F1 Racing

[Duncan Glenday]

Norris was right in his appraisal, Verstappen was lucky with the red flag and the free tyre change, but McLaren made a bad call to switch his tyres just before that incident.
...

This weekend reinforces my position on red flags:

Teams should NOT be allowed to change tires (or make other repairs / changes) under a red flag.

That would have allowed the red flag conditions (i.e. safety etc.), BUT the red flag would have had minimal impact on the race results.

[Sunlight Caller]

I am in total agreement Duncan, it seems a rather crazy rule, and throws a lottery element into proceedings. In a sport that comes down to micro-seconds, why have that additional element of chance in the mix? Might as well go and play roulette.

[interbellum]

Norris was right in his appraisal, Verstappen was lucky with the red flag and the free tyre change, but McLaren made a bad call to switch his tyres just before that incident.

From what I understood Verstappen was UNlucky with the red flag during the qualifying race, which co-caused his startposition.

[SteveSly]

This weekend reinforces my position on red flags:

Teams should NOT be allowed to change tires (or make other repairs / changes) under a red flag.

That would have allowed the red flag conditions (i.e. safety etc.), BUT the red flag would have had minimal impact on the race results.

In just about every other form of racing on the planet repairs / adjustments of any kind (inlcluding tires) are not allowed during red flag conditions. It seems odd to me that F-1 would allow it.

[Duncan Glenday]

From what I understood Verstappen was UNlucky with the red flag during the qualifying race, which co-caused his startposition.

Correct. The unlucky red flag during qualifying (probably) caused him to start in P17 on the grid.

But in the race:

- He worked his way up to 4th.
- The drivers in P1 and P2 stopped for a tire change.
- This put Verstappen in P2 - which should have been temporary, since he would soon have to make a pit-stop. I.e. Verstappen (among others) would stop for tires, and come out in (somewhere around) P4.
- But the red flag happened right then.
- Verstappen got new tires under the red flag, remaining in P2.
- So he was able to avoid the 20+second delay of a pit stop, thus leap-frogging the others who did a normal pit-stop.

[Hal...]

From what I understood Verstappen was UNlucky with the red flag during the qualifying race, which co-caused his startposition.

Correct. The unlucky red flag during qualifying (probably) caused him to start in P17 on the grid.

But in the race:

- He worked his way up to 4th.
- The drivers in P1 and P2 stopped for a tire change.
- This put Verstappen in P2 - which should have been temporary, since he would soon have to make a pit-stop. I.e. Verstappen (among others) would stop for tires, and come out in (somewhere around) P4.
- But the red flag happened right then.
- Verstappen got new tires under the red flag, remaining in P2.
- So he was able to avoid the 20+second delay of a pit stop, thus leap-frogging the others who did a normal pit-stop.

I think Rene's point is that if Max hadn't gotten unlucky with the red flag during Q2, he would have started much higher on the grid. And we know how he can be in Q3. Indeed, if you look at how many times he set fastest lap during the race, Max probably would have had the pole, anyway.

And might I just say, rather than just whine about how lucky Max got with the red flag during the race (which many other drivers have benefited from), why don't we admit what a brilliant race he drove, which it was. Max's biggest problem is the same I've seen from other drivers in that top tier, that I pointed out in an earlier post: in certain situations, they don't care if they go out of the race, they're either going to get by another driver or won't let them get past. And, imo, Senna was the biggest culprit of that, which is why I never cared for him.

[Duncan Glenday]

I think Rene's point is that if Max hadn't gotten unlucky with the red flag during Q2...

Yes, I agreed he was unlucky in qualifying.

And might I just say, rather than just whine about how lucky Max got with the red flag during the race (which many other drivers have benefited from), why don't we admit what a brilliant race he drove, which it was...

No question, it was a brilliant drive! And if the red flag hadn't occurred, he would have been somewhere on the podium anyway.

My wife hates Verstappen I'm not a Verstappen fan, but unlike my wife, I definitely appreciate his driving, and I'm okay with some of his aggressive overtakes etc. We should not "nanny" the drivers - let them get their own elbows out, and hit back - if they have the capability. If I was the king of the F1 world, a lot of the recent penalties etc. would be written off as racing incidents. It's supposed to be competitive, and that will lead to some aggression. Deal with it!



Anyway, my point wasn't just about Verstappen specifically. (LeClerc also benefitted). My point was more generic, regarding F1's rules: Others, in previous races, have also benefitted / lost because of the ability to change tires under a red flag.

IMO The rules should NOT allow any team to change tires or make any repairs under a red flag. I.e. to the extent possible, a red flag should have the minimum possible impact on the race's outcome - kinda like a safety car.

And on that note, I far prefer a VSC over a safety car, because it attempts to maintain the gaps between drivers, thus minimizing the race's outcome.

[Hal...]

Anyway, my point wasn't just about Verstappen specifically. (LeClerc also benefitted).

Oh, I know. FYI, I wasn't singling you out or anything.

My point was more generic, regarding F1's rules: Others, in previous races, have also benefitted / lost because of the ability to change tires under a red flag.

IMO The rules should NOT allow any team to change tires or make any repairs under a red flag. I.e. to the extent possible, a red flag should have the minimum possible impact on the race's outcome - kinda like a safety car.

Totally agree. I've seen a red flag that was both beneficial and detrimental (in different races, of course) to a fave driver because of one. I've never liked it, but I used to think, "you gotta take the good with the bad." Over time, however, I've come to really dislike it.

And on that note, I far prefer a VSC over a safety car, because it attempts to maintain the gaps between drivers, thus minimizing the race's outcome.

I agree and disagree. As long as the need for a full course caution is only for a minor issue, when there's no danger to the course marshals, then a VSC is perfectly fine. But when there's some debris (as opposed to half the car being all over the track) or a car is in a dangerous spot, then the SC needs to be deployed to get the field backed up to allow the marshals time to clear the course.