You may be right, but it's even more shocking to me that there are people who dislike Gabriel's voice. I've only learned that recently. His voice always seemed to me like it must be liked by everyone. While I can understand some not liking Jon Anderson's voice.Originally Posted by Digital_Man
I have to say, Abacab and Genesis have held up much better than I had remember. Some of the pop stuff is quite decent, and there’s some interesting, more explorative stuff there. That said, I really can’t muster any love for Invisible Touch. It’s obvious that Atlantic had visions of dollar signs dancing in their heads in the wake of Thriller and Born in the U.S.A. (to say nothing of Hello, I Must Be Going), and thus pressured them to write an album where pretty much anything could be mined for potential single releases. That, and the production just utterly sucks on this album. I was recently listening to TTT, which I was always convinced sounded like the dance remix of itself, and was struck that all those awful late 80s synths made everything sound like a tool chest being shoved down a flight of stairs. That and “Domino” and “The Brazilian” were just too mediocre/half-assed to count as saving graces. Sorry, guys, I really tried.
We Can’t Dance at least had “Dreaming While You Sleep” and “Fading Lights.” The latter is one of my favorite tunes by the trio edition of the band. Unfortunately, like a lot of albums from the early CD era, it’s an endurance test. It’s just needlessly long and bogged down with filler. I agree that “Driving the Last Spike” is boring and overlong/protracted.
Never bothered with Calling All Stations. Heard the lead-off single, “Congo” and...I think I’ve suffered enough, thank you.
Confirmed Bachelors: the dramedy hit of 1883...
One thing that helps, I guess, is if you were a CHILD of the eighties and got into it before people told you it all had to be Hammond B3s and mellotrons or you weren't hip.
"Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)
I have a good friend who really loved "Never a Time," so I give that one a pass now. But yeah, "Tell Me Why" and "Way of the World" are barely songs at all (and it doesn't help that their "social commentary" is watered down to the point of nonexistent). "Since I Lost You" is about Eric Clapton's kid, so... fine. Not one I'd seek out, though. I just also think "No Son of Mine" is meh, too. I know some people think it's deep and intense, but I just find it plodding, despite the feverish climax.
"Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)
"Tell Me Why" just came across as something that had been done already. And as I've mentioned in probably every thread that discusses this album (), I'm forever bitter about the hype that was building when the rumours were swirling about Rutherford busting out the old Rickenbacker 12-string again... and then it turned out to be for this. Ugh. "Way Of The World", yeah, pretty lame. I don't hate it but I have no desire to listen to it. The weird thing about "Never A Time" is that the in-the-studio footage of the band recording the WCD album showed Phil really struggling to get the vocal right. Seems strange to me, as it's such a simple melody throughout. Or at least, for a pro like him it is... "Since I Lost You" I place in the bottom three tracks of their entire catalogue, with "Illegal Alien" and "Me And Virgil".
As for "No Son Of Mine", I wouldn't call it deep and intense, but I do think it has a nice atmosphere and a strong performance from Phil. Once again, I don't think it should have been the leadoff track. "On The Shoreline" just screams 'album opener' to me.
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
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I don't mind the good 80's Genesis stuff, eg Abacab, Keep It Dark, Home By The Sea, Mama, Duke's Travels/Duke's End, Domino, etc.
What I mean was that they included stuff on some of those records that wasn't too good, eg Misunderstanding, Another Record, Illegal Alien, In Too Deep.
I recall reading that at least with Abacab, they went into the album with the idea of rejecting anything that sounded like something they had done before. That's why Submarine and Naminanu got relegated to B-side status. OK, fine, I can see the logic there, but then you instead include dren like Like It Or Not and Another Record on the album?! That doesn't make any sense to me. Why would you save the good stuff for the B-sides, and instead substitute inferior pop songs on the actual album?! That doesn't make any sense to me. And I fail to see how they could listen to a throwaway like Another Record and say "Oh, yeah, that's in the same league as the side A material". It's almost like they knew almost nobody listens to the entire album, so they could skate by with filler, on the basis that "We wanted to do something different".
Likewise, I dont' mind ballads, but not when they sound like they were tailored made for "not too hard, not too soft" (yeah right) radio airplay. Save it for your solo albums, gentlemen!
I wouldnt mind "Misunderstanding" so much if it didnt sound exactly like the middle of "Hot Fun In The Summertime" by Sly and The Family Stone
Cannot un-hear now. Thanks!
I'm gonna have to listen to that Sly Stone song, because I dont' remember hearing that one. To me it feels more like Barry Manilow (particularly that intro) than Sly Stone, though.
fast forward to 0:54
I think it's time to change the title of the thread to "Boy howdy, I'm sure glad there are a lot of people that enjoy 80s Genesis except for Trane who didn't read a single post before mocking me".
Sort of. I had a couple of singles from Abacab when I still into pop and collecting top forty singles. I also remember somebody getting me shapes on cassette and I also heard "paperlate" and all the other hits at the time. I think I also heard Three sides live at some point but didn't pay too much attention to it and didn't understand what prog was. It was somewhere before the release of Invisible Touch when I got heavily into Yes and started to discover prog was when I put the pieces together and figured out that Genesis fell into that category too but it was a gradual thing. I think by early 86 I had heard most Yes and KC but only had a few older Genesis at that point(the first one which sort of threw me for a loop and Foxtrot and maybe one or two others). So being that I was so used to hearing them on the radio and didn't associate them with prog right away(or didn't hear their prog stuff right away)I was ok with their contemporary stuff(which still incorporated prog sometimes anyway). I didn't view their eighties stuff as pop crap(not that I do now but I know many long time fans do).
They had high hopes that 'Never A Time' would be a hit but to me it's non-descript, could-be-anyone Adult Contemporary. 'Throwing It All Away' mark 2, and that was a far better song.
There's a real mismatch between the lyrics of 'Tell Me Why' and 'Way Of The World'. The one rails against injustice, the other says, tough shit- on the same album! And again, that bland Adult Contemporary sound is all over them.
'Misunderstanding' is not one of my favourites, but it's OK. Phil also mentioned 'Sail On Sailor' as being an influence on it.
Terrible 80's band! Did Phil Collins forget how to play drums in the 80's?
I don't think it's so shocking, actually. For a short while I could include myself among them.
I started listening to Genesis in earnest in 1979. I'd heard & liked quite a lot of their music on the radio prior to that, but in my younger years I was more into immediate, straight-ahead hard rock. Once my interest had been piqued and I decided to get into them, I asked a musically-knowledgeable co-worker about which Genesis albums I should get. Straight away he said, "A Trick of the Tail, Wind & Wuthering, And Then There Were Three." I went right out and got them, recorded them all onto a single 120-minute cassette, and spent evenings just driving around and listening to those three. I think this was in September or October, so it was the perfect season to be really experiencing those records for the first time. It was instant love! Once I got to know those three, I started working my way back through their catalogue. I think the first of those was Seconds Out, and that one hit me really hard, too. The older tracks that Phil was singing on that sounded intriguing, so I kept visiting the Kent Community Store in Kent, Ohio and picking up the older stuff whenever I could. The Gabriel material definitely slowed me down a bit. (The Lamb in particular really left me scratching my head!) At first, PG-fronted Genesis came across as somewhat quirky, and I didn't really warm to his raspy voice right away having heard Phil's much smoother singing first. Still, being a budding musician I recognized that these albums were fairly stuffed to the gills with great music that would sooner or later pull me in, and once I allowed that to happen, I got over my slight aversion to PG's voice. I think the first one I really came to love was Trespass; I loved the fragility of Stagnation and the feeling of innocence embodied in many of the other tracks. After that, it was more or less smooth sailing. But I can totally see how someone wouldn't like the more raucous stuff that Pete sings. It's not for everyone.
Btw, I also had a similarly cherished 120-minute cassette on which I recorded the first three Steve Hackett albums.
Last edited by Koreabruce; 07-28-2016 at 03:47 AM.
Nope. There are killer drums on pretty much every 80's Genesis album. Phil never fails to play both tastefully and with great energy. Duke is a great album for the drum work. Listen to Behind the Lines and Duke's Travels. Abacab's got some really raw drums by design, and the playing is great on every track. Ditto Genesis: Mama, Second Home by the Sea, Just a Job to Do just to name the more energetic ones. While you can argue about the sound of the electronic drums on Invisible Touch, the actual playing is superb as always.
But them, I'm responding to PE's #1 pop Genesis curmudgeon...
PC is much more talented a singer than Gabriel, I still like some of Phil's stuff, still can sing on my mind some of Duke's stuff that I haven't listened again since long ago. There was a time in my life when I really enjoyed singing even some of his pop stuff, which obviously I don't forget anymore. And I totally agree with Koreabruce, Philco once more proved on Duke the great drummer he always was.
But speaking of my today's tastes, I enjoy MUCH more Jim Kerr's more aggressive and profound artistic approach on SM, besides being pretty more 80's ROCK oriented than PC on 80's Genesis.
Last edited by Rick Robson; 07-28-2016 at 05:57 AM.
"Beethoven can write music, thank God, but he can do nothing else on earth. ". Ludwig van Beethoven
Lucky ya
Last edited by Rick Robson; 07-28-2016 at 05:59 AM.
"Beethoven can write music, thank God, but he can do nothing else on earth. ". Ludwig van Beethoven
Agreed. I rather like "Throwing It All Away" as well.
I believe he's also mentioned "Rocky Mountain Way" and "Hold The Line".
I assume those eventually gave out on you?Those 120 minute jobbies tended to get chewed far more easily than the 60 or 90s.
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
*** Join me in the Garden of Delights for 4 hours of tune-spinning... every Saturday at 5pm EST on Deep Nuggets radio! www.deepnuggets.com ***
Believe it or not, they both held up. Surprising, really, considering I played the HELL out of both of them!I assume those eventually gave out on you?
I don't think I ever made it through a full listen to We Can't Dance, so I can't even remember any of these songs:
Never a Time
Tell Me Why
Living Forever
Way of the World
Since I Lost You
Fading Lights
RE: Gabriel's voice vs. Phil's, I like Phil's fine when he's singing good material (like on Trick of the Tail, for instance). When he's singing boring music (like "You Can't Hurry Love") his voice is just as boring as the music. But I've always liked singers whose voices aren't so smooth, and have more dimension and uniqueness. I like Neil Young, Bob Dylan, etc. Don't like Tom Waits though, because I find his music pretty boring.
It'd be interesting to know if those who don't like PG's voice also don't like Neil Young or Bob Dylan.
'Fading Lights' is great and was (as it turned out) the perfect send-off to the Collins era. I was hoping they'd play it live on the 2007 tour...they did include it on the end credits of When In Rome.
Well, you're not the only one who feels that way; I too listen to and like lots of pop but not Genesis' pop. I actually think the like-minded folks around here are being respectful to this thread's intent and staying out of it, which is admirable behavior!
I like about half of Duke and about a third of ABACAB. After that, there's a few songs here and there, but I don't own any of the albums. I'm not sure I can explain it in a way anybody will understand. A lot of it has to do with having been a Genesis fan in the '70s and witnessing various things I loved about their music gradually vanish. You know; all those interesting textures, the long and intricate instrumental sections, the odd meters, that kind of stuff! Sure, some '80s Genesis was kind of proggy, but not compared to everything from Nursery Cryme through Wind & Wuthering. And their pop was catchy enough, but I just found it kind of bland. Ironically, I favored Genesis over Yes as a '70s prog band, but I liked what Yes did as an '80s pop band much more than what Genesis was doing. Part of it was the ballsy rock Trevor Rabin brought to Yes; a thing that was sorely lacking in Genesis' pop and though I wouldn't expect everybody to mind that, I certainly did. I think 90125 was more progressive and ambitious than anything Genesis did after Duke. And I actually like Peter Gabriel's pop in the '80s much better than his former band's, to tell the truth; it just felt more... I don't know... sincere.
I won't go on, it's hard to explain one's musical tastes, harder to try and justify them and in the end, who cares?! I held nothing personal against Genesis for the musical direction they went in; I was actually happy for them that they were finally making great money after years of being in debt. They gave me enough music to love and savor in the '70s; I felt they decided to make music for other people (than me at least) to love and savor in the '80s. To object would be selfish and bratty. I respect all of those who enjoy '80s Genesis; sorry I can't join in!
I don't mind 80's Genesis, but like everybody else, I will pretend I hate them so I look cool and credible and can show my face at RoSfest without fear of being mocked.
"Alienated-so alien I go!"
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