F1 Racing

[Duncan Glenday]

Did you guys catch qualifying for Monza? What a mess. And the commentators from Sky were cracking me up.

That was ... interesting! I always get so pissed-off with the teams leaaving everything to the very last instant. They get a drafting advantage, but that's far outweighed by the traffic disadvantage.

The last time I saw a cluster*** like that was ... MONZA! in 2019. That was nuts!

A lot of times the Sky commentators make quips in the course of conversation that most people miss - but they're hilarious! Brundle is the best at that, IMO.

Yeah, it was bonkers alright. This is the funnest weekend I've had in ages.


What I'd like to know is what's wrong with that seat? Gasly had it and lost it. Albon showed promise last year (I championed him for the seat over Gasly after having some good results in the Alpha Tauri) but his results have been mixed. Prior to that, Kvyat was the #2 to Riccicardo and couldn't do anything with it. Max replaced him and Daniel left.

If I was a driver at Alpha Tauri and was offered the #2 seat at Red Bull, I'd be like, "thanks, but no thanks."

Totally agree with your comments about Gasly and Albon. I also rooted for Albon over Gasly a yeat ago, but in retrospect, that wasn't the best move for Red Bull. Yes, Gasly was a bit lucky today, but it's been fun watching him race against Albon all year

Even if the red flag and the unreasonable penalties hadn't happened, there was a lot of great overtaking for a change. And watching Hamilton tear through the field to finish just 2 behind Botas was epic!

Often, my wife and I will make comments about the race - and 30 seconds later, the Sky commentators say the same thing. One of the things we were talking about today before the commentators said anything about it was -- this is like a reverse-grid sprint race. I've changed my mind, and think they'd be fun!

[Hal...]

In Q3, for their second run, just about everyone came out of the pits at the same time.

Correction: it was at the end of Q2. My mistake.

A lot of times the Sky commentators make quips in the course of conversation that most people miss - but they're hilarious! Brundle is the best at that, IMO.

Yeah, he and Ted Kravitz. Ted's pretty funny, anyway.

...it's been fun watching him race against Albon all year

Right?

One of the things we were talking about today before the commentators said anything about it was -- this is like a reverse-grid sprint race. I've changed my mind, and think they'd be fun!

I remember Croft & Brundle talking about it last year and the problem they identified was that, during qualifying, the drivers would be competing to see who'd go slowest. How could you come up with rules to counteract that?

Thinking about it yesterday I thought of two possible solutions:

1. Blind Implementation

a. Reverse Order Gridding (like my new term?) would only be done for half of the races - after eliminating those few tracks where overtaking is nearly impossible, like Monaco, Suzuka, et al.
b. To pick which tracks would use ROG, small, sealed envelopes with a note in it would be labeled either "normal" or "reverse order", with an equal number for each. The envelopes would then be blindly/randomly drawn out and assigned to each track corresponding to the schedule.
c. Keep each envelope sealed until after qualifying for each race, at which point, the envelope is opened and the announcement made that the grid would be normal or in reverse order.

All of this, of course, is done under the watchful eyes of the FIA, race stewards, team principals, drivers, media, and the world. lol

2. Qualifying Point System

I haven't really worked this one out but points could be awarded to drivers and/or teams for how well they qualify.

I don't know how fair it all is but it sure would make for an entertaining season!

[Sunlight Caller]

It was good to watch a different race for a change, but I felt a bit sorry for Lewis, he would have equaled the best successive podium streak. It was a major fuck up from Mercedes though, but ultimately will not harm his imperious march to the title.

Do you guys remember all the way back to when John Watson was racing and some circuits suited his non-turbo boasted car (McClaren?) better? I remember him carving through the field from the back to take the chequered flag (possibly in the US). Lewis’s second half reminded me of those days, shame there were not a few more laps.

[Duncan Glenday]

...
I remember Croft & Brundle talking about it last year and the problem they identified was that, during qualifying, the drivers would be competing to see who'd go slowest. How could you come up with rules to counteract that?

Thinking about it yesterday I thought of two possible solutions:

1. Blind Implementation

a. Reverse Order Gridding (like my new term?) would only be done for half of the races - after eliminating those few tracks where overtaking is nearly impossible, like Monaco, Suzuka, et al.
b. To pick which tracks would use ROG, small, sealed envelopes with a note in it would be labeled either "normal" or "reverse order", with an equal number for each. The envelopes would then be blindly/randomly drawn out and assigned to each track corresponding to the schedule.
c. Keep each envelope sealed until after qualifying for each race, at which point, the envelope is opened and the announcement made that the grid would be normal or in reverse order.

All of this, of course, is done under the watchful eyes of the FIA, race stewards, team principals, drivers, media, and the world. lol

2. Qualifying Point System

I haven't really worked this one out but points could be awarded to drivers and/or teams for how well they qualify.

I don't know how fair it all is but it sure would make for an entertaining season!

Simple:

Two free practice sessions on Friday.

Qualifying on Saturday morning.

Reverse-grid sprint race on Saturday afternoon, with championship points! Say - half the points of a regular race - or if that encourages drivers to game the system, you could increase or reduce that points percentage as needed.

Regular race on Sunday.



Formula 2 does something similar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIA_Fo...p#Race_weekend
...but I think my system would be simpler, and more exciting. (Probably more dangerous, though.)

[Duncan Glenday]

I just read that Marko admits that Albon has not had the same parts in his car as Verstappen!

[Hal...]

Explains Albon's lack of success. That and the fact that they often run Albon on a different strategy. It also explains why RB is sticking with him for the time being.

BTW, trying to find info on it, I ran across this in an article from Planet F1:

According to [Lewis Hamilton], Albon is letting the team down as he is “not there”, leaving it to Verstappen to carry the team.

“What you have got to look at with the Red Bulls is that they do have a very good car,” he told Sky F1. "People downplay it but they have got a very strong car and Max is doing a great job with it. Unfortunately both drivers are not there like me and Valtteri are there. That makes it harder for them. I’ve experienced that myself many years ago when I was at McLaren and I was the driver always at the front."

Lewis just dissed Alonso, Button, and Rosberg in a single sentence, forgetting that Button finished higher in one season and Rosberg won the championship.

I still think McLaren fucked over Alonso. He was the #1 driver and two time defending champion but Ron Dennis played favorites.

[Hal...]

Do you guys remember all the way back to when John Watson was racing and some circuits suited his non-turbo boasted car (McClaren?) better? I remember him carving through the field from the back to take the chequered flag (possibly in the US). Lewis’s second half reminded me of those days, shame there were not a few more laps.

I remember Watson but don't remember the race. I also remember commentators calling him "Dr John Watson". Was he a doctor and if so, of what? Or was it a joke since he had the same name as the Sherlock Holmes character?

[Duncan Glenday]

Explains Albon's lack of success. That and the fact that they often run Albon on a different strategy. It also explains why RB is sticking with him for the time being.

BTW, trying to find info on it, I ran across this in an article from Planet F1:

According to [Lewis Hamilton], Albon is letting the team down as he is “not there”, leaving it to Verstappen to carry the team.

“What you have got to look at with the Red Bulls is that they do have a very good car,” he told Sky F1. "People downplay it but they have got a very strong car and Max is doing a great job with it. Unfortunately both drivers are not there like me and Valtteri are there. That makes it harder for them. I’ve experienced that myself many years ago when I was at McLaren and I was the driver always at the front."

Lewis just dissed Alonso, Button, and Rosberg in a single sentence, forgetting that Button finished higher in one season and Rosberg won the championship.

I still think McLaren fucked over Alonso. He was the #1 driver and two time defending champion but Ron Dennis played favorites.

I hope he loses this big-headed attitude! I've always been a big supporter, but comments like this will loose me as a fan.

[chalkpie]

Agreed!



I really hope Haas doesn't leave - though I'm not a fan of either of their drivers.

(Steiner was fun on the Neflix series, though!)

Steiner had me crying I was laughing so hard!

[Hobo Chang Ba]

Is it me or they throwing out the safety car/red flag alot more this year than they usually do?

(Slight preface...I haven't really watched in the past three or so years, so perhaps this has been a thing for longer than just 2020).

[viukkis]

There are fewer track marshals this year for social distancing reasons, which might have some effect. In general, the number of safety car periods increased greatly after Bianchi's fatal accident in 2014, because now every time a car is stranded somewhere on the track, the safety car comes out so there is no chance of anyone else going off in the same spot while the marshals are still removing the car.

[NogbadTheBad]

Another bonkers start to a race yesterday though it eventually settled down into routine. That second crash was horrendous with the back of the pack thinking the race had restarted.

[Duncan Glenday]

Is it me or they throwing out the safety car/red flag alot more this year than they usually do?

(Slight preface...I haven't really watched in the past three or so years, so perhaps this has been a thing for longer than just 2020).

Not sure about the first red flag - but with the second, as with last week : If the protective barriers are damaged, they cannot continue. The barriers need to be repaired before cars are allowed back on the track. (Remember the Bianchi incident?)

[Hobo Chang Ba]

I agree that the second one was necessary. And it's not just red flags but safety cars as well. I remember when I started watching f1 in the mid 2000s a safety car deployment was a pretty big deal. But I don't mean for my question to focus on the Tuscan GP. This whole year they've just seemed very eager to throw these things and I just don't remember it being this way, even five years ago. Did this start right after the Bianchi incident? (Also, wasn't the bianchi incident a result of a car being removed from the track and not barrier destruction?)

[Duncan Glenday]

I agree that they've become too quick to deploy a safety car.

And they became quicker after the Bianchi incident, especially regarding equipment on the track, repairs to the safety barriers, or (I think) anything that could cause a similar disaster.

[Hal...]

The latest on Michael Schumacher.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

The latest on Michael Schumacher.

[Duncan Glenday]

Yesterday's race was all about Albon / Gasly, AFAIC.

And I agree with Hamilton - they're doing anything they can to block him - it's getting personal.

I loved Botas's radio comment at the end, to his critics!

[Sunlight Caller]

It was difficult to argue with Lewis's penalty for ignoring the pit land closure a few weeks back, but Sunday's decisions were very harsh indeed. However given the resources at Mercedes disposal, you would think they would have been all over the local rules and would have prevented such an infringement from happening.

[Hal...]

I don't think I've ever been so interested in a season where I know who the driving champ is going to be. The mid pack race is where it's at. Once again, Renault, Racing Point, and McLaren were all battling for 4th-8th (based on the starting grid). It's just unfortunate Sainz had another DNF or he would have been up there, too.

Perez had another great finish and Danny Ric placed well, too, albeit 22 seconds behind. Leclerc pulled one out of his ass to finish 10 secs behind in 6th and Ocon 6 secs behind him for 7th.

The Alpha Tauris placed well and Albon rounded out the top ten. And can you believe Giovinazzi finished 11th, ahead of 7 other cars???

Not sure what happened to Norris who started 8th and went backward, placing 15th.

Was disappointed with Russell's placement: the last car running and two places behind his teammate. Bad day for him, I guess.

--------------------

BTW, from the last I've seen/heard/read, Perez still doesn't have a drive for next year. It's really unfortunate Vettel took his seat because the last few seasons, Perez has really proven he deserves a good ride.

So far, here is the confirmed lineup for the also-rans:

Ferrari - Leclerc, Sainz
McLaren - Danny Ric, ?
Racing Point - Vettel, Stroll
Red Bull - Verstappen, ?
Renault - Alonso, Ocon

Alfa Romeo, Alpha Tauri, nor Haas have confirmed their driver lineups yet.

Red Bull has not stated they're making any changes but Albon isn't confirmed, yet.

I really hope Perez ends up at a good team. What I'd like to see is this:

McLaren - Ricciardo, Norris
Red Bull - Verstappen, Perez
Alpha Tauri - Gasly, Albon

I don't really care about Alfa or Haas. Neither is competitive. Maybe they need different engines. I don't know why Alfa isn't using one of their own.

--------------------

BTW, did you guys know that Alfa was originally an acronym: Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili (Anonymous Lombarda Automobile Factory)? I didn't. According to Wikipedia, Nicola Romeo, who owned a company that made machinery for mining companies, acquired the majority share of ALFA in 1915 and by 1918 owned it outright. "Romeo" was added in 1920 and that's how the company became Alfa Romeo.

Check out Peter de Klerk's '63 F1 car with an Alfa engine in it:

However given the resources at Mercedes disposal, you would think they would have been all over the local rules and would have prevented such an infringement from happening.

Agreed. And for that reason, I don't think it was Lewis' fault, it was Mercedes'. The penalty just happened to be administered to Lewis. I didn't have a problem with the penalty because, realistically, Lewis is running away with the championship... again.

[NogbadTheBad]

And they removed the penalty points from Lewis as the FIA blamed the team.

[Duncan Glenday]

I don't think I've ever been so interested in a season where I know who the driving champ is going to be. The mid pack race is where it's at. Once again, Renault, Racing Point, and McLaren were all battling for 4th-8th (based on the starting grid). It's just unfortunate Sainz had another DNF or he would have been up there, too.

Perez had another great finish and Danny Ric placed well, too, albeit 22 seconds behind. Leclerc pulled one out of his ass to finish 10 secs behind in 6th and Ocon 6 secs behind him for 7th.

The Alpha Tauris placed well and Albon rounded out the top ten. And can you believe Giovinazzi finished 11th, ahead of 7 other cars???

Not sure what happened to Norris who started 8th and went backward, placing 15th.

Was disappointed with Russell's placement: the last car running and two places behind his teammate. Bad day for him, I guess.

--------------------

BTW, from the last I've seen/heard/read, Perez still doesn't have a drive for next year. It's really unfortunate Vettel took his seat because the last few seasons, Perez has really proven he deserves a good ride.

So far, here is the confirmed lineup for the also-rans:

Ferrari - Leclerc, Sainz
McLaren - Danny Ric, ?
Racing Point - Vettel, Stroll
Red Bull - Verstappen, ?
Renault - Alonso, Ocon

Alfa Romeo, Alpha Tauri, nor Haas have confirmed their driver lineups yet.

Red Bull has not stated they're making any changes but Albon isn't confirmed, yet.

I really hope Perez ends up at a good team. What I'd like to see is this:

McLaren - Ricciardo, Norris
Red Bull - Verstappen, Perez
Alpha Tauri - Gasly, Albon

I don't really care about Alfa or Haas. Neither is competitive. Maybe they need different engines. I don't know why Alfa isn't using one of their own.

--------------------

BTW, did you guys know that Alfa was originally an acronym: Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili (Anonymous Lombarda Automobile Factory)? I didn't. According to Wikipedia, Nicola Romeo, who owned a company that made machinery for mining companies, acquired the majority share of ALFA in 1915 and by 1918 owned it outright. "Romeo" was added in 1920 and that's how the company became Alfa Romeo.

Check out Peter de Klerk's '63 F1 car with an Alfa engine in it:




Agreed. And for that reason, I don't think it was Lewis' fault, it was Mercedes'. The penalty just happened to be administered to Lewis. I didn't have a problem with the penalty because, realistically, Lewis is running away with the championship... again.

I agree that the race is in the mid-pack. If you ignore the front runners, it's pretty damned exciting!

It's a 1-horse-race right now, with Verstappen and Botas battling for 2nd. And then 4 other teams (8 cars).

I disliked Verstappen in the beginning but am warming up to him. The way he gets performance out of the same car Albon drives is seriously impressive.

The way I see the wind blowing, Perez will get into a Haas - and it's about time they tossed Grosjean, IMO. Brilliant driver - except when he isn't. Too mercurial. The way the pinks have treated Perez has been unacceptable, IMO. He had an inferior car to Stroll this weekend but still did well. I wish Stroll hadn't crashed out, so we could see Perez beat him despite the differences in the cars' setups.

I'm thrilled that Alfa (as opposed to 'Alpha' ) is back in F1, and it's interesting to see them giving the Ferraris a run for their money since they have the same engines. Developing an engine of their own is a non-starter, IMO. F1 engines are SO complex now, and with Ferrari being a major shareholder in Alfa, I suggest that won't ever happen.

BTW - I heard that Raikkonen has been signed for another year. has that been confirmed?

And they removed the penalty points from Lewis as the FIA blamed the team.

GOOD! I've always thought that some penalties should impact the team (constructor points) and not the driver. Yes, I know, "win as a team / lose as a team" - but I'm sticking to my opinion.)

[Hal...]

I agree that the race is in the mid-pack. If you ignore the front runners, it's pretty damned exciting!

Right?

It's a 1-horse-race right now, with Verstappen and Botas battling for 2nd.

I don't see Max getting close to Botas by the end of the season. But you remind me that, for the first time in maybe ever, I haven't looked at the standings all season. Here they are:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

Hamilton Botas Verstappen Norris Albon Ricciardo Leclerc Stroll Perez Gasly Sainz Ocon

205 161 128 65 64 63 57 57 56 45 41 36

Everyone else is in the teens or less, with three drivers having no points: 19 Latifi, 20 Russell, and 21 Grosjean. Incidentally, Hulkenberg has 6. lol

There are still seven races left so 4th thru 11th is still going to be a battle (I don't see Ocon getting into the fray), as long as Perez keeps up the pressure and Sainz can finish races.

But we forgot about Hulk, didn't we? Maybe he and Albon should go to Haas. Or better yet, go to Alpha Tauri and let Kvyat go to Haas.

I disliked Verstappen in the beginning but am warming up to him. The way he gets performance out of the same car Albon drives is seriously impressive.

I know what you mean. He was often petulant and, thus, dangerous. But, yeah, his talent is undeniable.

The way I see the wind blowing, Perez will get into a Haas...

God, I hope not. From F1-Fansite.com: Perez would accept Red Bull offer

Horner would be stupid to pass on Perez.

and it's about time they tossed Grosjean, IMO. Brilliant driver - except when he isn't. Too mercurial.

Agreed. He still occasionally displays petulance... and he's 34!

The way the pinks have treated Perez has been unacceptable, IMO.

I wasn't aware of this until I read some things about next year's lineup: it was due to Perez that Force India became Racing Point. The thing I read basically said, "Perez helped create Racing Point who then tossed him aside in favor of Vettel." Obviously, I'm paraphrasing. I didn't look at what Perez actually did - I was too focused on finding out details about next year's lineup - I just saw it in passing. But here's a synopsis from Wikipedia: 2018 Season

Perez brings a lot of sponsorship money from Mexico so he should be a prized catch.

There's also this, which I hope doesn't happen: McLaren opens Indycar door for axed Perez

He had an inferior car to Stroll this weekend but still did well.

That reminds me. In the early days of his career, I dismissed him. Like many younger drivers, he showed brilliance but then would do stupid shit or not perform as well as his teammate. It's only been in the last year or so that I've realized what a workman he's become. He just puts his head down and gets the best out of the car he can, often going longer than other drivers on the same set of tires as he ekes out increasingly larger gaps. And I think that's why he had previously gone unnoticed by me. Danny Ric is kind of the same way, except that he often ends up too far down in the running order (for whatever reason) and then claws his way back up.

Developing an engine of their own is a non-starter, IMO. F1 engines are SO complex now, and with Ferrari being a major shareholder in Alfa, I suggest that won't ever happen.

Yeah, you're right. It's no longer like the old days when a company like Ford Cosworth could just pump out engines for anyone to buy.

BTW - I heard that Raikkonen has been signed for another year. has that been confirmed?

F1-Fansite.com: Raikkonen denies extending Alfa Romeo contract

And then there's this, which I take as pure speculation: Wolff not ruling out Hamilton-Red Bull deal

[Duncan Glenday]

God, not another moneyed daddy buying a team for his son:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/dmitry...luc2TacKRTIIyI

[NogbadTheBad]

Urgh