Is Genesis "Selling England by the Pound" the most perfect Prog album ever?

[Rarebird]

My problem is that "More Fool Me" sounds like an attempt at some singer-songwriter dreck. House on poop corner.

I like good singer-songwriter stuff, but there is defenitly a lot I think is better than More fool me.

[smcfee]

Had Epping Forest and More Fool Me been left out of the album, I'd consider it nearly flawless.

Yup.

[moecurlythanu]

I never understood the deal with Ordeal! It's perfect where it is and provides a great instrumental breath of fresh air (without needless complications) after the moody, wordy and very funny Epping Forest.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but...I...<wipes sweat from brow>...agree...with...Trane.

One of the best instrumentals in the Genesis catalog.

[rich]

I still think "More Fool Me" is terrible. I don't mean just bad - I mean cringe-inducing.

I've been a fan since 74/75, seen every tour since Trick and in the small group of older fans who like evry LP, each one has great moments at least to me. The only tune that truly makes me cringe is I Can't Dance.

[rich]

Had Epping Forest and More Fool Me been left out of the album, I'd consider it nearly flawless. Well, I consider it nearly flawless even with both songs in.

Well, we are obviously all fans here so I always find it ironic how something I might like or love is loathsome to others. We all hear things different. I love both tracks. I guess at the time I just thought it was so cool that the drummer was such a good singer and some of the tunes on that LP in particular at times sound like duets. As far as Epping, I love the English word play and the Monty Python reference in another post. Thought it was great live as well.

[Rajaz]

Prog perfection? As they say, it is very subjective when comparing for example art, literature, film or music in this case. Prog or Art rock music has to have essentially a few elements (there could be more) such as complex instrumentation, elaborate and storytelling lyrics and a touch of folklore and fantasy.

In the case of selling England, it has all that but there are other "classic prog" albums that have it too in their own way and merits. I'm not going to list album names but each of the prog giants have their own hallmark album that could be considered a masterpiece and close to perfection. In my experience, those bands would be from the classic era bands through the neo prog bands: Yes, ELP, Gentle Giant, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, PFM, Mike Oldfield, Marillion, IQ and of course, Rush.

IMHO, Foxtrot was the preamble to Selling England when Genesis started their rise to prog superstardom and never stopped.

[ronmac]

Off the top of my head, I can only think of three prog albums that I consider perfect: "Wish You Were Here," "Leftoverture," and "Crime of the Century." I realize that the Kansas and Supertramp albums are not 100% prog. But they are perfect IMNSHO.

[mozo-pg]

Off the top of my head, I can only think of three prog albums that I consider perfect: "Wish You Were Here," "Leftoverture," and "Crime of the Century." I realize that the Kansas and Supertramp albums are not 100% prog. But they are perfect IMNSHO.

I would add, ELO's masterpiece, Eldorado. Not pure prog either but there are certainly elements.

[Drake]

More Fool Me
I Know What I Like
After the Ordeal

Still an amazing album.

[Digital_Man]

More Fool Me
I Know What I Like
After the Ordeal

Still an amazing album.

And none of those are what I would even consider the worst track on the album.

As for the perfect prog album there is no such thing. KC's debut (I hate abbreviating that) is about equal to SEBTP imo. However, a few come closer than those two imo and those are CTTE, TAAB and WYWH.

[Tangram]

An excellent album but it's not even the best Genesis album from the PG era. I would consider that to be Foxtrot

[Trane]

As for the perfect prog album there is no such thing. KC's debut (I hate abbreviating that) is about equal to SEBTP imo.

I saw someone on PA that abbreviated it to ITCHYCOCK after we spoke of the "Ultimate Cunt" in that Poseidon thread.
I guess the itchiness came from the irritation of the UC.

However, a few come closer than those two imo and those are CTTE, TAAB and WYWH.

To me, given that G&P (Love to Love You), 5th Season (Dixie), SEBTP (MFM), WYWH (Cigar), Rising (Close Your Eyes) all have a weaker track, I would nominate Circus' Movin' On, Caravanserai, 12 Dreams and COTC (Dreamer's chorus is slightly cringe-y, but what a bass line) on par with TAAB with the perfect album.
If it wasn't for Sleepwalkers' Cha-Cha-Cha bits, Godbluff would be right up there too.

[yesstiles]

I would add, ELO's masterpiece, Eldorado. Not pure prog either but there are certainly elements.

Good album, but that “painted lady” song is a blight on it. Always skip that one.

[mozo-pg]

Good album, but that “painted lady” song is a blight on it. Always skip that one.

Love Painted Lady. I'd actually rank Eldorado in my top 20 albums of all time.

[veteranof1000psychicwars]

If l had to pick a nearly perfect Genesis album it would be Trick Of The Tail. Followed by Duke, then Foxtrot, then Wind And Wuthering. I would put Selling England at #5.
But that's just me.

As far as other "nearly perfect" prog albums off the top of my head, l would say "De Republica" by Deus Ex Machina, "Lies To Live By" by The Spirit Of Christmas, echolyn's "Suffocating The Bloom, and Nektar's "Remember The Future."
I am sure there are others.

[Kcrimso]

An excellent album but it's not even the best Genesis album from the PG era. I would consider that to be Foxtrot

I agree. Foxtrot is their real masterpiece. (My review: https://pienemmatpurot.com/review-genesis-foxtrot-1972/)

[Splicer]

I agree. Foxtrot is their real masterpiece. (My review: https://pienemmatpurot.com/review-genesis-foxtrot-1972/)

No skipped songs on Foxtrot. Although I will say it's marred by the music being in the wrong key for Gabriel. There are a couple of times he's shrieking on that album.

[Conti]

Foxtrot is amazing indeed, but I never really cared for Get Them Out By Friday. I still prefer Selling England and The Lamb over Foxtrot.

[Trane]

Foxtrot is amazing indeed, but I never really cared for Get Them Out By Friday. I still prefer Selling England and The Lamb over Foxtrot.

I'll take Trick over any of those mentionned; no skipable weaker track: Dusk, Harlequin, Time Table, MFM and most of Lamb's D-side. (no YOSW or FYFM either)

[Conti]

^Trick is amazing, top notch stuff. I would take it over Foxtrot too.

[Tangram]

^Trick is amazing, top notch stuff. I would take it over Foxtrot too.

Surprised over the Trick praises. Thought I was alone in thinking Genesis' all era's best album is A Trick of the Tail

[veteranof1000psychicwars]

Surprised over the Trick praises. Thought I was alone in thinking Genesis' all era's best album is A Trick of the Tail

Nope. That album is almost flawless. Nowadays Ripples goes on a bit long for me but that is a *very* minor quibble.

[Splicer]

What I like about Trick more than anything else is the furious fusion drumming that Collins brings to their sound.

[JKL2000]

I'll take Trick over any of those mentionned; no skipable weaker track: Dusk, Harlequin, Time Table, MFM and most of Lamb's D-side. (no YOSW or FYFM either)

Trick seems like an ideal album to indoctrinate someone into prog. Even the album sleeve.

[veteranof1000psychicwars]

Trick seems like an ideal album to indoctrinate someone into prog. Even the album sleeve.

I completely agree.

Also legend has it that Trick was one of Princess Diana's favorite albums. Don't remember where l read that.

Looks like we Tricksters have hijacked the thread ☺