F1 Racing

[Hal...]

I'm glad it finished the way it did but it should have never gotten to that point in the first place. I have always felt that if a race has gotten to 90% of race distance - or whatever percentage you want - that there should be no red flag. Or if there is, the race shouldn't be restarted. NASCAR was the one who started that stupid shit and now other series have followed suit. And the reason I feel that way is because of what just happened in the Australian GP, which has happened numerous times at Indy. It's one of the main reasons I quit watching the Indy 500. It feels and looks bush league and puts people in danger unnecessarily. And had they not restarted the race the third time, the Alpines would have finished the race, where they should have. The only bright spots were Sainz's 5 second penalty (which he deserved, imo) and Alonso finishing third.

And speaking of red flags, I felt the first one was completely unnecessary and totally fucked over George Russell. Not that he finished - and probably wouldn't have won anyway had he done so - but that's irrelevant, imo. A red flag because of needed repairs to the wall or to remove car debris from the track is one thing but for sweeping gravel off of the track? C'mon. It was a bullshit call.

Something else I've never liked is a team's ability to change tires and parts on a car during a red flag. It's an unfair advantage that they get.

[SteveSly]

I respectfully disagree. I hate races that finish under yellow flags and loved it when most race series went to the green / white / checker overtime system. Yes, it sometimes causes chaos, but there is nothing worse than spending 3 hours at a race track and having the finish under yellow IMO. I thought the ending of the GP was entertaining as hell.

Regarding red flags, I agree with you there that they should only be thrown in the case of facility repairs that are needed for safety reasons, a driver who is seriously hurt, or the track being blocked by debris. I agree that the first red flag was bullshit and Russell was the victim.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

They definitely are getting a bit trigger happy with red flags it seems. I guess its from a safety perspective but they are definitely bending too far in that direction now IMO.

That said, I wish the race could have been restarted...to me that was the issue. You stopped them to basically just drive around behind the safety car. At that point, just have the race end under caution. I do prefer them trying to end the race under green in general but obviously there are times where the situation dictates otherwise.

And I can't imagine F1 is trying to follow in nascars footsteps. what happened in austrailia wouldn't have happened in a nascar race. It probably would have been even more chaotic for the nascar race for one.

[Duncan Glenday]

Boy what a clusterfuck at the end of austrailia.

Yep - brought back PTSD from the final minutes of the 2021 season.

The FIA needs to sort their shit out! They're turning the sport into a mockery, and will never draw new fans as long as this kind of crap continues.

Great race until the last few laps, though! Being a street circuit, I was expecting a snooze-fest.

[Hal...]

It feels and looks bush league and puts people in danger unnecessarily.

I respectfully disagree. I hate races that finish under yellow flags and loved it when most race series went to the green / white / checker overtime system. Yes, it sometimes causes chaos, but there is nothing worse than spending 3 hours at a race track and having the finish under yellow IMO. I thought the ending of the GP was entertaining as hell.

There's a huge difference between nascar and F1 & IRL because open wheel racing is significantly more dangerous than everything else due to the possibility of a car becoming airborne when tires of two cars touch. Not to mention that standing (re)starts in F1 are chaotic as hell to begin with. And in the IRL, cars are going significantly faster. How many times have you seen a restart during the late stages of the Indy 500 where drivers are taking stupid risks and people get injured?

I'm of the opinion that red flags should be reduced as much as possible, happening only in rare cases. There is absolutely no reason why the safety car can't regulate the speed of the field so that track marshals can clear the track while the cars are elsewhere. This would actually accomplish two things: (a) less laps under yellow, increasing laps under green, and (b) eliminate many of the red flags increasingly being thrown. And to facilitate getting the cars under control as quickly as possible, have three safety cars; one at pit exit and the other two at the beginning of sectors 2 and 3.

But, as I said earlier, the last red flag shouldn't have happened. Having the final two laps run under green for entertainment purposes is unacceptable to me. Indeed, everyone would be criticizing the FIA if Gasly and/or Ocon was seriously injured... or worse. It's not worth the risk!

F1 is the pinnacle of motor racing and its rules should reflect that.

[Duncan Glenday]

...Sainz's 5 second penalty (which he deserved, imo)...

Agreed! I like Sainz, but he was in the wrong.

They definitely are getting a bit trigger happy with red flags it seems....

Yep - brought back PTSD from the final minutes of the 2021 season...

AND - just to add irony to the clusterfuck, Michael Masi was there watching it all, and probably laughing his head off!

[Duncan Glenday]

And on an unrelated note - I felt really bad for Hulkenberg, whose "drive was better than his car", was well into the points ... and had an engine failure on the last, safety-car lap

[Duncan Glenday]

Oh well - I think we've just seen at least 2 episodes of Drive To Survive - Season 6

[SteveSly]

But, as I said earlier, the last red flag shouldn't have happened. Having the final two laps run under green for entertainment purposes is unacceptable to me. Indeed, everyone would be criticizing the FIA if Gasly and/or Ocon was seriously injured... or worse. It's not worth the risk!

.

Maybe I am just too used to sprint car racing (my personal favorite) where yellow flag laps do not count and there is always a green flag finish. Open wheel cars going over 160 MPH wheel to wheel. I realize it is completely different from F-1, but I still like green flag finishes.

I totally agree with you about the red flag situation.

[Duncan Glenday]

Alpine.jpg
(Click to enlarge)

[Hal...]

This should be a really interesting race, today. The grid's all mixed up, Leclerc is on row 4, and Max is on row 5.

The best part is Perez and Alonso are on row 1. I'd love to see Fernando win but I just don't think the Aston Martin has the pace of the Red Bull.

[Sunlight Caller]

I hoped for a little more out of todays race with crazy mixed up grid, but it was business as usual for Red Bull. There’s clearly no other overall winner this season, the rest can scrap between themselves for third.

[Hal...]

‘The linchpin’: How F1 strategy expert Hannah Schmitz helps keep Red Bull on top

[SteveSly]

The greatest day of the racing year is upon us. Monaco Grand Prix in the Morning, Indy 500 in the afternoon, Coca Cola 600 in the evening. I’ve spread some bets sprinkled through all of the and playing fantasy in the NASCAR race. I plan to watch at least some of all 3 races.

[SteveSly]

Watched all of Monaco and Indy today. Monaco was pretty boring except when the rain came out which added a bit of drama. It was Verstappen’s race all the way though.

Indy was pretty dull until the last 50 laps or so when things got interesting several accidents which resulted in red flags and a final one lap shootout at the end. Josef Newgarden finally got his win after coming close so many times. One scary incident happened when a tire flew up over the fence and just missed the packed grandstand in turn 3. It flew over a building and landed on the hood of someone’s car. Luckily no one was hurt.

I will probably catch the tail end of the Coca Cola 600 tonight as I have fantasy racing going on with it.

[Hal...]

I've felt for a long time that Monaco is just Monaco - more of a spectacle than a race.

I don't know why I watched the Indy 500 this year. I think I said last year I was done with it. Fortunately, I started an hour or more late and was able to skip all of the commercials. I will also reiterate my comment from last year: anything that results in a red flag with less than 10 laps of the race remaining should end the race. A one lap shootout is not racing; it's a joke, and a dangerous one at that, done for no other reason than to appease the fans.

[SteveSly]

I've felt for a long time that Monaco is just Monaco - more of a spectacle than a race.

I don't know why I watched the Indy 500 this year. I think I said last year I was done with it. Fortunately, I started an hour or more late and was able to skip all of the commercials. I will also reiterate my comment from last year: anything that results in a red flag with less than 10 laps of the race remaining should end the race. A one lap shootout is not racing; it's a joke, and a dangerous one at that, done for no other reason than to appease the fans.

We will agree to disagree. I come from the short track racing world where races never end under a yellow flag. In Sprint Car Racing yellow flags do not count, and if a flag happens in the last 3 laps they go Green, White Checker similar to Nascar. They are open wheel cars as well. I have been to Indy Car races that end in a yellow flag. After paying big bucks for tickets, sitting in traffic for hours, and usually in the hot sun, a yellow flag finish sucks.

[NogbadTheBad]

Monaco is usually a glorious procession

[Hobo Chang Ba]

We will agree to disagree. I come from the short track racing world where races never end under a yellow flag. In Sprint Car Racing yellow flags do not count, and if a flag happens in the last 3 laps they go Green, White Checker similar to Nascar. They are open wheel cars as well. I have been to Indy Car races that end in a yellow flag. After paying big bucks for tickets, sitting in traffic for hours, and usually in the hot sun, a yellow flag finish sucks.

Agree. The one lap thing was a bit strange, but no real complaints. I also wouldn't have complained if they ended it at that second to last restart either. But in general... There are alot of incidents in the last 10 laps that absolutely should not end the race and a proper finish is always more satisfying.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

Monaco is usually a glorious procession

This is true. But I stll love Monaco.

[Duncan Glenday]

I've felt for a long time that Monaco is just Monaco - more of a spectacle than a race.
...

From a racing perspective - it's my least favorite on the calendar.

...
I will also reiterate my comment from last year: anything that results in a red flag with less than 10 laps of the race remaining should end the race. A one lap shootout is not racing; it's a joke, and a dangerous one at that, done for no other reason than to appease the fans.

It was a kinda repeat of Verstappen "beating" Hamilton for the world championship at the end of 2021 .

[Duncan Glenday]

I'm not very familiar with Indy racing, and have only watched a dozen or so races. But after seeing a re-run of yesterday's 500, I was amazed at the chaotic pit scenes!

Compared to F1, it was like watching a slap-stick movie. NO control and extreme danger.

Your thoughts?

[SteveSly]

I'm not very familiar with Indy racing, and have only watched a dozen or so races. But after seeing a re-run of yesterday's 500, I was amazed at the chaotic pit scenes!

Compared to F1, it was like watching a slap-stick movie. NO control and extreme danger.

Your thoughts?

There was a near disaster in pit lane for the 500 yesterday when Katherine Legge came awfully close to running into more than one pit crew member. I don’t know if something was wrong with her car or if she lost control, but it was close to a very bad incident. It was an inexperienced pit crew with an inexperienced driver which is never a good combination.

The biggest difference between Indy and F-1 is the amount of pit stops. Indy car races are typically much longer than F-1 races, so the number of pit stops are doubled or more. For a race like the Indy 500 you are looking at an average of around 7 pit stops as opposed to 1 or 2 for F-1. There are also more cars in the race. Most F-1 races have around 20 cars (or less) in a race. For Indy you are looking at 33 cars. Thus, you have 50 pit stops for F-1 as opposed to over 200 for Indy Cars. The vast majority of Indy Car pit stops go as planned, but with so many of them, there are bound to be more mistakes as well, so that tends to get more tv time.

[Sunlight Caller]

From a racing perspective - it's my least favorite on the calendar.

I used to love Monaco, but with the larger cars it is becoming rather boring. Thankfully the rain added some spice to the latter stages, without I think we would have finished with hardly a position change from the starting grid.

It was a kinda repeat of Verstappen "beating" Hamilton for the world championship at the end of 2021 .

That crazy decision still irks me. I hope the new Mercedes upgrades make them more competitive in races to come. We were never going to be able to assess anything from the slow tight Monaco circuit, but the championship needs someone challenging Max, and nobody else is consistently close enough to him at present.

[Duncan Glenday]

That crazy decision still irks me. I hope the new Mercedes upgrades make them more competitive in races to come. We were never going to be able to assess anything from the slow tight Monaco circuit, but the championship needs someone challenging Max, and nobody else is consistently close enough to him at present.

Yep - that was one of the all-time cluster***s in F1. And speaking of close-run championships, note that Massa is now challenging Hamilton's win in 2008!

We'll be at an actual racing circuit next weekend, and it will be interesting to see how the Mercs fare at that venue.