Movies - Take Two. Action!

[JKL2000]

I get your point, but I mean, it's like watching mafia movies. I don't get that either. Like The Godfather, or Goodfellas, I still fail to understand the appeal of those movies.

Mind you, I always had a difficult time with the plot of Quadrophenia in the first place. For one, the first time I heard Bellboy, I thought the story was supposed to be set years later, because there's the couplet "I don't suppose you'd remember me/But I used to follow you in '63". So I had the impression Jimmy was meeting Ace years later, when in fact, it's really just like a year or so later.

The other thing is, you're given the impression that Ace is supposed to be some sort of idol, but really he's just another smart aleck. I supposed we're supposed to believe he's sort of the Dungeonmaster of the Mods (sorry, my knowledge of role playing games is relatively limited, so I'm not sure what the bad asses in D&D are called).

Then there was Townshend talking about how he didn't initially like the idea of having Keith sing on Bellboy because he knew Keith would turn it into a "comedy piece", which apparently wasn't what Pete wanted. What?! Was this supposed to be some sort of tragic piece, some great tragedy that Jimmy finds out his hooligan idol had a demeaning and humiliating day job?! (shrug)

Having said that, I rather like a lot of the songs on Quadrophenia, so one just tries to listen to the music and not worry too much what the plotline.

BTW, one thing I remember hearing was, when they did Quadrophenia in Hyde Park in 96 (and I believe also at MSG later in the year), they had the actor who played Jimmy in the movie appear onstage a narrator, implying the story is being related to the listener by middle aged Jimmy. But they dispensed with that when they did the American tour toward the end of the year, having some young guy do narration, as if to imply it's the young Jimmy talking about the stuff as it was happening.

I remember someone telling me that he preferred the way it was done when he saw the MSG show, because in his mind, the story worked as the adult Jimmy recalling his misspent youth. But I think Townshend must have felt that took away the ambiguity of the story's ending. As I recall, the thing ends with Jimmy rowing out a huge rock in the middle of Brighton bay or whatever, eventually the boat drifts away and Jimmy is stranded on the rock, and apparently drowns as a rainstorm kicks up. I think Townshend even admitted that he had no idea if Jimmy makes it back to shore and survives. And he may have preferred to leave that ambiguity in place, which is impossible if you know from the outset that Jimmy lives to be at least middle aged.

Edit: ya know, it occurs to me that I'm posting this in the wrong thread.

Ace is supposed to be appealing only to the other mods because he dresses in a way that's impressive to them, and his bike is nicer than theirs. But I think the viewer is supposed to find that he's a very violent bastard. You seem to think the filmmakers wanted viewers to like all the mods and think they were cool, but I don't think that's the case. Both the mods and the rockers are supposed to be pretty pathetic, and Jimmy is just searching for some kind of identity, a group to belong to. It's not at all surprising that adults like us might identify more with the parents yelling at their kids to shape up.

[spellbound]

The Onion reviews 'Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again'

[mozo-pg]

I'd rather have pins stuck in my eyes.

[progeezer]

^^^ If that wasn't so f*****g hilarious, as a long-time fan of Bjorn & Bennie's pop hook writing genius, that would be a straight-up accurate assessment of the film imo. I haven't seen it yet, but I loved the first one and will go see this before it leaves the theaters.

So sue me.

[rcarlberg]

I'd rather have pins stuck in my eyes.

I'd rather have pins stuck in your eyes too.

I'm not diabetic, but anything ABBA sends me into a diabetic coma.

[progeezer]

Chacun a son gout.

[mozo-pg]

I'd rather have pins stuck in your eyes too.

Right back at you.

[hippypants]

Sin City was one of the most horrible "violence-against-women-sells" movies I've ever seen (and the pseudoanimation sucked too, done much better in A Scanner Darkly).


Arguable. The women (once they ganged up together) were pretty fierce against the men too in that film as I remember. It comes out of noir and a lot of that is similar. I've been watching the old 60s series The Untouchables with Robert Stack, which I enjoy a lot. For a series made back then it was pretty brutal although most of the violence happened off camera.


I did like A Scanner Darkly too.


The Devil's Own--Harrison Ford and Brad Pitt (playing a IRA member from Ireland). A rather absurd plot in many ways, but aside from that, I enjoyed it.


Faults--and odd indie film, where a guy similar to Better Call Saul is down and out, and gets hired to reprogram a young woman from her cult ties. It was pretty bizarre all the way around, but interesting.


The Shallows--Jaws wannabe or retread. It wasn't horrible, and somewhat predictable, but still kept me watching.

[GuitarGeek]

Ace is supposed to be appealing only to the other mods because he dresses in a way that's impressive to them, and his bike is nicer than theirs. But I think the viewer is supposed to find that he's a very violent bastard. You seem to think the filmmakers wanted viewers to like all the mods and think they were cool, but I don't think that's the case. Both the mods and the rockers are supposed to be pretty pathetic, and Jimmy is just searching for some kind of identity, a group to belong to. It's not at all surprising that adults like us might identify more with the parents yelling at their kids to shape up.

I guess that's where my issue is: I fail to understand why I'm supposed to want to watch a movie where the main characters are all meant to be "pretty pathetic. Like I said, it's the same thing with mob movies, for me. OK, so Sonny Corleone is an evil rat bastard son of a bitch who murders people. So why am I supposed to give a shit about his "journey"?!

I guess I like movies with characters that I can root for. Either that, or a couple stuntmen in costumes trampling a miniature mockup of the Japanese landscape. Or a five minute sequence that took Ray Harryhausen 6 months to create in his studio (bonus points if the stop motion models act better than any of the actual humans in the picture, which was quite often the case). Or something with a substantial amount of u/w scenes.

[moecurlythanu]

I guess I like movies with characters that I can root for. Either that, or a couple stuntmen in costumes trampling a miniature mockup of the Japanese landscape. Or a five minute sequence that took Ray Harryhausen 6 months to create in his studio (bonus points if the stop motion models act better than any of the actual humans in the picture, which was quite often the case). Or something with a substantial amount of u/w scenes.

Dude, don't forget the T & A!

[DocProgger]

Dude, don't forget the T & A!

I think what he needs is a nice helping of something like Something Weird's Sexy South collection, the sophisticated works of Bethel Buckalew (The Pigkeepers Daughter; Sassy Sue; Country Cuzzins; Midnight Plowboy; Sweet Georgia; Country Hooker; Tobacco Roody; Southern Comforts).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sexy-South-...p2047675.l2557

[Rogue Mail]

I guess that's where my issue is: I fail to understand why I'm supposed to want to watch a movie where the main characters are all meant to be "pretty pathetic. Like I said, it's the same thing with mob movies, for me. OK, so Sonny Corleone is an evil rat bastard son of a bitch who murders people. So why am I supposed to give a shit about his "journey"?!

I guess I like movies with characters that I can root for. Either that, or a couple stuntmen in costumes trampling a miniature mockup of the Japanese landscape. Or a five minute sequence that took Ray Harryhausen 6 months to create in his studio (bonus points if the stop motion models act better than any of the actual humans in the picture, which was quite often the case). Or something with a substantial amount of u/w scenes.

That seems a somewhat narrow viewpoint...there are many, many movies where the main characters can be despicable, yet at the same time fascinating to watch. You are clearly not meant to admire nor root for them, but they are often powerful and charismatic. Joe Pesci in Goodfellas would be a good example of this.

[DocProgger]

That seems a somewhat narrow viewpoint...there are many, many movies where the main characters can be despicable, yet at the same time fascinating to watch. You are clearly not meant to admire nor root for them, but they are often powerful and charismatic. Joe Pesci in Goodfellas would be a good example of this.

DeNiro in Taxi Driver etc
Yep, that cuts out a substantial portion of film history if you just want to "root for the good guys". That seems like a comic book mentality, and maybe that's why I enjoy true to life gritty "real life" films and am not crazy about comic book good guy bad guy films. In fact, that's what makes The Godfather such a powerful film. Told from their perspective, in a very real life accurate way, you still end up being drawn in and sympathizing with Don Corleone and his family, even though you know they are criminals. You kind of understand their motivations in the context of their battles with the other families etc. Characters are more interesting when they are more realistic and complex, not either all good or all bad.
See Philip Baker Hall's character in the gem Hard Eight for a great example.

[GuitarGeek]

That seems a somewhat narrow viewpoint...there are many, many movies where the main characters can be despicable, yet at the same time fascinating to watch. You are clearly not meant to admire nor root for them, but they are often powerful and charismatic. Joe Pesci in Goodfellas would be a good example of this.

I found nothing fascinating about Goodfellas. To me it was another movie about scumbags. Same reason I didn't check out Casino. Pulp Fiction I'm actually curious to see the front half of (it's one of the few occasions in recent years where I came in during the middle of the picture and continued watching)

In fact, that's what makes The Godfather such a powerful film. Told from their perspective, in a very real life accurate way, you still end up being drawn in and sympathizing with Don Corleone and his family, even though you know they are criminals. You kind of understand their motivations in the context of their battles with the other families etc.

The movie starts with Vito Corleone slaughtering a horse belonging to a movie executive, simply because said executive refused to hire Corleone's jackass friend. And it went downhill from there, as far as I was concerned. All I took away from that movie was "Well, that's three hours of my life I'll never get back". I sure as hell didn't sympathize for anyone in that picture, except maybe Michael Corleone's wife. I didn't even bother with the sequel. I know when to stop hitting my head against the immovable brick wall.

I think a better movie with characters "you can't root for" would be something like Lolita, or A Clockwork Orange. Ya know what, I'm not sure I'd root for anyone in Dr. Strangelove Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb, either.

Then there's something like The Boy In The Striped Pajamas, where nearly all the adult characters are Nazis. I'd kinda like to see Downfall, the movie about Hitler's last days (ya know, the one where all the Youtube parodies came from).

As for characters who "aren't good or bad", there's movies like Paper Moon and Cool Hand Luke. Actually, I don't remember much about Paper Moon, except that Ryan O'Neal plays a con man during the Depression. I might be inclined to watch again, though, if it were to pop up on one of the premium channels.

[GuitarGeek]

Dude, don't forget the T & A!

Yeah, I guess pictures like Vampyros Lesbos, Bachanelles Sexuelles, and She's 19 And Ready fall into that category. If it's got Caroline Munro, Jessica Alba, or Pam Grier in the cast, then I'm probably on board for it.

Oh, and I forgot to include a clause regarding pictures where the musical score either done by Goblin, or at least leans heavily on synthesizers.

And animated pictures, I'm often times up for that, especially if they're from other countries (where "animation" doesn't automatically equal "family entertainment", and even when it does, the standards of what is or isn't "family entertainment" are different in a territory such as Japan, versus the overly prudish American take on such things)

[Rogue Mail]

I found nothing fascinating about Goodfellas. To me it was another movie about scumbags. Same reason I didn't check out Casino. Pulp Fiction I'm actually curious to see the front half of (it's one of the few occasions in recent years where I came in during the middle of the picture and continued watching)



The movie starts with Vito Corleone slaughtering a horse belonging to a movie executive, simply because said executive refused to hire Corleone's jackass friend. And it went downhill from there, as far as I was concerned. All I took away from that movie was "Well, that's three hours of my life I'll never get back". I sure as hell didn't sympathize for anyone in that picture, except maybe Michael Corleone's wife. I didn't even bother with the sequel. I know when to stop hitting my head against the immovable brick wall.

I think a better movie with characters "you can't root for" would be something like Lolita, or A Clockwork Orange. Ya know what, I'm not sure I'd root for anyone in Dr. Strangelove Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb, either.

Then there's something like The Boy In The Striped Pajamas, where nearly all the adult characters are Nazis. I'd kinda like to see Downfall, the movie about Hitler's last days (ya know, the one where all the Youtube parodies came from).

As for characters who "aren't good or bad", there's movies like Paper Moon and Cool Hand Luke. Actually, I don't remember much about Paper Moon, except that Ryan O'Neal plays a con man during the Depression. I might be inclined to watch again, though, if it were to pop up on one of the premium channels.

Quite simply there have always been characters in movies that you are not supposed to sympathise with or root for. And I don't see why that should be considered a negative. Some of the most iconic characters in film history are often the nastiest.

Hate to sound negative, but it almost sounds like you have a very locked-in view of how you think characters should behave, that people who do bad things in movies should somehow redeem themselves before the end of the movie.

It's like you have invested in the character and you expect a happy ending or a redemption for them, and when you don't get it you feel somehow cheated.

[TheLoony]

I've never seen Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Er, living under a rock much?

Sorry, just started reading this thread wowed by that statement.

[TheLoony]

Howard The Duck. Nuff said.

Thanks. You just started a new PE thread.

[TheLoony]

[QUOTE=bill g;821575The Gods Must Be Crazy[/QUOTE]

You should check out the documentary Animals Are Beautiful People. It's the prequel to that and amazing and even though BBC has done the Planet Earth Series, which is crazy as hell, also other networks etc. but well worth watching. Drunken elephants. What more can I say?

[nosebone]

I guess that's where my issue is: I fail to understand why I'm supposed to want to watch a movie where the main characters are all meant to be "pretty pathetic. Like I said, it's the same thing with mob movies, for me. OK, so Sonny Corleone is an evil rat bastard son of a bitch who murders people. So why am I supposed to give a shit about his "journey"?!

Because they're fascinating film subjects and brilliant film making.

I've never met anyone who didn't appreciate The Godfather...., until now.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

The Onion reviews 'Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again'

That was one of the best fucking film reviews I have ever seen. Remniscent of Harlan Ellison at his curmudgeonly best.

[Buddhabreath]

Er, living under a rock much?

Sorry, just started reading this thread wowed by that statement.

Maybe JKL is smart enough to avoid the POS that is Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Who the fuck needs it? I saw at in th university theater when I was going to school and I still regret it. There's enough pain and shit in the world without it.

[DocProgger]

1-- The movie starts with Vito Corleone slaughtering a horse belonging to a movie executive, simply because said executive refused to hire Corleone's jackass friend. And it went downhill from there, as far as I was concerned. All I took away from that movie was "Well, that's three hours of my life I'll never get back". I sure as hell didn't sympathize for anyone in that picture, except maybe Michael Corleone's wife. I didn't even bother with the sequel. I know when to stop hitting my head against the immovable brick wall.

2--I think a better movie with characters "you can't root for" would be something like Lolita, or A Clockwork Orange. Ya know what, I'm not sure I'd root for anyone in Dr. Strangelove Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb, either.

1--Well, no, the movie started with one of the most iconic scenes in movie history, Vito Corleone's daughter's wedding, and his hearing of requests for "favors" to be done. The horse's head scene was later in the film. And I don't know if you were aware of this, but The Godfather, while "fictional", is based on Puzo's book and is a very real life tale of the Mafia based on the real 5 families that ruled the NY mob in the 40s, 50s etc. In other words, while fictional, some of the events aren't far off from reality. The Horses's Head scene was based on the reported real life Frank Sinatra situation in getting the role in From Here to Eternity, ie he was the "jackass friend" of the Don as you so eloquently put it. The horse's head thing was fictional, but the point was that Sinatra supposedly used his connections to strong arm the studio to get that role.

So sympathize was probably not the right word, and the movie is not trying to justify the Corleone families actions or make you "root for them", but its a subject matter that is very real, is well done, and most people interested in at least a little bit of "history" and real life or at least a fascinating story would be interested in. You are certainly free to like and not like what you want, but I find some of your comments about what you want to see in movies a bit simplistic, and....

2--....illogical. So you are ok with "rooting" for an old man lusting after and bedding down a 15 year old (Lolita), and you're ok "rooting" for the leader of a gang of thug criminals who are rapists and murderers who kill and rape just for the thrill of it (Clockwork Orange), but you are abhorred by the idea of a gang of criminals who steal and murder as part of the "family business". I'm as big a Kubrick fan as any, and I like those movies a lot, but I fail to follow your logic or see the distinction. The bottom line of all those movies (Godfather, Lolita, Clockwork) is that they are extremely well done films that tell a fascinating story, all with suspect and even reprehensible characters. And as for Strangelove, one of my fav movies of all time, you're not really supposed to "root for" either the US or Russia--that is the point--nuclear war is a failure and a losing proposition for BOTH sides. So I am mystified by your attempts to draw these lines in the sand and look only for movies where you can "root for" one side or another. Like I said, that is kind of a comic book mentality, but maybe that is why these comic book movie remakes are so popular now. Good guys vs bad guys is simple and not complex, and of course, bears little resemblance to reality in most cases. You sure are missing out on a whole lot of great iconic films.

[DocProgger]

Because they're fascinating film subjects and brilliant film making.

I've never met anyone who didn't appreciate The Godfather...., until now.

So much so that he didn't even want to see probably the best sequel ever made, Godfather II

[gojikranz]

I've always found it interesting how some can't separate a movies content from a movies message *cough* the purge *cough* but the godfather has always been one where I feel like a lot of people don't get it. seems a lot of people kind of idolize them or do think of them as the "heroes" and where t-shirts with vito on it etc. I love the godfather but most of the characters are fairly unredeemable and not something to look up to(and seems most on here agree with that). though there are limits I personally found spring breakers too much and left the theater fairly angry yet it got generally favorable reviews so we bring a lot of ourselves to and movie.

after we watch a movie my wife will often say she didn't like a movie cause she hated a character and I will be like well you weren't supposed to like them but to no avail. guess different ways of watching movies or different things that you want when you go to the movies.