PIL

[davis]

This is an offshoot of the Johnny Rotten thread. Any PIL fans here? to me a lot of their music sounds like dance music, but I admit I haven't read any of Lydon's lyrics. are their studio releases good? I tend to like watching them performing on YT.

[trurl]

I never dived into it. Anything Bill Laswell is associated with is usually at least worth checking out but the only song I know is Rise and it didn't do much for me at the time. If people have recommendations I'd be into perusing further...

[polmico]

Metal Box is supposed to be the one to get, right?

A band that has been on my radar for a few years (when I discovered Wire, Gang of Four, Stranglers) but just haven't dived into yet. One of these years . . .

[Steve F.]

Metal Box (originally Second Edition in the USA) is indeed the one to get. A little bit dated, but still very, very good.

[Geoff O'Donoghue]

PiL is a band that has had a number of different incarnations with the only constant being John Lydon. They started as an experimental band and were described by the NME as "arguably the first post-rock group". I would say that their first three releases - Public Image: First Issue, Metal Box, The Flowers of Romance - fit that description. I quite enjoy the first album but find the next two to be a bit hard going and best listened to in small doses. But that's just me - others consider Metal Box to be a classic and, for example, that album has appeared on Steven Wilson's playlist in the past.
The earlier incarnations of PiL have some distant connections with prog. Founder and bass player on the first two albums, Jah Wobble, later collaborated with Can's Holger Czukay in the early 1980s. Founder and guitarist on the first three albums, Keith Levene, is a massive fan of Steve Howe - see http://www.furious.com/perfect/keithlevene.html
During the recording of their fourth album - This Is What You Want... This Is What You Get - Levene had serious disagreements with Lydon and drummer Martin Atkins (later of Killing Joke and Ministry [with King Crimson's Bill Rieflin]) and from that point on PiL was pretty much under Lydon's control. There is actually another version of This Is What You Want... This Is What You Get called Commercial Zone which was released (sort of illegally as a PiL album) by Levene.
The next release - Album - featured session players (including Ginger Baker, Tony Williams and Steve Vai) and completed a move towards more conventional song structures and writing that had begun with the previous release.
For the next three releases - Happy?, 9, That What Is Not - PiL was more of a band affair where the line-up was generally more consistent. I believe the songwriting was a group effort during this period. The results are definitely in the radio-friendly, accessible, pop/rock realm but I think they still have a certain something that sets them apart. Maybe it's just Lydon's unusual singing style . For this period the band included guitarist John McGeoch (formerly of Magazine, Visage and Siouxsie and The Banshees).
PiL was on hiatus from 1993 and reformed to tour in 2009 with a new album - This is PiL - released in 2012.
If you want a quick idea of just how diverse the PiL output is then check out The Greatest Hits, So Far on youtube -
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...1fjwDoBhnpN4Mq

[trurl]

So Album isn't really the starting place, eh... I'l take a listen to Metal Box and see how it is.

[mozo-pg]

Rise an excellent song. If you don't like this song, it's doubtful you'll enjoy much else. I own their 2012 release, this is pil, and it's excellent. I also own Happy, which I like. I just purchased 1st and 2nd editions. This is not punk rock but post-punk.

[davis]

Thanks for the information and the link to the greatest hits on YT. At the moment I can say I love 'Death Disco.' Until now, the only PIL song I'd heard that really grabbed me was 'Albatross.'

[Digital_Man]

Yeah they are cool. I'm not overly familiar but I have heard some stuff. Definitely better than the Sex Pistols. I agree that "rise" is a great song and it's probably the one I'm most familiar with.

[Progbear]

Metal Box/Second Edition and The Flowers of Romance are both first-rate post-punk albums. There’s moments on the others but I never really got into them like those two.

[strawberrybrick]

First three are classics, though the first was kinda short. Metal Box has that "krautrock" influence, Flowers is plain wierd. The rest? Good songs, great guitarists, and Johnny Lydon. What more could you want? These were good years for those that looked beyond the prog.

[trurl]

Rise an excellent song. If you don't like this song, it's doubtful you'll enjoy much else. I own their 2012 release, this is pil, and it's excellent. I also own Happy, which I like. I just purchased 1st and 2nd editions. This is not punk rock but post-punk.

Well, I hadn't heard it in forever. On hearing it now from a musical standpoint I'm into it but Lydon himself seems a bad fit. I'm listening to songs from the debut album and liking it a lot more at the moment...

[davis]

I had listened to First Edition several years ago and was really turned off by the Religion pieces but now they don't bother me. I take Lydon with a grain or 3 of salt. I love 'Theme'. will report on the rest after I hear it.

[spacefreak]

They had an amazing run of first three studio albums. First Issue, Metal Box and The Flowers Of Romance are indispensable if you are interested in the post punk/avant wave stuff.

[davis]

I've seen some performance photos and video. what's the purpose of that stand in front of the stage? does John keep lyrics on a laptop or something?

[Guitarplyrjvb]

I have the album with Vai on it. I'll have to revisit it. I remember it being one chaotic listen!

[Blah_Blah_Woof_Woof]

I'd love to add the original 'Metal Box' to my record collection.

[miamiscot]

First three are classics, though the first was kinda short. Metal Box has that "krautrock" influence, Flowers is plain wierd. The rest? Good songs, great guitarists, and Johnny Lydon. What more could you want? These were good years for those that looked beyond the prog.

My feelings exactly!!!

[Orcopian]

I would say that metal box was the album that indirectly got me into prog. When I first got into music in 1979 it was the sex pistols, stiff little fingers and the jam I was listening to, but the cool kids in the next year in school were wearing PIL badges and I dipped my toe into the water buying the death disco single, I liked what I heard so bought second edition, which was the double vinyl version, the 3 12" singles in a metal box was a real rarity back then. I was totally blown away by the longer tracks like albatross which made me realise there was more to music than 3 minute songs. What I know now is that metal box was very influenced by Can, but at the time I would say it was a real game changer for me. Keith Levene the guitarist is a real case of missing in action, it wasn't just his guitar playing I remeber seeing a photo in the NME of his modular synth, at the age of 12 I didn't really know what a modular synth was but I was pretty impressed and intrigued by the noises on the album. It really opened my mind up to more experimental and longer songs.

[Nijinsky Hind]

[Finch Platte]

I've seen some performance photos and video. what's the purpose of that stand in front of the stage? does John keep lyrics on a laptop or something?

I saw them a few nights ago, and Lydon does read the words off a music stand. I was wtf, but it doesn't seem to bother a lot of people. http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thread...-words.482434/

[PeterG]

Paris au Printemps is also very good.

[GuitarGeek]

So Album isn't really the starting place, eh... I'l take a listen to Metal Box and see how it is.

Well, if you like Bill Laswell and Steve Vai, I imagine it is.

I remember an interview with Keith Levene where he talked about how he listened to Metal Box for the first times in ages, and realized that on one of the songs (I forget which one) he kinda "ripped off" one of Steve Howe's guitar solos. According to him, there were a lot of prog fans in the UK who "dumbed themselves down" to fit in with punk.

Another reason I always admired Tom Snyder is he was just about the only journalist who had the mivonks to tell Rotten to frell off. He and Keith Levene (with Levene looking completely blasted) appeared on the Tomorrow Show sometime in the early 80's, and Rotten went into his "I'm smarter than the rest of you" trip, and Snyder got real sarcastic, really fast, basically calling him on his dren. I think his words were "It's such a shame you're the only one who knows the real score, and it's everyone else in the world who's out of step". Finally, at the end of the segment, Tom turns the camera and says "We'll be back in a minute, but these gentlemen will not".

[Finch Platte]

Well, if you like Bill Laswell and Steve Vai, I imagine it is.

I remember an interview with Keith Levene where he talked about how he listened to Metal Box for the first times in ages, and realized that on one of the songs (I forget which one) he kinda "ripped off" one of Steve Howe's guitar solos. According to him, there were a lot of prog fans in the UK who "dumbed themselves down" to fit in with punk.

Another reason I always admired Tom Snyder is he was just about the only journalist who had the mivonks to tell Rotten to frell off. He and Keith Levene (with Levene looking completely blasted) appeared on the Tomorrow Show sometime in the early 80's, and Rotten went into his "I'm smarter than the rest of you" trip, and Snyder got real sarcastic, really fast, basically calling him on his dren. I think his words were "It's such a shame you're the only one who knows the real score, and it's everyone else in the world who's out of step". Finally, at the end of the segment, Tom turns the camera and says "We'll be back in a minute, but these gentlemen will not".

At least he called them gentlemen!

[arturs]

I remember an interview with Keith Levene where he talked about how he listened to Metal Box for the first times in ages, and realized that on one of the songs (I forget which one) he kinda "ripped off" one of Steve Howe's guitar solos. According to him, there were a lot of prog fans in the UK who "dumbed themselves down" to fit in with punk.

Dunno if this is the one he was thinking of, but the Poptones guitar part reminds me of Starship Trooper.

Anyway, good album!