Classical music

[progmatist]

One of these days I was writing someone I listen half classical, half "progressive" and half for the rest.
So, I should read this, if not write a post or two. Just in the two first pages there is a lot I never heard of. Imagine in the whole 65.

About the designation, yes, sometimes it may get messy to have two uses of "classical".
In my corner of Europe some of us use "Música erudita" (erudite music) instead of "classical in the broader sense. Leaving "classical" for the period.
Anyway, human classification systems are arbitrary by nature and designations too.
Of musical periods there are as many systems as people who thought about the subject (hyperbole).
Oh! And THIS classical music we are talking about is very likely the "western" classical music.
In places such as India, Japan, China, there may be other classical musics.

I'm actually building a sort of musical repository which includes, of course, a classical board. On a forum.
The thing is still in a very early phase and probably will always be so.
Nevertheless I managed to nearly complete a few of the usual classical "heavy weights".
Forum is actually about a strategy game but the game programmer likes some of "my" music so, no collisions.
Can be seen here:
(scroll down until "Concert Hall" shows up, click it and then The T. B. Experience) https://panzergeneralx.proboards.com/
Visitors can view without registering.
Most of it are the most famous "heavy weights". Has some "experimental" ancient Greek and Roman.
Plus a baroque fellow I specially fancy goes by the name Biber (not affiliated with Bieber). And Corelli, perhaps a bit less famous than Vivaldi.
There's a Pt composer on the late romantic division: Vianna da Motta.
And three Pt composers on the modern board; last name there is Silvestrov from Ukraine. Usually quiet music.
A curiosity in this last board is Joly Braga Santos's 4th Symphony with its choral 4th movement like in Beethoven's 9th...

PS: just remembered the World (music) board contains some music that may be considered "classical".
Cases of "Movimento Armorial" in Brasil board. And "Krless"'s medieval songs in Czechia board. Or Piazzola in Argentina board.
Some cases in the Soundtracks board also may qualify as classical.
Gottfried Huppertz (Metropolis; the original 20's movie score)
Howard Shore (LOTR)
Michael Nyman (The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover)

As I posted many pages back in this thread, Esa-Pekka Salonen said in an interview we need a new term for classical the genre. To avoid that confusion with classical the stylistic era.

[Rarebird]

As I posted many pages back in this thread, Esa-Pekka Salonen said in an interview we need a new term for classical the genre. To avoid that confusion with classical the stylistic era.

I think in Germany they use translated serious music.

And wether or not soundtracks are classical is probably open for discussion. I remember a classical reviewer complaining about to much soundtracks in a classical chart. (A top 500 of classical music, selected by listeners.)

[Teophrastus Bombastus]

I think in Germany they use translated serious music.

And wether or not soundtracks are classical is probably open for discussion. I remember a classical reviewer complaining about to much soundtracks in a classical chart. (A top 500 of classical music, selected by listeners.)

Prompted by the recent thread on why people produce remixes without vocals I ended up stumbling on a Steven Wilson interview.
Contains no answer to that question but there are interesting things there, among them the fellow stating he doesn't care for "genres" anymore.
Of course, people managing charts still have to use "labels".

The specific question of where "classy" soundtracks may stand may have to do with the long standing debate on what we call here "música programática" (programmatic music; here we may create another nomenclature problem by calling it "prog" for short).
Some people just do not accept anything that may smell "programmatic" as real / serious music which has to be totally abstract (for that current).
Fellow in our public "classical" radio station dedicated a few episodes of his program to the subject.
The term comes from a time when some composers adopted the practice of issuing written programs to concert audiences in order to explain what the music was about.
In reality, very little of it, if any, is completely detached from the current affairs of the physical world.

You go for the most ancestral possible, like say the Baka Pygmi records by UNESCO and you have songs related with daily activities.

You go for opera and it may still be about daily activities.


None of this tells the experts what to decide on (original) soundtracks being "classical" or not.
But the (more) general public, listeners, seem to have chosen.
Things change in time... opera was once pretty much entertainment for the masses, far from the elitist flavour it currently carries (I'm sure in some places more than others).
The statute of "classy" soundtracks may well change too.

[Rarebird]

Prompted by the recent thread on why people produce remixes without vocals I ended up stumbling on a Steven Wilson interview.
Contains no answer to that question but there are interesting things there, among them the fellow stating he doesn't care for "genres" anymore.
Of course, people managing charts still have to use "labels".

The specific question of where "classy" soundtracks may stand may have to do with the long standing debate on what we call here "música programática" (programmatic music; here we may create another nomenclature problem by calling it "prog" for short).
Some people just do not accept anything that may smell "programmatic" as real / serious music which has to be totally abstract (for that current).
Fellow in our public "classical" radio station dedicated a few episodes of his program to the subject.
The term comes from a time when some composers adopted the practice of issuing written programs to concert audiences in order to explain what the music was about.
In reality, very little of it, if any, is completely detached from the current affairs of the physical world.

None of this tells the experts what to decide on (original) soundtracks being "classical" or not.
But the (more) general public, listeners, seem to have chosen.
Things change in time... opera was once pretty much entertainment for the masses, far from the elitist flavour it currently carries (I'm sure in some places more than others).
The statute of "classy" soundtracks may well change too.

Some composer stated: "Music is not able to express anything, but itself" I think.

Yes opera was entertainment for the masses (though those masses were not the same as the current masses), I mean most people didn't have the money to go to an opera. But often pieces of other operas was incorporated, to show the abilities of the singers and the audience might be chatting and eating, during the performance.

Currently reading a book with articles on classical music, mostly modern and the author seems to want to have little to do with the more popular modern classical music, like minimal, neo-classical, or other more tonal music.

[Teophrastus Bombastus]

Right, the rift seems to be very much related with the tonality issue.

But I'd say, bearing in mind the history of music and the well and long established fact that sound does affect biological entities - given sounds usually affect living beings in particular manners, specially humans - that more abstract / purely mathematical approaches to the musical subject will end up being historical curiosities in the long run.
The bulk of humanity will remain much more interested in "emotionally moving" music than "mathematical models" music.
The inner human brain workings lean much more on the emotional than many may want to believe in a era of purported "rationalism".
Not saying those experiments are garbage or shouldn't be done - I'm saying I believe they will remain (very) minoritary because they do not seem to bear biology in mind, the physiology of the listener, or simplifying, the listener.

Like my mother shouts: "Turn off that furniture dragging music! Right now!"
Obviously, the emotional connection with the music failed big time here. Even on a more basic level, physiology immediately disconnected the listener...

[Rarebird]

Right, the rift seems to be very much related with the tonality issue.

But I'd say, bearing in mind the history of music and the well and long established fact that sound does affect biological entities - given sounds usually affect living beings in particular manners, specially humans - that more abstract / purely mathematical approaches to the musical subject will end up being historical curiosities in the long run.
The bulk of humanity will remain much more interested in "emotionally moving" music than "mathematical models" music.
The inner human brain workings lean much more on the emotional than many may want to believe in a era of purported "rationalism".
Not saying those experiments are garbage or shouldn't be done - I'm saying I believe they will remain (very) minoritary because they do not seem to bear biology in mind, the physiology of the listener, or simplifying, the listener.

Like my mother shouts: "Turn off that furniture dragging music! Right now!"
Obviously, the emotional connection with the music failed big time here. Even on a more basic level, physiology immediately disconnected the listener...

Well according to the author I'm reading, it's more a question of bringing it to a young audience, that isn't 'spoiled' by preconsived ideas about what music should sound like. He might have point there, if we look for instance at other cultures, which have other musical concepts, for instance rhythmically, or tonally. Like for instance uneven complex rhythms in countries in Eastern Europe, or Arab, or Indian scales. Which is also noticed by others.

[progmatist]

^^ There's also an issue with music requiring undivided attention. Young people who think they're master multi-taskers, which no human really is will never get anything out of complex music.

[Teophrastus Bombastus]

Well according to the author I'm reading, it's more a question of bringing it to a young audience, that isn't 'spoiled' by preconsived ideas about what music should sound like. He might have point there, if we look for instance at other cultures, which have other musical concepts, for instance rhythmically, or tonally. Like for instance uneven complex rhythms in countries in Eastern Europe, or Arab, or Indian scales. Which is also noticed by others.

Get them while they're young!
That's a good tactic!
Still, as people are born with an emotional side and generally speaking that's the one that's primarily in charge, the musical production that does not count with that factor will not pass but for those who are able and willing to "intellectualize" the listening process. Although I suppose not all "contemporary" is emotionally dry. In some cases it may just be a question of the listener not understanding the new "vocabulary". As often happens while people are listening to music from other traditions / geographies.

Well, really, come to think about, the most interesting part of that argument - get them while they are not preconceived - is that the thing is oriented in order to facilitate feeding the public with their own preconceived ideas of what music should be. Ultimately, listeners will always choose, according to many factors, of varied sorts.

In very general terms, my personal preference goes for music where I may find balance between emotion and intelligence.
Others may see it in other ways and that is variety, which is generally a good thing to have...

[Rarebird]

Get them while they're young!
That's a good tactic!
Still, as people are born with an emotional side and generally speaking that's the one that's primarily in charge, the musical production that does not count with that factor will not pass but for those who are able and willing to "intellectualize" the listening process. Although I suppose not all "contemporary" is emotionally dry. In some cases it may just be a question of the listener not understanding the new "vocabulary". As often happens while people are listening to music from other traditions / geographies.

Well, really, come to think about, the most interesting part of that argument - get them while they are not preconceived - is that the thing is oriented in order to facilitate feeding the public with their own preconceived ideas of what music should be. Ultimately, listeners will always choose, according to many factors, of varied sorts.

In very general terms, my personal preference goes for music where I may find balance between emotion and intelligence.
Others may see it in other ways and that is variety, which is generally a good thing to have...

The author I'm reading, also suggests that the music of Varese and Stockhausen could be appreciated by people who love hardcore popmusic (whatever that may be) and heavy metal.

[Teophrastus Bombastus]

^^ There's also an issue with music requiring undivided attention. Young people who think they're master multi-taskers, which no human really is will never get anything out of complex music.

Not exactly "classical" but somewhat about "complex":
Why Today's Music Is So Boring - The Regression of Musical Innovation.
https://panzergeneralx.proboards.com...s-music-boring

Posting it thinking of the general public context facing the "complex" issue.
Does it have anything to do with the Stockhausens and the Vareses? Versus the "old classical"?
Not at all in my array of knowledge.
How really innovative / complex are they?
Can it even be ascertained?
Or have they gone into a path that is so different we cannot use the "old ruler" to measure them anymore?
Do those concepts - innovation / complex - still make sense in the context of what those people are composing?

[Brad 2 the Bone]

Just in time for the holiday season:

legostock.jpg

[Rarebird]

Just in time for the holiday season:

legostock.jpg

LOL

[Zeuhlmate]

[chalkpie]

^ Looks nice, will spin.

Anybody see Maestro yet? We had mixed feelings, mainly the propensity to change scenes frequently almost with complete disregard. It's definitely worth seeing though. The M2 scene is killer, and both Bradley Cooper and Carey Mulligan are phenomenal. Get your ashtray ready.....

[StarThrower]

^ Looks nice, will spin.

Anybody see Maestro yet? We had mixed feelings, mainly the propensity to change scenes frequently almost with complete disregard. It's definitely worth seeing though. The M2 scene is killer, and both Bradley Cooper and Carey Mulligan are phenomenal. Get your ashtray ready.....

I'd like to see this on the big screen but no local theaters are carrying it. Just got my Oliver Latry Complete DG Recordings so I'm gonna crank some of this stuff.

[StarThrower]

I watched this last night. I think it's a great performance!

[walt]

Pamela Harrison (1915-1990) English composer.

[Zeuhlmate]

Pamela Harrison (1915-1990) English composer.

I liked that!

[chalkpie]

Ravel is life. I don't know how to say that in French or Kobaian.

[StarThrower]

Ravel is life. I don't know how to say that in French or Kobaian.

Ravel, c’est la vie

[chalkpie]

Ravel, c’est la vie

oui!

[chalkpie]

I've been hitting Ravel's mini opera L'enfant et les sortilèges. I'm starting to dig it more and more. Sounds crazy but parts of the dialogue reminds me of a French version of 200 Motels. It's difficult to explain why but the vibe and style seems similar. There a ton of cool sections, especially with the choral parts. The final mvt is pretty special. (Rattle/CBSO)

Also, Angela Hewitt's AMAZING Ravel set. She is an absolute Goddess in this music...so masterful and musical. Her technical ability is nuts (she is a Bach expert, so there's that) but she plays this stuff the way I think Ravel would have really loved. BTW, the Hyperion label is now on streaming,

[StarThrower]

I've been hitting Ravel's mini opera L'enfant et les sortilèges. I'm starting to dig it more and more.

I have a recording in the Ravel Edition. I have the box sitting next to me so I need to start going through it again. I listened to my Martinon set last week.

NP:

My05NDg2LmpwZWc.jpg

[progmatist]

Ravel, c’est la vie

Not to be confused with Greg Lake's c'est la vie.

[StarThrower]

Not to be confused with Greg Lake's c'est la vie.

It's not a piece of music by Ravel. It's simply French for Ravel, that's life. See Chalkpie's post above.