Is Genesis "Selling England by the Pound" the most perfect Prog album ever?

[Kcrimso]

Nude is quite mediocre. In fact I prefer poppier Stationary Traveller which is really fun album to listen. Cheesy but fun!

[Jose1106]

That's the main issus with SEBTP. Epping and More fool me. The rest is magnificent...
In any case it's a top album from a top band, close to A Trick of the tail or Duke or Foxtrot.

[lovecraft]

With Epping there is certainly too much crammed in but also, the chorus seems a bit plodding after the wonderfully nimble, ducking and diving verses.

MFM is just a very weak song but easily lopped off, like an offending growth.

[Halmyre]

All the albums from Nursery Crime to Wind and Wuthering are as near as damn it perfect. Selling England my favourite by a fag paper.

No love for Trespass?

[Trane]

MFM is just a very weak song but easily lopped off, like an offending growth.

More like a cancerous cyst.
If not removed it can lead to amputation and even death.

[ronmac]

I prefer Animals, though I could perhaps do without Pigs on a wing.

Personally, I prefer Meddle. But neither that nor Animals are perfect, IMO. I don't even think DSotM is perfect.

[Kcrimso]

Five perfect prog albums for me:

Mike Oldfield: Ommadawn
Yes: Close To The Edge
King Crimson: Larks' Tongues In Aspic
Henry Cow: Unrest
Robert Wyatt: Rock Bottom

[NogbadTheBad]

Five perfect prog albums for me:

Mike Oldfield: Ommadawn
Yes: Close To The Edge
King Crimson: Larks' Tongues In Aspic
Henry Cow: Unrest
Robert Wyatt: Rock Bottom

Agree of the Oldfield & KC, would replace Unrest with Western Culture, and add a UZ

Mike Oldfield: Ommadawn
King Crimson: Larks' Tongues In Aspic
Henry Cow: Western Culture
Univers Zero: Ceux De Dehors

[Batchman]

never understood the hoopla about Nude, but then again ditto for Snow Goose. not gifted enough instrumentalists to go full-instrumental, IMHO.

Count me in as someone who never really cared for Camel either. I was bored by The Snow Goose when it came out, but years later I found it much more appealing when heard as individual tracks rather than taking in the whole thing at once. Thinking this album was a one-off, I gave Moonmadness a listen (in a used CD store) and that didn't grab me either. The only Camel that I ever liked is that live "God of Light Revisited" track on the Greasy Truckers LP.

[yesstiles]

Is there such a thing as the most perfect prog album?

I would nominate Live- Traumstadt by Hoelderlin.

Yes Live Traumstsdt is a monster record. Love it!!
And the remastered set with the added half hour of music is a wonderful treat! Too bad the mastering on that sucks compared to the original release.

[Batchman]

Five perfect prog albums for me:

Mike Oldfield: Ommadawn
Yes: Close To The Edge
King Crimson: Larks' Tongues In Aspic
Henry Cow: Unrest
Robert Wyatt: Rock Bottom

I was just about to post my list and it's very similar to yours, particularly #s 2, 3 and 5. I agree that Unrest is HC's finest but it does take a while to get into; I would recommend Leg End for anyone who wishes to discover them.

Curious as to why you rate Ommadawn higher than TB or HR, btw. (All good IMHO - but avoid TB2 like the plague.)

And I'd probably add DSoTM.

[Kcrimso]

Curious as to why you rate Ommadawn higher than TB or HR, btw. (All good IMHO - but avoid TB2 like the plague.)

The end section of the Ommadawn is the most emotionally charged music I have ever heard.

(BTW. I really love TB2)

[Kcrimso]

Agree of the Oldfield & KC, would replace Unrest with Western Culture, and add a UZ

Mike Oldfield: Ommadawn
King Crimson: Larks' Tongues In Aspic
Henry Cow: Western Culture
Univers Zero: Ceux De Dehors

Great choices!

[mkeneally]

I must be a total sap, because “More Fool Me” can totally make me cry sometimes. I think it’s fucking beautiful, and absolutely one of Phil’s best vocals.

People who hate it: what’s really wrong with it? I see a lot of hatred for it but not much to back up the hatred.

I’m totally an “Epping” guy too, but no surprise there, as it’s probably the most Zappaesque Genesis tune (Phil and Chester doing the double-drum lick from “Roxy & Elsewhere” on Seconds Out doesn’t really count).

[Rarebird]

Yes Live Traumstsdt is a monster record. Love it!!
And the remastered set with the added half hour of music is a wonderful treat! Too bad the mastering on that sucks compared to the original release.

It was my first Hoelderlin album and I loved it. I can't think of any duds on the album and it's even hard to choose a favorite song. Perhaps I would go for Die Stadt, because of the large role for the viola.

[Trane]

I must be a total sap, because “More Fool Me” can totally make me cry sometimes. I think it’s fucking beautiful, and absolutely one of Phil’s best vocals.

People who hate it: what’s really wrong with it? I see a lot of hatred for it but not much to back up the hatred.

Mainly, it doesn't belong there (IMHO), completely out of the rest of the album's frame and doesn't fit the sonic world installed with the rest of the tracks.
It's a bit of a punch in the face. Luckily, it was at the end of side-A, so it could be anticipated and easily skipped - which I did almost every time (unless not paying attention enough).
Then again, I tend to call MFM a "song", whereas, I'd tend the other compositions on the album "tracks"


As such, it's definitely not that bad a "song" (YOSW on W&W is much worse, IMHO)....
FTM, it's probably an OK PC song, but that would be better placed on one of his solo albums.

[Kcrimso]

I must be a total sap, because “More Fool Me” can totally make me cry sometimes. I think it’s fucking beautiful, and absolutely one of Phil’s best vocals.

People who hate it: what’s really wrong with it? I see a lot of hatred for it but not much to back up the hatred.

I don't hate it. I just don't think that it does anything particularly well. Also it does not seem to fit well with other songs on the album that I feel is little bit overlong anyway.

[Splicer]

I must be a total sap, because “More Fool Me” can totally make me cry sometimes. I think it’s fucking beautiful, and absolutely one of Phil’s best vocals.

People who hate it: what’s really wrong with it? I see a lot of hatred for it but not much to back up the hatred.

For me, the song just doesn't begin anywhere or go anywhere. It's like some attempt at 70s singer-songwriter dreck - just not a particularly good one. It's boring. When it comes to short Genesis songs of the era, give me "For Absent Friends" - that's a good one that serves as a nice interlude.

[Drake]

Wish You Were Here.

Have a Cigar, for example, takes away some of the perfectness …

[mozo-pg]

Inspired by recent discussions on Prog, last night I sat down to listen to "Selling England..." After listening to the entire LP, beginning-to-end, I found myself marvelling at this masterpiece. I wasn't able to find a single weak moment on it (okay, maybe Phil Collins's singing at the end of side one). Everything sounded perfect, perfectly composed, perfectly played, with lot of conviction and passion. A rare bird indeed.

Not only that, but the overall sound of the LP is so magnificent, so sweet, with stupendous bass and crushing drums. I don't care much for Steve Wilson's remaster -- sounds bleached when compared side by side to the original LP.

I struggle to recall a Prog album in my meagre collection that would be as perfect as this one. Curious to hear what others have to offer as the most perfect Prog album (there will no doubt be a huge disagreement with my choice).

I must be a total sap, because “More Fool Me” can totally make me cry sometimes. I think it’s fucking beautiful, and absolutely one of Phil’s best vocals.


People who hate it: what’s really wrong with it? I see a lot of hatred for it but not much to back up the hatred.

I’m totally an “Epping” guy too, but no surprise there, as it’s probably the most Zappaesque Genesis tune (Phil and Chester doing the double-drum lick from “Roxy & Elsewhere” on Seconds Out doesn’t really count).

I'm totally with you Mike.

[PROGMONSTER]

Not a bad track but doesn’t excite me much lol

[yesstiles]

Have a Cigar, for example, takes away some of the perfectness …

Yep, I always skip that dud.

[Kcrimso]

"Have A Cigar" is excellent.

[lovecraft]

Have a Cigar is great I think. Roy Harper manages to sound even more cynical and world weary than Waters, which is no mean feat, and Gilmour is in sparkling form as usual.

[Trane]

Have a Cigar, for example, takes away some of the perfectness …

Yep, I always skip that dud.

The weaker track (not by much) on WYWH withnthe title track, but both are excellent, but neither really fits musically (their lyrics are right up the alley, though) the' shine On and MLachine soundscape, IMHO

Have a Cigar is great I think. Roy Harper manages to sound even more cynical and world weary than Waters, which is no mean feat, and Gilmour is in sparkling form as usual.

mmmhhh!!!... I think I'd have prefered ol'Rog to sing his own song and slow its pace down, to fit the sad mood of the concept album and change the anger tone from loud to "broodier". I'm quite glad they left Grapelli's violin out, though