Re Foxtrot, If the opening ethereal majestic mellotron chords of Watcher in the Skies combined with the 24 minute greatest progressive rock epic in the history of recorded music--in particular the menacing terror of Apocalypse in 9/8 of Suppers Ready--didn't grab you by the balls and split your cranium in half when you heard it the first time, I don't know if there is any hope. And that is before I even mention the sublime Can Utility....
"Watcher of the Skies"Originally Posted by feldman
It's a very creative rhythm section working out a morse code cryptic message.
"Time Table" is written in a traditional Baroque melodic structure that reflects upon the mood of Medieval culture.
"Get em out by Friday" was written about the looming threat of over population and in a very British humor, the solution suggests
putting a restriction on human height so the ceilings of apartments could be lowered from the traditional 8 feet down to 4 feet allowing twice as many people to occupy a building. Musically it is a very dense and complex composition that actually reflects the complexity of such a situation.
"Can-Utility and the Coastliners" is the forgotten song on the album that really set the tone for much of the signature heavy driving rhythm that would become a staple for the band in years to come. It is also a very interesting song lyrically.
"Horizons" is a beautiful guitar instrumental by Steve Hackett that fits nicely on the album and gives the listener the impression
that the members of the band are legitimate musicians who could perform for any kind of sophisticated classical audience etc.
"Supper's Ready" was Genesis' epic piece of long form progressive rock that moves through an ever changing plethora of moods and dynamics in a dream like surrealism that only such a band could conjure up. This is the song that got John Lennon most interested in their work.
OK thanks, not sure how I did not clue in to all those details, everything you described sounds very interesting. I'd say part of the problem is that I have a very anemic Foxtrot pressing, which robs the music of its balls. It all sounds pale and wimpy on my pressing, unlike "Selling England..." which sounds majestic.
Hmmm, time to do some crate digging in the hopes of nailing a Foxtrot hot stamper!
n.p.:
(my favorite right now … shhh!)
The Lamb cd#2 from Genesis Archive 1967-75: April 24, 1975.
Pura Vida!.
There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind. ∞
Duke Ellington.
Agree: love Banco and PFM!.
Pura Vida!.
There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind. ∞
Duke Ellington.
And that´s one reason of many !!.I agree with you for what it's worth. I'm also quite certain you would have found many others to agree with you on other prog sites. But, hey, this is PE, the place where they can actually give you a list of 50 RIO albums that are so much better than SEBTP
I´m in a great place! :-)
Pura Vida!.
There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind. ∞
Duke Ellington.
Lyrically a Sci-Fi "What if?" based on a day in Italy on tour in which the town appeared to be deserted when looking out their hotel window.
"More a treatise on Power and the passage of time, and what is really left behind when we're gone.
"A satirical jab at the policies of the local British Councils of the time and their attempts to socially engineer their way out of housing/land use issues. Fairly parochial subject matter of the time that may be lost on foreigners.
Based on one of the legends surrounding Viking King Canute (Knut) in the Danelaw. Another treatise on power, ego, and human limitation.
I am genuinely surprised that no King Crimson records have been spun into this discussion. Since opinion is the name of the game here, mine is that every Genesis album from Trick Of The Tale back to Trespass ranks as top of the line progressive gourmet. And while I'm comfortable in my belief that there is no "perfect" progressive album, I do have a sense that the "definition" for progressive album lies in The Court Of The Crimson King.
Any "genesis" moment of progressive rock had to have happened somewhere between "Revolver and Sgt. Pepper"
All of the later progressive rock iconic groups were hugely inspired by those two particular Beatles albums.
We can argue that many of them surpassed them on various levels as often students extend beyond the glory of their teachers, but there is no
progressive rock as we know it without the giant step taken by those folks from Liverpool.
Skully -- If are you saying that Revolver and Sgt Pepper are progressive rock albums, I would argue that those records are generally not part of the discussion of the genre. Certainly they provided some of the seeds, but those albums were themselves spawned from classical music, electronic avant garde, Indian music, and Chuck Berry records.
Yep. And we can't pretend that Progressive Rock was the only genre influenced by the Beatles. They all were. Part of the reason the Beatles were so iconic.
I would call Revolver, Sgt Pepper, Abbey Road "proto-progressive", and I agree they were certainly very influential on all of progressive rock in many ways, almost incalculably. Hard to pick just one album as THE starting point, but I agree that In Court of the Crimson King is the most logical "genesis" point of what most would now call progressive rock. But I am sure they are some Moody Blues, Pink Floyd and maybe even Soft Machine fans that might quibble.
Last edited by DocProgger; 08-30-2018 at 02:02 AM.
It is not even the best Genesis album...
My progressive music site: https://pienemmatpurot.com/ Reviews in English: https://pienemmatpurot.com/in-english/
^^^^ Ditto. I haven't played it for ages but perhaps I will tonight; Moonlit Knight, Firth Of Fifth, More Fool Me & The Cinema Show, the other tracks I'll skip and make it far less than perfect for me.
Sgt Pepper and Abbey Road are definitely progressive rock albums.
Epping Forest is brilliant...and then pretty bad....and then cringeworthy....and then a bit dull....and then brilliant again....
No
“Pleasure and pain can be experienced simultaneously,” she said, gently massaging my back as we listened to her Coldplay CD.
Are you Thick As A Brick ??
The best, certainly not, not within a mile (it('s not even Genesis' best album, though it comes close), but it's definitely in my top 20/30/40/60 (somewhere in there)
As for the production, IMHO, none of the early Genesis albums were properly recorded and I don't know how you could make out the bass in SEBTP, because it was buried in the mix of the vinyl and first.second generation CD that I bought (Canadian issues)
BTW, FYI: SEBTP was my third album bought with my own money after COTC and DSOTM... and afterwards came within weeks ITCOTCK, ITLOG&P, WYWH. I didn't really like SEBTP at first (I WTF'd about it, partly because I thought it wasn't well recorded >> look at what I bought in terms of sonic productions up 'til then, though), but I've grown very fond of and if there is two albums I define as "quintessentially British", it's that one and TAAB
if Twilight Alehouse had replaced More Fool Me, it would've been a serious contender for top 3
I'm not sure I own even one SW remix (outside those 40th anniv Crimson thingies, but SW remix is not the reason for buying them), but for early Genesis albums, I think it would be most appropriate that he gives it a try... Hell, I might even buy them.
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
I would go with Anglagard's Hybris..
Close to the Edge is right up there also along with Pain of Salvation's The Perfect Element..
Enjoy the moment... It's the only way to fly!
Actually I think Harold Demure "from Arts & Literature" is the best character in Genesis songs, along with Bob The Knob "on the job" and Mick The Prick "fresh out of nick"
Over the years, the only SEBTP track that I actually listen to and do nothing else is Epping Forest... That's more humour in 12 minutes than in Zappa's entire musical career.
Absolutely.
still a few forgettable thingies in there (like the t/t at the start of the album)... But by compiling the best of the two discs together,, you could have something thaty resemble Genesis' best §though it would still battle out with trick)
Long live PE joieintense.gifI agree with you for what it's worth. I'm also quite certain you would have found many others to agree with you on other prog sites. But, hey, this is PE, the place where they can actually give you a list of 50 RIO albums that are so much better than SEBTP
Actually, what makes the instrumental Ordeal so good (for relatively modest songwriting) is that it comes right after a vocal fest. One needs a rest between two huge tracks
Well, I certainly thought so - but then again, I think COTC, DSOTM, WYXH and ITCOTCK are more or less as well.
It's more than an album about a theme, but it's not a Tommy or Quadrophenia or The Wall "all-out-concept.
I've rated around 7000 albums on Gnosis2000 and I've yet to give a 15 (out of a scale of 15) >> Sonic perfection is for Caravanserai (Santana's fourth album), but it's not a perfect album either.
Last edited by Trane; 08-30-2018 at 09:08 AM.
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
Lmao. Well, that's it, the quest for perfection is over. We can all go home now.
No Sir. It is plain brilliant
In fact I don't get the Epping Forest controversy at all. All opinions respected obviously, but classic Genesis is not just the symphonic majesty of Firth of Fifth, but equally the sarcastic, quirky, grotesque or even silly Englishness of Hogweed or Get 'em out by Friday or Harold the Barrel .And in Epping Forest these two elements reach a perfect balance that makes this song a highlight in Genesis discography: the sublime and the ridiculous are masterfully intertwined from start to finish, so you cannot tell one from the other.
This humorous, specifically English element - which one could easily attribute to Peter Gabriel's presence - is what begins to disappear in post-Gabriel albums, starting with Trick of the Tail. Which musically could be equally good to Selling England By The Pound, but nevertheless is an inferior album to my ears. Or to my heart actually. And from then on it's all downhill.
In my opinion. I add this, so that no one thinks I am expressing some other person's opinion. You never know.
Nope, it's not over, but it's a never-ending illusory quest!!
But feel free to go home, no-one's stopping you.
as I said Epping is probably the best example of Genesis humour, but I do think Robbery, Assault & Battery and All In Mousde's Night are both in that same line. After W&W, this dimension doesn't reappearNo Sir. It is plain brilliant
In fact I don't get the Epping Forest controversy at all. All opinions respected obviously, but classic Genesis is not just the symphonic majesty of Firth of Fifth, but equally the sarcastic, quirky, grotesque or even silly Englishness of Hogweed or Get 'em out by Friday or Harold the Barrel .And in Epping Forest these two elements reach a perfect balance that makes this song a highlight in Genesis discography: the sublime and the ridiculous are masterfully intertwined from start to finish, so you cannot tell one from the other.
This humorous, specifically English element - which one could easily attribute to Peter Gabriel's presence - is what begins to disappear in post-Gabriel albums, starting with Trick of the Tail. Which musically could be equally good to Selling England By The Pound, but nevertheless is an inferior album to my ears. Or to my heart actually. And from then on it's all downhill.
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
^^^ (re 2 posts up)
Epping Forest is funny, and absurd, and I enjoy large chunks of the song. But it goes on too long, unnecessarily. Gabriel needed an edit button and reel it in a bit, many of us feel if you read these comments. Not everything he did was perfect. I know for many here he is the Golden Boy who could do no wrong, and many have trouble admitting that, but that was the case here. Tightened up a bit, would have been a better tune, that's all. Imo.
Last edited by DocProgger; 08-30-2018 at 09:09 AM.
I understand. I don't agree. I wouldn't tighten up anything there.
To me he was the Golden Boy only in the Genesis context. I am not particularly fond of what he did later on, although I respect his early, solo output.
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