hate -- bands who could clearly write a catchy-ass tune -- turned me on. Concurrently I was into Alcatrazz and Racer X, bands will less commercial appeal but chops up the ass. Then things got formulaic and suddenly everyone sounded sooooo slick, bands like Firehouse, Slaughter, White Loin. I know those bands were talented but it seemed to me they were following trends and listening to A-ummm-R reps rather than trying to sound original. All good, they made some bank and must have had the time of their lives.

I would've traded my job at Wells Fargo for a gig in Firehouse in a flash, please believe.

I was very glad when the tides began to turn in the late '80s/early '90s, that weird grey zone when bands like Enuff z' Nuff, Jellyfish, Kings X and Faith No More started blurring the lines, then blatantly poppy stuff like Teenage Fanclub started appearing and, the next thing you know, Nirvana exploded and wiped the slate clean (for the time being; then "grunge" became the new hair metal, the genre du jour).

I owe all those glam/hair metal bands a debt of gratitude because it was there -- under clouds of hairspray and cigarette smoke -- I learned how to play lead guitar. As formulaic as the songs were, there's no denying the shred-fest many of us guitarists enjoyed and desperately tried to emulate.

I think it's weird that I never, ever re-visit any of that stuff anymore unless it's a VH1 Behind the Music kind of thing; I just don't feel like hearing that kind of simple pop-rock anymore. Even the "new" Van Halen (which were mostly old songs IIRC) doesn't spark my candlesticks the way it used to.

Now, I listen to Beyonce and try to manage a smile.That last statement leads me to believe that you've written off A Different Kind Of Truth without even hearing it. Only the two opening songs are simple "pop rock". The rest, like Honeysweetiebabydoll, is heavy and complex. C'mon, Kerry, as a musician you should know better. ;)

[Jefferson James]

That last statement leads me to believe that you've written off A Different Kind Of Truth without even hearing it. Only the two opening songs are simple "pop rock". The rest, like Honeysweetiebabydoll, is heavy and complex. C'mon, Kerry, as a musician you should know better. ;)

I know better than to listen to you, Jif. ;) As a "musician" I know I'm fucking bored with that style of music -- it didn't have any staying power for me aside from a few songs or guitar solos. That's ok, I'm sure Van Halen are doing fine without my input or support. :)

[JIF]

I know better than to listen to you, Jif. ;) As a "musician" I know I'm fucking bored with that style of music -- it didn't have any staying power for me aside from a few songs or guitar solos. That's ok, I'm sure Van Halen are doing fine without my input or support. :)They did have a #3 album last year. Hey, why are you getting mad at me? You're the one that called Van Halen "simple pop rock". Only a few of there songs are "simple pop rock".

[Jefferson James]

Hey Jif, just to clarify, I didn't call Van Halen "simple pop rock"; I said their new album (which is really mainly older songs from the era when I loved the band) didn't "spark my candlesticks". I have heard the entire album a couple of times and while it's definitely vintage Van Halen sounding, it's not the kind of music I'm seeking out anymore. Beyonce is where my head is at these days. And The Shaggs -- goddamn, I am loving The Shaggs lately!

As for getting mad at you, I would never allow such a thing to happen, Jif; you are a passionate person with your own set of values and opinions, and you make Progressive Ears a better place with your presence (and cool avatar). I think you're funny and have valuable things to say and I, for one, appreciate your opinions in spite of almost never being in agreement with them.

Do you feel me?

[JIF]

Hey Jif, just to clarify, I didn't call Van Halen "simple pop rock"; I said their new album (which is really mainly older songs from the era when I loved the band) didn't "spark my candlesticks". I have heard the entire album a couple of times and while it's definitely vintage Van Halen sounding, it's not the kind of music I'm seeking out anymore. Beyonce is where my head is at these days. And The Shaggs -- goddamn, I am loving The Shaggs lately!

As for getting mad at you, I would never allow such a thing to happen, Jif; you are a passionate person with your own set of values and opinions, and you make Progressive Ears a better place with your presence (and cool avatar). I think you're funny and have valuable things to say and I, for one, appreciate your opinions in spite of almost never being in agreement with them.

Do you feel me?Yeah, I feel ya. Btw, I would've never figured a prog musician to be a Beyonce fan.

[Jefferson James]

If you feel me again I will have no choice but to report you to the mods. ;) Thanks, brah.

As for Beyonce, I'm not a fan of her music, I'm a fan of THAT DAMNED BILLBOARD ALL OVER SAN FERNANDO VALLEY WITH HER RIGHTEOUS BODY ALL UP IN MY FACE!

Do they have those billboards down your way? I think it's a Pepsi campaign but really, all I see is THAT BODY.

[JIF]

If you feel me again I will have no choice but to report you to the mods. ;) Thanks, brah.

As for Beyonce, I'm not a fan of her music, I'm a fan of THAT DAMNED BILLBOARD ALL OVER SAN FERNANDO VALLEY WITH HER RIGHTEOUS BODY ALL UP IN MY FACE!

Do they have those billboards down your way? I think it's a Pepsi campaign but really, all I see is THAT BODY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cwUZ1rzerg

[Jefferson James]

Haha! Good one man. Believe it or not, that is the first time I've heard Adrenaline Mob. And by God I hope it's the last! ;)

[JIF]

Haha! Good one man. Believe it or not, that is the first time I've heard Adrenaline Mob. And by God I hope it's the last! ;)I just thought that was the logical response to post #114.

[Vic2012]

I never got too much into Motley Crue's music, only having that 2-cd best of that came out when they reformed, though I did quite like 'Wild Side' and some of the things in the late 80s like 'Dr.Feelgood'.

I hate Dr. Feelgood so much I gave it away. I just wanted the damn thing out of my site. I'd gotten that album because I heard/saw/read a lot of praise by other hard/rock/metal musicians. It was the reason Metallica wanted Bob Rock to produce the Black Album. So I bought the thing only being familiar with the title track (which I always thought had a nice slamming groove). Well, in short, it sucked. I just thought it was all cheeze whizz, LA glam scene crap. I thought about maybe taking another chance on Motley with one of the earlier albums but then decided, enough already. I don't like the LA glam sound. I know Van Halen busted the doors open on that LA scene but they were never "glam" or "hair metal." Yes, EVH was the biggest influence on guitar players of that whole scene but VH was a lightning fast boogie/metal band.

[The Silent Man]

There's some pretty good stuff on the first White Lion album. In The City and El Salvador are great songs, and as far removed from vapid Motley Crue shit as you could find.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsFPyq6aksg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOW5H7uVVUY

[JIF]

I hate Dr. Feelgood so much I gave it away. I just wanted the damn thing out of my site. I'd gotten that album because I heard/saw/read a lot of praise by other hard/rock/metal musicians. It was the reason Metallica wanted Bob Rock to produce the Black Album. So I bought the thing only being familiar with the title track (which I always thought had a nice slamming groove). Well, in short, it sucked. I just thought it was all cheeze whizz, LA glam scene crap. I thought about maybe taking another chance on Motley with one of the earlier albums but then decided, enough already. I don't like the LA glam sound. I know Van Halen busted the doors open on that LA scene but they were never "glam" or "hair metal." Yes, EVH was the biggest influence on guitar players of that whole scene but VH was a lightning fast boogie/metal band.Dr. Feelgood is not glam or hair metal. It presents a more blues based Crue.

[Vic2012]

Dr. Feelgood is not glam or hair metal. It presents a more blues based Crue.

You coulda fooled me. I thought it was crap.

[spacefreak]

I have no interest at all in glam metal or related stuff. I only like a few Great White albums and first two Y&T -but these were only loosely related to the genre.

[Cuz]

You coulda fooled me. I thought it was crap.

Agreed. The song itself is pretty good, but the rest of the album is shite. I thought so when it came out and I heard it a few years ago and my opinion didn't change.

Their first album (Too Fast For Love), on the other hand, is great.

[ThomasKDye]

Agreed. The song itself is pretty good, but the rest of the album is shite.

I remember there was one song on there that "borrowed" the coda concept from the Beatles' "I Want You (She's So Heavy)". That was the only other cool bit on that album IMO.

[JKL2000]

Were Def Leppard hair metal? Discuss...

[Scott Bails]

They're usually lumped in with the whole NWOBHM crowd, but I think we found out that they were really a glam band that wanted to do power pop.

[JIF]

They're usually lumped in with the whole NWOBHM crowd, but I think we found out that they were really a glam band that wanted to do power pop.Leppard were never glam. They didn't have the makeup or costumes.

[Scott Bails]

Leppard were never glam. They didn't have the makeup or costumes.

Maybe not, but you can't say they weren't influenced by T-Rex, Bowie, etc.

[Bungalow Bill]

The best hair metal band was Angel...not necessarily a great band, but a good one, and they invented the genre long before Headbangers Ball...

[mitchgx]

They're usually lumped in with the whole NWOBHM crowd, but I think we found out that they were really a glam band that wanted to do power pop.

Well, that's where Mutt took them, anyway.

For me, High and Dry remains their high water mark.

[JIF]

Well, that's where Mutt took them, anyway.

For me, High and Dry remains their high water mark.Why no love for Pyromania?

[Gruno]

Leppard were never glam. They didn't have the makeup or costumes.

Close your eyes.

[JIF]

Close your eyes.Okay?

[Gruno]

Okay?

The sound of the music was glam rock. Not their entire career, but it is there. Now, it is the glam rock of the era -- not 70s glam. Just because they didn't go along with the style of wardrobe/makeup doesn't mean they didn't have the glam sound of the day.

[JIF]

The sound of the music was glam rock. Not their entire career, but it is there. Now, it is the glam rock of the era -- not 70s glam. Just because they didn't go along with the style of wardrobe/makeup doesn't mean they didn't have the glam sound of the day.I thought it was just NWOBHM with synths.

[Scott Bails]

The sound of the music was glam rock. Not their entire career, but it is there. Now, it is the glam rock of the era -- not 70s glam. Just because they didn't go along with the style of wardrobe/makeup doesn't mean they didn't have the glam sound of the day.

Bingo.

[klothos]

The best hair metal band was Angel...not necessarily a great band, but a good one, and they invented the genre long before Headbangers Ball...

for, without Angel, there would have been no "Punky" for Bozio to sing about

:ipa Hear Hear

actually, I think Sweet invented the genre. Many of the NWOBHM bands of the 80s all cited Sweet as big influences (as well as Slade). If you look back at what Sweet was doing musically (and this also is including the Chinn/Chapman bubblegum songs as well as the pre-hair metal originals from albums like Sweet Fanny Adams), onstage antics, stage presence, and for PR between '73 - '75 (which predates Angel), its easy to see where the pattern came from....As always, your mileage may vary

[Rufus]

for, without Angel, there would have been no "Punky" for Bozio to sing about

:ipa Hear Hear

actually, I think Sweet invented the genre. Many of the NWOBHM bands of the 80s all cited Sweet as big influences (as well as Slade). If you look back at what Sweet was doing musically (and this also is including the Chinn/Chapman bubblegum songs as well as the pre-hair metal originals from albums like Sweet Fanny Adams), onstage antics, stage presence, and for PR between '73 - '75 (which predates Angel), its easy to see where the pattern came from....As always, your mileage may vary

What he said ...would add Alice Cooper as well !

[SteveSly]

What he said ...would add Alice Cooper as well !



What you both said. No doubt Sweet were a pioneer of this genre, and early Alice as well.

Steve Sly

[SteveSly]

Well, that's where Mutt took them, anyway.

For me, High and Dry remains their high water mark.

Agreed. I've never been a huge Lep fan, but "High And Dry" had some great tunes on it.

Steve Sly

[GuitarGeek]

Agreed. I've never been a huge Lep fan, but "High And Dry" had some great tunes on it.

Steve Sly

All of those first three albums had lots of good songs.

[JIF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oFYu3h1xHY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybICtsy5cJU
Here is some epic Lep.

[mitchgx]

Why no love for Pyromania?

I didn't say I didn't like Pyromania....I just prefer High and Dry.

[GuitarGeek]

Actually I was thinking less of the "epic" sort of things and more of the melodic hard rock kind of things, like these:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q29ZICVHfow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuU0csS1HiM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4asg10LHkk

[trurl]

High and Dry is by far my favorite DL album. All Through The Night had a few good tunes too- isn't Rock Brigade on that album?

[JIF]

High and Dry is by far my favorite DL album. All Through The Night had a few good tunes too- isn't Rock Brigade on that album?Yes. I hope that a deluxe version of On Through The Night comes out someday with the Def Leppard EP, The Warchild songs, and the Nick Tauber re-recordings on it.

[Mikhael]

I went back and listened to Extreme's "III Side to Every Story". Great guitar work, but horrendous production! The bass was an indistinct noteless rumble in the background (typical of 80's hair metal), the drums were samples, and where the heck were the cymbals?!? So far in the background they're mostly inaudible. I was not impressed with the sound, that's for sure.

[klothos]

The bass was an indistinct noteless rumble in the background (typical of 80's hair metal)

The bass tone on this album is terrible, I agree, but I can't apply that philosophy to all of 80s Hair Metal ---- Rachel Bolan (Skid Row) and Jerry Dixon (Warrant) both got rich/round non-muddy punchy bass sounds in the studio just to name two, and there is more. Rick Savage (Def Leppard) also got a decent tone post-Pyromania as well but I'm not sure how much of that was a few one-shot samples of himself manipulated by Mutt Lange with a Fairlight

Your mileage may vary, of course

[JIF]

The bass tone on this album is terrible, I agree, but I can't apply that philosophy to all of 80s Hair Metal ---- Rachel Bolan (Skid Row) and Jerry Dixon (Warrant) both got rich/round non-muddy punchy bass sounds in the studio just to name two, and there is more. Rick Savage (Def Leppard) also got a decent tone post-Pyromania as well but I'm not sure how much of that was a few one-shot samples of himself manipulated by Mutt Lange with a Fairlight

Your mileage may vary, of courseSkid Row and Def Leppard aren't hair metal.

[klothos]

Skid Row and Def Leppard aren't hair metal.

They aren't "Glam Metal" like Motley Crue or Poison -- what Def Leppard and Skid Row are would probably be "Pop-Metal". But, both "Pop Metal" and "Glam Metal" are just sub-sets of the larger "80s Hair Metal" umbrella category ( If we are using boxes with labels to sort out these things) :D

by the way, the criteria for this is just how I read stuff online, in books, or in trade-publications over the years...I didnt make-up these genres :D

[JIF]

I disagree: they aren't "Glam Metal" like Motley Crue or Poison -- Def Leppard and Skid Row they are "Pop-Metal". But, both "Pop Metal" and "Glam Metal" are just sub-sets of the larger "80s Hair Metal" umbrella category ( If we are using boxes with labels to sort out these things) :D

by the way, the criteria for this is just how I read stuff online, in books, or in trade-publications over the yearsHow can you judge an '80s metal band by their hair? Didn't everyone have Bon Jovi hair in the '80s?

[klothos]

How can you judge an '80s metal band by their hair? Didn't everyone have Bon Jovi hair in the '80s?

I didn't make up the term, dude <shrug>

here is yahoo's list

http://music.yahoo.com/blogs/list-of-the-day/the-25-best-hair-metal-bands.html

[JIF]

I didn't make up the term, dude <shrug>

here is yahoo's list

http://music.yahoo.com/blogs/list-of-the-day/the-25-best-hair-metal-bands.htmlAgain, it was kind of a joke. I do remember a quote from Mark Slaughter on one of those VH1 countdown shows "we are a band and have hair, so we must be a hair band".

[klothos]

Again, it was kind of a joke. I do remember a quote from Mark Slaughter on one of those VH1 countdown shows "we are a band and have hair, so we must be a hair band".

For the record: I agree with you...but if you had gone back one page, we were talking about the bass tone of Extreme's "III Sides To Every Story"...The comment that someone made was "The bass was an indistinct noteless rumble in the background (typical of 80's hair metal)".... Extreme certainly wouldn't fall in that category either but its proof that even people here on this forum use the term "80s Hair Metal" loosely as a big umbrella adjective/category :D

EDIT: by the way, JIF, you've been a very fun person to have chats with since I have been here :) Thanks

[Vic2012]

I remember hearing the term "Candy Metal" to describe a lot of those bands. It was all teased hair, puppy dog eyes, and candy coated, pop/rock with widdly widdly guitar.

[JIF]

I remember hearing the term "Candy Metal" to describe a lot of those bands. It was all teased hair, puppy dog eyes, and candy coated, pop/rock with widdly widdly guitar.Never heard of "Candy Metal", but I have heard of "Poodle Rock".

[JIF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmxK9CS3RV0
Was surprised to hear this song on the radio the other day. I like it's sudden change from a bluesy rocker to a ballad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-glG8DGL4
One epic rocker.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX5AKolt6Xk
A White Lion cover.

[JIF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lisnaNRyBcs
Definitely not your typical "hair band" lyrics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsADLc_T1so
This song(particularly Mike Tramp's lead vocal) kinda scares me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzi7ybzCtN4
A tribute to SRV.

[JIF]

For those that think the Crue sux
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FNLu3HQWeo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp7BiskenSM
Here's a bit of r&b for you.

[ThomasKDye]

Thank you, JIF, "Slice of Your Pie" is the "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" pastiche I was thinking of.. though the title makes me embarrassed to say so. ;)

[No Pride]

we were talking about the bass tone of Extreme's "III Sides To Every Story"...The comment that someone made was "The bass was an indistinct noteless rumble in the background (typical of 80's hair metal)".... Extreme certainly wouldn't fall in that category either but its proof that even people here on this forum use the term "80s Hair Metal" loosely as a big umbrella adjective/category
Extreme had the hair and the metal, but they weren't exactly an '80s band, since their debut was released in '89. They were a bit of a "throwback;" their music having more in common with '80s metal than '90s grunge... at least until their 4th album, "Waiting For the Punchline," which felt like they were trying to throw their hat into the grunge ring. Unfortunately for them, they were a little late to the game; people were already starting to burn out on grunge, thanks in no small part to the record industry oversaturating the airwaves with that stuff, like it was the only kind of acceptable rock at the time.

Getting back to the general topic: I was (and still am to some extent) a fan of heavy rock music of the '60s and '70s, but I started losing interest by the '80s. I think a lot of it had to do with how corporate and formulaic it was becoming. In the former decades, it seemed that bands were encouraged to have their own style. You'd never mistake Cream for The Doors or The Jimi Hendrix Experience; everybody was bringing their own unique things to the table; perhaps even moreso in the early '70s with prog's rise to prominence. That all started turning around towards the later part of the '70s and (at least to me) it seemed like heavy rock/metal was following a set of rules by the '80s; conforming to a look and sound that frankly got tiresome to Yours Truly. I suppose "alternative" grunge rock was a rebellion against that, but in the blink of an eye, that movement became as conformist in it's own way; "alternative" became the new standard. If anything, it made me appreciate the more retro-like sounds of bands like Extreme and King's X. I know, I know; some people say KX invented grunge, but aside from the down-tuned guitars, I don't hear much in the way of similarities.

Anyway, I was off on my own musical journey by then... and veering away from rock in general. Don't get me wrong, I was weened on rock 'n roll and it'll always be a part of my musical DNA, just not the biggest part anymore.

[klothos]

Extreme had the hair and the metal, but they weren't exactly an '80s band, since their debut was released in '89. They were a bit of a "throwback;" their music having more in common with '80s metal than '90s grunge... at least until their 4th album, "Waiting For the Punchline," which felt like they were trying to throw their hat into the grunge ring. Unfortunately for them, they were a little late to the game; people were already starting to burn out on grunge, thanks in no small part to the record industry oversaturating the airwaves with that stuff, like it was the only kind of acceptable rock at the time.

:D I feel like a broken record: 80s Hair Metal is a blanket Expression used by many publications, websites, etc to explain the genre before the Grunge Era. JIF is correct that the term is really supposed to apply to the LA Scene, but I guess as time went on, the media (at large) has diluted it to describe the entire movement. Nowadays, it doesnt mean that it had to be in the 1980s ver batim - there is the first 3 1/2 years of the 90s where overlap occurred - Because most of it happened in the 80s, it is probably easier to communicate it as "80s Hair Bands" in which most people probably will get the gyst of the conversation without having to say "You know, those "80s and Early 90s Hair Bands" :D

I made a comment in another post how the years 1989 - 1993 was an excellent time for music because hair bands, Yuppie Synth-Pop with guys dressed like lawyers, and Jheri-Curl were all going out of style and the (Corporate) Industry was looking for the "next big thing" and were, basically, "test-driving" every single genre and cross-over (funk-metal, industrial pop, rap rock, u-name-it) until Nirvana cemented Grunge in 1993 from the foundation Pearl Jam and Soundgarden laid down

The "Twilight of the Era" bands, like Extreme, Saigon Kick, Love/Hate, and Jackyl (just to name a few) were definitely all trying to put some type of twist onto that style of music -- to me, some of these were the most interesting of the genre

[Paulie]

I went back and listened to Extreme's "III Side to Every Story". Great guitar work, but horrendous production! The bass was an indistinct noteless rumble in the background (typical of 80's hair metal), the drums were samples, and where the heck were the cymbals?!? So far in the background they're mostly inaudible. I was not impressed with the sound, that's for sure.:O Not sure what you're listening to (or on), but I've often said that that is one of the best sounding CDs I've ever heard. Big, punchy, and muscular. ESPECIALLY the rhythm section.

[JIF]

:D I feel like a broken record: 80s Hair Metal is a blanket Expression used by many publications, websites, etc to explain the genre before the Grunge Era. JIF is correct that the term is really supposed to apply to the LA Scene, but I guess as time went on, the media (at large) has diluted it to describe the entire movement. Nowadays, it doesnt mean that it had to be in the 1980s ver batim - there is the first 3 1/2 years of the 90s where overlap occurred - Because most of it happened in the 80s, it is probably easier to communicate it as "80s Hair Bands" in which most people probably will get the gyst of the conversation without having to say "You know, those "80s and Early 90s Hair Bands" :D

I made a comment in another post how the years 1989 - 1993 was an excellent time for music because hair bands, Yuppie Synth-Pop with guys dressed like lawyers, and Jheri-Curl were all going out of style and the (Corporate) Industry was looking for the "next big thing" and were, basically, "test-driving" every single genre and cross-over (funk-metal, industrial pop, rap rock, u-name-it) until Nirvana cemented Grunge in 1993 from the foundation Pearl Jam and Soundgarden laid down

The "Twilight of the Era" bands, like Extreme, Saigon Kick, Love/Hate, and Jackyl (just to name a few) were definitely all trying to put some type of twist onto that style of music -- to me, some of these were the most interesting of the genreFunny, I don't recall saying that "Hair Metal" applied to the LA scene, but I wouldn't argue with myself if I did since Quiet Riot, Dokken, Motley Crue, and Great White were all from L.A.

[Mikhael]

:O Not sure what you're listening to (or on), but I've often said that that is one of the best sounding CDs I've ever heard. Big, punchy, and muscular. ESPECIALLY the rhythm section.

Then I shall definitely not trust your ears to mix/master anything I record...

[No Pride]

I made a comment in another post how the years 1989 - 1993 was an excellent time for music because hair bands, Yuppie Synth-Pop with guys dressed like lawyers, and Jheri-Curl were all going out of style and the (Corporate) Industry was looking for the "next big thing" and were, basically, "test-driving" every single genre and cross-over (funk-metal, industrial pop, rap rock, u-name-it) until Nirvana cemented Grunge in 1993 from the foundation Pearl Jam and Soundgarden laid down

The "Twilight of the Era" bands, like Extreme, Saigon Kick, Love/Hate, and Jackyl (just to name a few) were definitely all trying to put some type of twist onto that style of music -- to me, some of these were the most interesting of the genre
Interesting! I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention at the time, but I don't doubt that you're right. I have noticed that when one fad is dying out, there's a little window of opportunity for bands to do something a little more unique. Unfortunately, when one of them catches fire, "the industry" wants everybody else to sound just like them, as was the case with Nirvana. Then that window closes for another decade or so.


:O Not sure what you're listening to (or on), but I've often said that that is one of the best sounding CDs I've ever heard. Big, punchy, and muscular. ESPECIALLY the rhythm section.
I agree; I think "III Sides to Every Story" was a great sounding album.

I discovered Extreme while browsing in a record store. They were playing their latest release at the time, "Pornograffiti." The first thing I noticed was that the guitar player was a badass! Then I noticed how tight the band was and how cool the arrangements were. I still think Nuno Bettencourt is underrated within the rock shredder realm; I think he could hold his own against most of the more famous guys of that ilk.

[dgtlman]

I remember watching Bands Reunited on VH1 and thinking that bassist Share Pederson still looked hot.

2050

[Rufus]

:O Not sure what you're listening to (or on), but I've often said that that is one of the best sounding CDs I've ever heard. Big, punchy, and muscular. ESPECIALLY the rhythm section.


Agree , Three Sides is a great production !

[Mikhael]

Agree , Three Sides is a great production !

How can you possibly say that? Listen to the drum mix: the obnoxious snare sample, and the cymbals way in the background.

[Paulie]

I think you got a lemon. Or maybe a poorly ripped CDR? Just fired it up again and that mix is fkn superb.

[SteveSly]

:O Not sure what you're listening to (or on), but I've often said that that is one of the best sounding CDs I've ever heard. Big, punchy, and muscular. ESPECIALLY the rhythm section.

I think I posted this before, but I also think “Three Sides” sounds fantastic, especially for the era it was recorded in. That being said, I don’t have what most would consider a great stereo system, so maybe if I listened to it on some real hi fidelity equipment I might have a different opinion, but I have always thought it sounded really good.

Steve Sly

[Scott Bails]

As I've often said, I'm far from an audiophile, but I always thought III Sides had pretty good sound. Especially when compared to their contemporaries.


Now, White Lion's Pride has awful production.

[SteveSly]

Extreme had the hair and the metal, but they weren't exactly an '80s band, since their debut was released in '89. They were a bit of a "throwback;" their music having more in common with '80s metal than '90s grunge... at least until their 4th album, "Waiting For the Punchline," which felt like they were trying to throw their hat into the grunge ring. Unfortunately for them, they were a little late to the game; people were already starting to burn out on grunge, thanks in no small part to the record industry oversaturating the airwaves with that stuff, like it was the only kind of acceptable rock at the time.

.

“Waiting For The Puchline” was probably one of my most disappointing albums ever. I loved “Three Sides” so much that I was really looking forward to “Punchline” when it came out, but thought it was a total letdown. Their back to basics approach and attempt to move more into grunge territory totally backfired to my ears. It has been years since I listened to it, so I wonder if I would have a different opinion today? Unfortunately I sold it to a used CD store many moons ago.

Steve Sly

[Scott Bails]

“Waiting For The Puchline” was probably one of my most disappointing albums ever. I loved “Three Sides” so much that I was really looking forward to “Punchline” when it came out, but thought it was a total letdown. Their back to basics approach and attempt to move more into grunge territory totally backfired to my ears. It has been years since I listened to it, so I wonder if I would have a different opinion today? Unfortunately I sold it to a used CD store many moons ago.

Steve Sly

I had the same reaction, Steve. Very different production and songwriting, and not at all what I was looking for. I love Extreme for the way they fused funk with hard rock, and Punchline seemed to abandon that.

However, I've since added most of the tracks to my "Hard Rock Workout" playlist, and most of them sound pretty good.


I love their most recent album, Saudades de Rock. A lot of variety, great songwriting, and of course, Nuno hasn't lost anything off his playing. I hope they plan on making another one.

[GuitarGeek]

“Waiting For The Puchline” was probably one of my most disappointing albums ever. I loved “Three Sides” so much that I was really looking forward to “Punchline” when it came out, but thought it was a total letdown. Their back to basics approach and attempt to move more into grunge territory totally backfired to my ears.

I wonder if there was heavy pressure from the record company to "go grunge". You can just imagine the meeting with the A&R department..."Boys, you make nice music, I won't fault you for that, but what you guys are doing, it isn't in anymore, ya know?! You know who our biggest seller was last quarter? Alice In Chains!! That's the kinda thing ya need to be doing if you're gonna get in airplay here and now in 1995. And you still owe us one more album, so why don't you give me something I can push on radio, even though you and I both know that the record is gonna be buried by the promo department and written off by the media as a desperate attempt at staying relevant".

All of this while the guys are about to pass out from cigar fumes.

[Paulie]

I was disappointed in Punchline as well. I love Paul Geary's drumming and was saddened at his departure after III Sides. He and Badger fit like a glove and provided that massive *punch* I mentioned earlier. Mike Mangini as replacement just didn't cut it for me on that release.

[Mikhael]

I think you got a lemon. Or maybe a poorly ripped CDR? Just fired it up again and that mix is fkn superb.

I have the official CD release. I played it on my Mackie HR824s, and the mix is just not that good. The drums especially are out of whack on it. I don't care for sample replacement, and the snare reminds me of what was done to Portnoy's snare on I&W. The cymbals are way in the background, for whatever reason.

The guitar and vocals sound very nice. The rhythm section, not so much. Was there two different releases of this? Mine has the fold-out insert with all the lyrics on it.

[SteveSly]

I wonder if there was heavy pressure from the record company to "go grunge". You can just imagine the meeting with the A&R department..."Boys, you make nice music, I won't fault you for that, but what you guys are doing, it isn't in anymore, ya know?! You know who our biggest seller was last quarter? Alice In Chains!! That's the kinda thing ya need to be doing if you're gonna get in airplay here and now in 1995. And you still owe us one more album, so why don't you give me something I can push on radio, even though you and I both know that the record is gonna be buried by the promo department and written off by the media as a desperate attempt at staying relevant".

All of this while the guys are about to pass out from cigar fumes.

I always kind of assumed that was the case considering that “Three Sides” sold a lot less than it’s predecessor had.

Steve Sly

[klothos]

I wonder if there was heavy pressure from the record company to "go grunge". You can just imagine the meeting with the A&R department..."Boys, you make nice music, I won't fault you for that, but what you guys are doing, it isn't in anymore, ya know?! You know who our biggest seller was last quarter? Alice In Chains!! That's the kinda thing ya need to be doing if you're gonna get in airplay here and now in 1995. And you still owe us one more album, so why don't you give me something I can push on radio, even though you and I both know that the record is gonna be buried by the promo department and written off by the media as a desperate attempt at staying relevant".

All of this while the guys are about to pass out from cigar fumes.


Rewind 30+ years, switch out "Grunge" for "Disco", and substitute your late-70s band of choice to be choking on the cigar smoke

<------ hums "I was made for lovin' you, baby, you were made for lovin' meeeee......"

[Plasmatopia]

I still really like Punchline. The one I never got into was the first one.

[JIF]

I still really like Punchline. The one I never got into was the first one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofNSMbNC1wU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-N0YR3R4yo
These are two great ballads from Extreme's debut.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8S7MKbYcKQ
I've liked this song since I heard it in the movie Jury Duty. I like Extreme's debut very much. I got it because some of it was produced by Mack(who has worked with Queen).

[sonic]

As I've often said, I'm far from an audiophile, but I always thought III Sides had pretty good sound. Especially when compared to their contemporaries.




I think I posted this before, but I also think “Three Sides” sounds fantastic, especially for the era it was recorded in. That being said, I don’t have what most would consider a great stereo system, so maybe if I listened to it on some real hi fidelity equipment I might have a different opinion, but I have always thought it sounded really good.

Steve Sly


I think you got a lemon. Or maybe a poorly ripped CDR? Just fired it up again and that mix is fkn superb.


Agree , Three Sides is a great production !


:O Not sure what you're listening to (or on), but I've often said that that is one of the best sounding CDs I've ever heard. Big, punchy, and muscular. ESPECIALLY the rhythm section.
Put me down as another who thinks Three Sides sounds great.

[Plasmatopia]

I think it's just different preferences when it comes to the mix. Sometimes the drums are a bit much, but I think they fit the over-the-top vibe of many of the songs. I probably would have preferred a more natural drum sound though. Hard to tell without having such a version to compare.

There are times when the bass is quite audible and well defined. The times when it is not are perhaps not so important -- sort of the Myung effect/syndrome where he's playing the same thing as the guitar.

[trurl]

Good grief- the bass on that album even cuts through in Youtube videos.

[No Pride]

“Waiting For The Puchline” was probably one of my most disappointing albums ever.
I felt that way initially, but I came to like it. Not as much as the previous two mind you, but once I accepted it on it's own terms and left my expectations (based on those two previous ones) behind, I thought it was a pretty good album. It's very "live" sounding to me, almost like you're sitting in the room with them while they're playing. I'll admit, some of the tunes (like "No Respect") get on my nerves. And I do miss the slicker production and arranging. Oh well...


I was disappointed in Punchline as well. I love Paul Geary's drumming and was saddened at his departure after III Sides. He and Badger fit like a glove and provided that massive *punch* I mentioned earlier. Mike Mangini as replacement just didn't cut it for me on that release.
Er... Mangini's only on three tracks; Hip Today, Leave Me Alone and No Respect. Geary's on the other 8 tracks.


I like Extreme's debut very much.
That's the only one I never got for some reason; in fact I think those tracks you posted are the first time I've heard any of that stuff. Not bad, although the next two are a considerable improvement.


I think it's just different preferences when it comes to the mix.
Yeah. I think our tastes and opinions of production, recording and mix are often as strong as our feelings about the music itself, whether we realize it or not. I never noticed that the snare was sampled. I do now, but it doesn't bother me, maybe because I'm so used to it. And I always thought the bass was pretty much how a bass should sound in a rock/metal production. I have no trouble hearing what he's playing, as opposed to most of DT's recordings.

[Paulie]

Er... Mangini's only on three tracks; Hip Today, Leave Me Alone and No Respect. Geary's on the other 8 tracks.Thanks for the jog to my fuzzy memory. Funny, 20 years ago I actually knew this. What a drag it is getting old. :geezer Maybe I should dig this out for a re-spin as it's been off my radar in as much time.

[GuitarGeek]

Rewind 30+ years, switch out "Grunge" for "Disco", and substitute your late-70s band of choice to be choking on the cigar smoke

<------ hums "I was made for lovin' you, baby, you were made for lovin' meeeee......"

Your point being what? Record companies have always tried to push their veteran artists into making records that will be "contemporary for today's market". Listen to the stuff people like Neil Diamond, Aretha Franklin or Barbra Streisand did during the 80's, for instance. Even worse, listen to what people like Frankie Laine and Tennessee Ernie Ford were doing in the late 60's or early 70's (ie desecrating the Pete Townshend and Paul McCartney song books).

[klothos]

Your point being what? Record companies have always tried to push their veteran artists into making records that will be "contemporary for today's market". Listen to the stuff people like Neil Diamond, Aretha Franklin or Barbra Streisand did during the 80's, for instance. Even worse, listen to what people like Frankie Laine and Tennessee Ernie Ford were doing in the late 60's or early 70's (ie desecrating the Pete Townshend and Paul McCartney song books).

My point was "agreeing with your point for the reasons you just mentioned in this quote" :D

[JIF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6ao_fBm8EE
Don't care that these guys were a Zep clone, I still love this song.

[Gruno]

Any fans of Hardline? Featured Neal Schon. I enjoyed their debut album.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ6sR0UBvDM

[Vic2012]

I know, I know; some people say KX invented grunge, but aside from the down-tuned guitars, I don't hear much in the way of similarities.

I never got that about Kings X "inventing grunge" either. They weren't prog either. Kings X was a melodic, heavy metal band. They were unique in a way (in the late 80s/early 90s anyway). They were a musician's band too. A lot of their fans were metal and grunge musicians. Chris Cornell and James Hetfield loved Kings X back then.

[Mikhael]

I never got that about Kings X "inventing grunge" either. They weren't prog either. Kings X was a melodic, heavy metal band. They were unique in a way (in the late 80s/early 90s anyway). They were a musician's band too. A lot of their fans were metal and grunge musicians. Chris Cornell and James Hetfield loved Kings X back then.

Grunge: because of the down-tuned guitars.
Prog: because of some odd time sigs and such.

I didn't consider them in either camp, but they are a nice band to listen to.

[Vic2012]

but they are a nice band to listen to.

Yeah I was fanatical about them. I saw them live a couple times in small clubs. I got bored with them a few years ago and got into thrash and punk. Ever since I got on this Sabbath kick I have a greater appreciation for Kings X. Awesome band, awesome guys. I met 'em all at one of those club gigs. Very down to earth and really mellow.

[GuitarGeek]

As far as King's X "inventing" grunge goes, I remember reading where Ty Tabor said that when a lot of the grunge bands started releasing records, he was hearing riffs that he insisted were lifted off the first couple King's X albums. That's apparently why he refused to talk about his amps for so many years, because he felt the one thing nobody could steal from him was his tone, so long as he didn't talk about his gear too much.

[Gruno]

As far as King's X "inventing" grunge goes, I remember reading where Ty Tabor said that when a lot of the grunge bands started releasing records, he was hearing riffs that he insisted were lifted off the first couple King's X albums. That's apparently why he refused to talk about his amps for so many years, because he felt the one thing nobody could steal from him was his tone, so long as he didn't talk about his gear too much.

So what if they stole his tone? If someone stole his tone, let the music do the talkin'! Maybe he was insecure about his own music and knew he couldn't compete with many others.

[Vic2012]

^ what a bunch of poppy cock.

[JIF]

^ what a bunch of poppy cock.I agree, Vic. Kings X are very talented, and don't need to compare with anyone else. Furthermore, all discussion of them should cease on this thread, because they aren't, and never were, "hair metal".

[No Pride]

I agree, Vic. Kings X are very talent, and don't need to compare with anyone else. Furthermore, all discussion of them should cease on this thread, because they aren't, and never were, "hair metal".
Well, they did and do have hair (usually), they do play metal and their first two albums were released in the late '80s. Not that I consider them as a "hair metal" band either, of course. But heck, threads are going to go wherever they go... which is fine by me. Sometimes I open a thread that I'm not really that interested in and it ends up going off on a tangent and morphs into something I am interested in. So I'm not into ceasing any discussion other than ones that become political, religion oriented or personally abusive pissing matches. Besides, I'm the one who brought up King's X here in the first place. :)

Anyway, whatever the reason was that Ty Tabor didn't want to reveal the gear he was using, I highly doubt that it had anything to do with insecurity. It ain't a competition in the first place and even if it was some sort of competitive sporting event, Ty would be considered an "all-star."

[Mikhael]

Well, they did and do have hair (usually), they do play metal and their first two albums were released in the late '80s. Not that I consider them as a "hair metal" band either, of course. But heck, threads are going to go wherever they go... which is fine by me. Sometimes I open a thread that I'm not really that interested in and it ends up going off on a tangent and morphs into something I am interested in. So I'm not into ceasing any discussion other than ones that become political, religion oriented or personally abusive pissing matches. Besides, I'm the one who brought up King's X here in the first place. :)

Anyway, whatever the reason was that Ty Tabor didn't want to reveal the gear he was using, I highly doubt that it had anything to do with insecurity. It ain't a competition in the first place and even if it was some sort of competitive sporting event, Ty would be considered an "all-star."

He said in one interview that for one, he didn't want anyone to cop his tone, but that actually he was a little embarrassed by his beat-up Gibson Lab Series solid-state amp. I don't know why - I really liked his tone on those first couple of albums - but that's what he said. Then he finally realized the whole thing was a bit silly, and stopped hiding it.

[JIF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFaP_n3-ApA
What do you all think of this? Btw, does the drummer look familiar?

[iguana]

What do you all think of this? Btw, does the drummer look familiar?

still a great song. mike mangini. ;-)>

i am still blown away how much gary cherone sounds like sammy hagar here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB6yTL6-QE8

[SteveSly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFaP_n3-ApA
What do you all think of this? Btw, does the drummer look familiar?

Of course it is Mike Mangini prior to his getting the Dream Theater gig.

Steve Sly

[JIF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFaP_n3-ApA
What do you all think of this? Btw, does the drummer look familiar?Looks like Mike stole AVH's 1984 era drum kit. Btw, what type of drums are those? They look different than regular drums. Btw, I don't think Mike has aged, and it's cool that he went from a band like Extreme to a band like Dream Theater.


still a great song. mike mangini. ;-)>

i am still blown away how much gary cherone sounds like sammy hagar here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB6yTL6-QE8I actually loved VH III. I only got rid of it because the CD copy I was given didn't last very long. I should look on Amazon for a cheap copy. Btw, Gary looks the same in both vids.

[GuitarGeek]

Looks like Mike stole AVH's 1984 era drum kit. Btw, what type of drums are those? They look different than regular drums


Roto-toms. They're tuned by rotating the head around. And they also have a bit of different tone as compared to conventional tom-toms. I believe Nick Mason used roto-toms on the Time intro. Terry Bozzio had a huge array of roto-toms in his UK era drumkit, or at least he does in the Nothing To Lose video. I think Bruford used them for awhile when he had that solo band with Holdsworth and Berlin.

[JIF]

Roto-toms. They're tuned by rotating the head around. And they also have a bit of different tone as compared to conventional tom-toms. I believe Nick Mason used roto-toms on the Time intro. Terry Bozzio had a huge array of roto-toms in his UK era drumkit, or at least he does in the Nothing To Lose video. I think Bruford used them for awhile when he had that solo band with Holdsworth and Berlin.Oh. I thought that's what they were, but I wasn't sure(I see them in the credits of my CDs sometimes). Glad AVH stopped using those.

[iguana]

I actually loved VH III. I only got rid of it because the CD copy I was given didn't last very long. I should look on Amazon for a cheap copy. Btw, Gary looks the same in both vids.

it was a weird transitional period in the late 1990s, when classic bands started to get new lead singers and – after some years of grunge, techno, crossover and a general shake-up of what used to be rather firm pigeonholes – introduced modest rejunevation processes VH, JUDAS PRIEST, GENESIS ... we know where all this led. they were all caught in a mosh (ah, ANTHRAX were too) of an 80s corporate vision with 90s reality and their (largely) conservative fan strata. some of them should have had some more staying power – VH with cherone were bloody good and a real step forward.

[Scott Bails]

"Hip Today" - love the song, one of the best on that album.

Cherone in VH - I very, very much prefer him in Extreme. I just wish Extreme were a little more prolific.

[No Pride]

Btw, I don't think Mike has aged, and it's cool that he went from a band like Extreme to a band like Dream Theater.

... not to mention about a half decade of being Steve Vai's drummer in between.

[JIF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eeJID5QeLg
Stumbled upon this one. It's got a cool into. I first heard it on the Europe Super Hits collection.

[iguana]

Stumbled upon this one. It's got a cool into. I first heard it on the Europe Super Hits collection.


i actually saw EUROPE live when they toured this album. at that point in time (1992) one couldn't seriously stand up to the fact of going to a EUROPE-concert, with grunge and techno having rewritten the book practically overnight. but i was curious because – especially from the UK – their live reviews were always very good. that night they practically morphed into the greatest melodic rock band ever, often abandoning the keyboards altogether and going for a triple-guitar assault instead. great songs performed by a talented band, can't argue with that – in fact they were so good that hearing them round off with “the final countdown” almost seemed eerily out of place. the album “prisoners in paradise“ didn't do too well and interest waned, therefore they split soon afterwards. a minor giggle returned when “the final countdown” was reissued in 1999 and marketed as some sort of anthem for the new millenium... albeit with the first pressing printed without the first “o” in “c(o)untdown” which annoyed their label just a tiny bit...

EUROPE reformed in 2004 and have been productive with four albums and lots of touring since. while not on my listening agenda by a long stretch i respect them tremendously. this is my fave by them. love the tony kaye-like hammond stabs and the patented synth parps – and the guitar just soars. kitsch? yeah. so what.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmy3r_europe-superstitious_music?search_algo=2

you can't keep a good song down – not even at your local village fayre ;-)>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjeMDvCdrtc

[Gruno]

Anyone get into Motley Crue's 1994 s/t album? Their only album without Vince Neil on vocals. It is a kickass disc with some powerful music and definitely better vocals of John Corabi. I wish they would have been able to have kept going with this lineup.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07zUEREwk0Y


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK7u7w5zEU4

[JIF]

i actually saw EUROPE live when they toured this album. at that point in time (1992) one couldn't seriously stand up to the fact of going to a EUROPE-concert, with grunge and techno having rewritten the book practically overnight. but i was curious because – especially from the UK – their live reviews were always very good. that night they practically morphed into the greatest melodic rock band ever, often abandoning the keyboards altogether and going for a triple-guitar assault instead. great songs performed by a talented band, can't argue with that – in fact they were so good that hearing them round off with “the final countdown” almost seemed eerily out of place. the album “prisoners in paradise“ didn't do too well and interest waned, therefore they split soon afterwards. a minor giggle returned when “the final countdown” was reissued in 1999 and marketed as some sort of anthem for the new millenium... albeit with the first pressing printed without the first “o” in “c(o)untdown” which annoyed their label just a tiny bit...

EUROPE reformed in 2004 and have been productive with four albums and lots of touring since. while not on my listening agenda by a long stretch i respect them tremendously. this is my fave by them. love the tony kaye-like hammond stabs and the patented synth parps – and the guitar just soars. kitsch? yeah. so what.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmy3r_europe-superstitious_music?search_algo=2
What!? Europe without keyboards is like Yes without keyboards. Btw, I also posted the Superstition video. I also like the song for the stabs of organ? I wonder if it was a real one, or digital one.

[QUOTE=Gruno;145923]Anyone get into Motley Crue's 1994 s/t album? Their only album without Vince Neil on vocals. It is a kickass disc with some powerful music and definitely better vocals of John Corabi. I wish they would have been able to have kept going with this lineup.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07zUEREwk0Y


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK7u7w5zEU4I bought the remastered version of this many years ago at FYE. It was on sale, and I was curious to hear it. I, too, wish John would've stayed longer. The self-titled album is great. More aggressive and darker than what came before. Some people are too focused that the band kept the name, and also issued this as a self-titled release. I'm glad that they kept the name. Many bands change singers without changing the name. I am on the fence about it being a self-titled release. I guess the band saw this as a fresh start after Vince and the band parted ways. So, they wanted to release it as a self-titled release(which I guess was commercial suicide). I guess that the new sound and new singer was too much for fans.

[iguana]

What!? Europe without keyboards is like Yes without keyboards. Btw, I also posted the Superstition video. I also like the song for the stabs of organ? I wonder if it was a real one, or digital one.

it worked well as far as i recall, they only did it on occasional songs. there was a real hammond on stage, that's for sure. apologies for the double-post of the video!

[Rael]

As a fan of 'real' metal back then, I loathed hair metal. Hell, even the supposed 'real' metal of the 80s was mostly cheese but some of it survived the decade. I was into the likes of Slayer, Metallica, Mercyful Fate, Megadeth... and hated 'poser metal' as we called it. I wore denim, leather, and spikes not eye liner and spandex.

Who are you, Joey DeMaio? ;)

[GuitarGeek]

Who are you, Joey DeMaio? ;)

If he is, then can I humbly request that they play Jazz Odyssey next time Manowar plays Cleveland?

[JIF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOpyWTpGe7A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIMsAwJdkNQSince they have been mentioned a few times on this thread, I thought that I would share this. Hope you all enjoy this.

[JIF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moZR8t-HsdQ
For some reason, this song reminds me of My Melancholy Blues by Queen. Extreme did a similar thing as Queen regarding their album credits. For instance A Night At The Opera, A Day At The Races, and News Of The World by Queen contain credits below certain songs. For instance, on You're My Best Friend, below the lyrics it reads "Electric Piano-John Deacon". Likewise, below the lyrics When I First Kissed You by Extreme, it reads "8 Track Bedroom Lounge Lizards Piano and Orchestra Performed by Nuno". Btw, sorry for going off on a tangent.

[Gruno]

I rather fancied this tune today:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZyc0bnoZhs

[PeterG]

Lizzen up kidz-iez, for a while there -----a few yearz----- back in the mid-80z, I succumbed to the odd Bon Jovi, Europe, Def Leppard, Scorpions, Whitesnake 80s album as did many of uzz. NWOBHM of course and some early speed & thrash stuff & the German power metal bands were on the go but they couldn't get heard much on the variouzz typez of sound boxez, yez dig? But this poodley ztuff waz all over the air! The media didn't want to play proper metal.

[Bungalow Bill]

My favorite hair-metal band preceded the hair-metal era: Angel.

[the winter tree]

RATT!!!!

[ThomasKDye]

Of course it is Mike Mangini prior to his getting the Dream Theater gig.

Steve Sly

Heck, that's the only reason I knew who Mike Mangini was when DT were considering him. I bought "Waiting for the Punchline" but didn't like it all that much at the time.

[iguana]

I bought the remastered version of this many years ago at FYE. It was on sale, and I was curious to hear it. I, too, wish John would've stayed longer. The self-titled album is great. More aggressive and darker than what came before. Some people are too focused that the band kept the name, and also issued this as a self-titled release. I'm glad that they kept the name. Many bands change singers without changing the name. I am on the fence about it being a self-titled release. I guess the band saw this as a fresh start after Vince and the band parted ways. So, they wanted to release it as a self-titled release(which I guess was commercial suicide). I guess that the new sound and new singer was too much for fans.

more hindsight20/20-nostalgia: saw CRÜE in 1997 at roskilde festival, fronted by vince neil again. at this point in time brit pop ruled and nu metal was just starting out. people wouldn't pee on a band like MÖTLEY CRÜE if they were on fire; indeed, many regulars actually complained on them being booked onto the festival's line-up. what happened? all of the so-called trendy guitar bands of the year – and i went to see each and every one of them there – such as LiVE, RADiOHEAD, SMASHiNG PUMPKiNS, REEF etc. totally bombed and bored people senseless. MC had an hour or so in the afternoon, rolled up their sleeves, went on stage with a “lemme show you how it's done” smirk and then went on to kick large amounts of butt to very little fanfare. rock wasn't dead on this danish afternoon.

[JJ88]

Can't say I like much of this stuff. Some of it is now like a parallel universe where you can't quite believe this ever happened in the first place. I tried some years ago now, but it never really connected in Britain so you don't hear it much around here.

[TheLoony]

Scatterbrain, for the guys on page five, the first album was killer, Here Comes Trouble. The second, Scamboogery, is ok. I think there's a E.P. after that and a OOP live E.P. Cool band live. Check out Here Comes Trouble, Down With The Ship(Slight Return), Don't Call Me Dude, I'm With Stupid, Sonata #3 and Goodbye Freedom, Hell Mom. Hilarious at times yet they were able to write some rather serious lyrics.

No one has mentioned TNT. Much like Extreme IMO just not as good and not nearly as popular. Maybe throw in some White Lion comparisons. Anyway, Tony Harnell has a bit of a voice and Ronnie Le Tekro can shred a bit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVHm4XEJtXY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ird0pL7da-k


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yViimNxlcls

Listening to TNT reminds of that one hit wonder Steel Heart, and that ballady thing they did - Never Let You Go. Don't know what that band was like but I did like that tune.

[Ian1019]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-EA_trnpng
Does anyone mind if I put this here? This is from The Scorpions new MTV Unplugged CD/DVD package.

[Scott Bails]

One album I do surprisingly like is Winger's 'Pull'. I'm aware these guys have been lampooned over the years for, again, a bad image and earlier songs (though of the ones I've heard, I can say I like 'Miles Away' in an AOR anthem kind of way) but this album is something different, a more musically sophisticated hard rock sound. Only that 'gang vocal' thing really ties it to any kind of era IMHO.

I've heard a LOT of great things about this album, but have never checked it out. Might have to change that soon. Always liked Reb Beach as a guitarist, and Kip can sing.

[SteveSly]

Heck, that's the only reason I knew who Mike Mangini was when DT were considering him. I bought "Waiting for the Punchline" but didn't like it all that much at the time.

I did not like "Punchline" either, especially after the outstanding previous album "3 Sides To Every Story".

[JJ88]

It's interesting, there's a few songs from 'Punchline' on that Extreme best of I have and I thought they were quite good, with a rawer sound than the others. I did note the good drumming on them before knowing who it was.

The big hit they had here was 'More Than Words'. Mr. Big had 'To Be With You' around the same era.

[SteveSly]

It's interesting, there's a few songs from 'Punchline' on that Extreme best of I have and I thought they were quite good, with a rawer sound than the others. I did note the good drumming on them before knowing who it was.

!

“Punchline” was kind of their back to basics album. It was raw and straight forward, but coming after the outstanding “3 Sides T Every Story” album, it was a letdown for me. On “3 Sides” they really pushed themselves musically and is by far their best album in my opinion. I wanted them to continue in that direction. For me “Punchline” was a step backwards and just seemed rather pointless.

[Rufus]

“Punchline” was kind of their back to basics album. It was raw and straight forward, but coming after the outstanding “3 Sides T Every Story” album, it was a letdown for me. On “3 Sides” they really pushed themselves musically and is by far their best album in my opinion. I wanted them to continue in that direction. For me “Punchline” was a step backwards and just seemed rather pointless.

^This!

[klothos]

“Punchline” was kind of their back to basics album. It was raw and straight forward, but coming after the outstanding “3 Sides T Every Story” album, it was a letdown for me. On “3 Sides” they really pushed themselves musically and is by far their best album in my opinion. I wanted them to continue in that direction. For me “Punchline” was a step backwards and just seemed rather pointless.

It was 1995, a period in time that had rock going raw and going back to the basics in both production and performance anyway. It was Extreme's attempt at trying to stay viable with the mainstream drivel rock of the 90s (yes, Im one of those people that thought 90s Rock was predominately one angry/moody suck-fest), even if survival meant lowering their personal standards......."Punchline" was at least an attempt at survival: another "III Sides" would have been moot for the flavors of the mid-90s - label/management probably wouldn't have released it anyway

that was the point

[SteveSly]

It was 1995, a period in time that had rock going raw and going back to the basics in both production and performance anyway. It was Extreme's attempt at trying to stay viable with the mainstream drivel rock of the 90s (yes, Im one of those people that thought 90s Rock was predominately one angry/moody suck-fest), even if survival meant lowering their personal standards......."Punchline" was at least an attempt at survival: another "III Sides" would have been moot for the flavors of the mid-90s - label/management probably wouldn't have released it anyway

that was the point

True, "3 Sides" had sold a lot less than the previous album, so they were already in a slide. I understand from a commercial standpoint why they did it, but as a fan I was disapointed in the direction they went.

[2ndsout]

I was big (a bit) into some of these bands. Wait was a good tune from White Lion. I was more partial though to Winger; who did a few great albums. I really enjoyed 17, Headed for a Heartbreak, Miles Away and Easy Come/Easy Go. If we are talking Glam Metal/Hair bands- I think that Warrant and Firehouse also fit the bill quite nicely and even both of them had some great tracks. Firehouse's first album that included Don't Treat Me Bad has some killer rock tracks on it, but they went softer later in their career, in my opinion. Even though Bad English was from Neil Schon and Jonathan Cain (Journey) along with Jonathan Waite (The Babies)... their first album had glam/hair metal written all over it....

Warrant's Cherry Pie still holds the best in double meaning in a video ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjyZKfdwlng


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1JXrxCKQVs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlN3oEjMpUQ

[2ndsout]

And here are a few more...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3KE2RheMII


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qol7z-ku8A

[Ian1019]

Regarding the Bad English vid that you posted, I have always wondered if that was John Waite's real hair.

[TheLoony]

Speaking of Bad English, am I the only one hereabouts that can't stand John Waite? I always thought his voice was wimpy and that he wrote lousy hooks. Never liked him solo, BE or The Babys. Oh well, can't please everyone.

[JJ88]

^I've never had any albums by any of those but I like singles by all of them ('Isn't It Time', 'Missing You' etc.). I dunno, I always considered- based on these singles- Bad English and indeed Waite solo to just be AOR.

'Hair metal' in the now-accepted sense, certainly by the time you got to groups like Poison and Warrant, was kind of reminiscent of lightweight glam-pop with flashy 'metal' guitar solos.

[Scott Bails]

As a huge fan of Journey at the time, I was pretty stoked when Bad English hit the scene. I bought the album with high expectations, but wound up selling it later. I love "Forget Me Not," (specifically that muted guitar riff) but that was about the only track that I really liked. :meh

[SteveSly]

As a huge fan of Journey at the time, I was pretty stoked when Bad English hit the scene. I bought the album with high expectations, but wound up selling it later. I love "Forget Me Not," (specifically that muted guitar riff) but that was about the only track that I really liked. :meh

I felt the same way. It was in many ways another all-star project that did not meet it's expectations to my ears.

[2ndsout]

Speaking of Bad English, am I the only one hereabouts that can't stand John Waite? I always thought his voice was wimpy and that he wrote lousy hooks. Never liked him solo, BE or The Babys. Oh well, can't please everyone.

I can say that a good portion of music that Bad English performed was written by the well known songwriter Diane Warren- who has written music for just about EVERYONE in the music world including: Mariah Carey, Aerosmith, Bad English (When I see you Smile), and host of others...

[2ndsout]

As a huge fan of Journey at the time, I was pretty stoked when Bad English hit the scene. I bought the album with high expectations, but wound up selling it later. I love "Forget Me Not," (specifically that muted guitar riff) but that was about the only track that I really liked. :meh

They had a second album in 1991 titled "Backlash" but it really went nowhere- and from I read at the time there was some bad blood or disagreements within the band and everyone went to do other projects.

[JJ88]

I was reading recently about what John Waite had to say about Journey in some interview a few years back...not pretty!

I also played 'Raised On Radio' recently, and neither was that. Listening to that it's hard to believe Journey used to be a rock band! Looking at the personnel list on the album, it's easy to see why that one went awry- a case of 'too many cooks spoil the broth' IMHO.

[2ndsout]

I felt the same way. It was in many ways another all-star project that did not meet it's expectations to my ears.

That's kind of how I felt with supergroups like The Storm, AudioSlave and Return to Zero... big names on the outside- but craptastic music on the inside.

[Scott Bails]

I also played 'Raised On Radio' recently, and neither was that. Listening to that it's hard to believe Journey used to be a rock band! Looking at the personnel list on the album, it's easy to see why that one went awry- a case of 'too many cooks spoil the broth' IMHO.

That album is just awful, IMO. And it has nothing to do with "too many cooks." There's just too much sap, too much adult contemporary, "Oh Sherrie" type of stuff.

[luvyesmusic]

I enjoyed many of these bands during this time as I went to a lot of shows but some like Poison and Winger, there's no way you would find me there. Huge Micheal Schenker fan and I did enjoy the project with Robin McAuley-great vocalist- that lasted a few years called the McAuley Schenker Group.

[Ian1019]

I can say that a good portion of music that Bad English performed was written by the well known songwriter Diane Warren- who has written music for just about EVERYONE in the music world including: Mariah Carey, Aerosmith, Bad English (When I see you Smile), and host of others...Diane Warren only wrote one Bad English song. Hint:it was their biggest hit. They also worked with songwriters like Martin Page, and Peter Sinfield. Wasn't he a songwriter for some big prog band? ;)


I was reading recently about what John Waite had to say about Journey in some interview a few years back...not pretty!Didn't he basically say that they suck? Isn't there a saying that people that live in glass houses should throw stones? I do love Missing You, but it does sound like a Journey ballad. I do love Change. Interesting fact:Waite's solo debut, Ignition, was produced by Neil Giraldo(Pat Benatar's guitarist/husband).


That album is just awful, IMO. And it has nothing to do with "too many cooks." There's just too much sap, too much adult contemporary, "Oh Sherrie" type of stuff.I remember someone commenting to me once that they couldn't tell the difference between Oh Sherrie and Raised On Radio.

[2ndsout]

Diane Warren only wrote one Bad English song. Hint:it was their biggest hit. They also worked with songwriters like Martin Page, and Peter Sinfield. Wasn't he a songwriter for some big prog band? ;)

Didn't he basically say that they suck? Isn't there a saying that people that live in glass houses should throw stones? I do love Missing You, but it does sound like a Journey ballad. I do love Change. Interesting fact:Waite's solo debut, Ignition, was produced by Neil Giraldo(Pat Benatar's guitarist/husband).

I remember someone commenting to me once that they couldn't tell the difference between Oh Sherrie and Raised On Radio.

Okay, I stand corrected- TWO songs done by Bad English were written by Diane Warren (she had the other tune on their second album)...some of their music was sappy enough though to sound like it was written by Diane Warren. Just saying. ;)