The King Crimson gene

[polmico]

^ There's also Karn's Bestial Cluster that has Torn all over it. And, of course, the Torn, Karn, Bozzio album Polytown.

I hadn't heard of the White album. Looks like I've got some investigating to do. [Scratch the investigation. I just ordered it.]

Then there's this, and it's just wonderful:

[Dave (in MA)]

Markus Reuter (one degree of separation from Crim) put out an album Truce this year that he said was inspired by Polytown.

[GuitarGeek]

When the Cloud About Mercury band toured the US, Isham could not make it, so he was replaced by Michael White. Levin was actually a replacement suggested by Bruford to stand in for Mick Karn, who was the bassist Torn originally had in mind, but he was unavailable at the time. Karn was able to make the tour, though. Later on White did a Torn-produced record called Lonely Universe, co-led with drummer Michael Lambert plus Torn and Karn.

Yeah, the Lonely Universe record is pretty good. I recall asking Torn about it on AOL about 20 years ago, and he said he didn't really have good memories of that project. I guess getting that record done was a bit of a struggle.

[Dave (in MA)]

Lonely Universe is mentioned here, along with Cloud... https://www.innerviews.org/inner/torn1.html

A second Lonely Universe album was made, but without Torn and Karn, using a guitarist I don't recognize, a female vocalist, and apparently no bassist.

[notallwhowander]

Here are the next batch of albums. I'm pretty sure I left some things off. I don't have any of the Frippertronic albums nor any League of Crafty Guitarists, but it still feels like I've overlooked something.

I think you really need to include the Eno/Byrne My Life in the Bush of Ghosts & Talking Head's Remain in Light. While they don't conform to your rules, Fripp or Belew appear on them, and they are essential to this period of Crim IMO. There is also the archival live release of The League of Gentlemen, Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx, which has stomping live versions of God Save the King tracks.

[Boceephus]

What about Gordian’s Knot Emergent? Bruford guests & there are many Kcrimsonisms.


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[SunshipVoyager1976]

I saw Bruford/Levin Upper Extremities (BLUE)- with Torn & Chris Botti (in the Isham spot)- twice in Philadelphia in the late 1990's, and they were superb.

[polmico]

I think you really need to include the Eno/Byrne My Life in the Bush of Ghosts & Talking Head's Remain in Light. While they don't conform to your rules, Fripp or Belew appear on them, and they are essential to this period of Crim IMO.

I'll probably circle back around to both of those albums. It's been quite a time since I've listened to Bush of Ghosts.

There is also the archival live release of The League of Gentlemen, Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx, which has stomping live versions of God Save the King tracks.

A stomping live album indeed! If I remember correctly, Fripp plays a bit of "Frame by Frame" (or what would become it) in one of the songs.

What about Gordian’s Knot Emergent? Bruford guests & there are many Kcrimsonisms.

Never heard of this one! I'll check it out.

[polmico]

The 1990s

The Crimson sound moves further and further away from the pastoral '70s--if you squint, you can sometimes still find it--and more to the angular guitar rock predicted by the Larks' era band. Here it goes.

Sunday All Over the World, Kneeling at the Shrine: I actually thought this album had been recorded in the '80s. It definitely feels like a bridge between the '80s Crim and the '90s Crim. DGM or Fripp had announced at one point that some live recordings from the band would be released. I hope that still comes to pass. I love this album.

Sylvian/Fripp, The First Day: I usually reach for one of the two versions of Damage (do you prefer the original Fripp version or the Sylvian version?) when I want to hear these songs. But the studio versions are stunning. This band cooked. Like SAOTW, this is a bridge to Thrak. Am I correct in remembering that Sylvian turned down an offer to join Crimson?

The Robert Fripp String Quintet, The Bridge Between: It's probably been a decade since I've listened to this album. When I bought it 20+ years ago, I assumed it would return to the acoustic, pastoral sound of '70s Crimson that I so love. This was (more or less) pre-Internet, so I had no idea what I was getting. I like it, but my lack of California Guitar Trio albums is probably an indication that I don't love it.

Tony Levin, World Diary: Levin's first solo record is still my favorite from him. The mish mash of styles seems to fit the Crimson ethos. You never quite know what to expect from song to song. The old digi-pack on this one is tenderly worn white around the edges.

Trey Gunn, The Third Star (expanded edition): Another favorite of mine. Gunn put something special together here. There's a magic to this album that I have difficulty understanding or describing. So I won't bother.

Adrian Belew, Op Zop Too Wah: Yes, I'm cheating by bringing Belew back again, but I predicted this would happen. I recall at the time of release that this was discussed as the most Crimson-like of Belew's solo albums. I think it was the first Belew album I bought, so I had no frame of reference. There are some Crimson-like moments here and there; "I Remember How to Forget" was even worked up by Crimson. But The Beatles influence is by far more apparent. Belew's collection Dust has some interesting outtakes and arrangements of these songs. If you like this album as much as I do, it's worth seeking out.

Bozzio, Levin, Stevens, Black Light Syndrome: Well that's an unfortunate cover! The music inside is fine. Nothing that really sticks with me. I must continue to own this for a reason? Ah, there's some nice fuzzy bass from T. Lev. Oh, those acoustic passages are nice. I'm going to turn the cover around, though.

Ten Seconds, s/t: Whoops! I thought Fripp was a primary song-writer on this one. I flipped through the liner notes while listening to it and realized my error. Oh well. It's actually Jeffrey Fayman and Bill Forth. Fripp is all over it, though. Hey, so is Bill Rieflin! Some really solid industrial spacey improvs, good songs, ballsy Fripp solos. I like this album! I'll probably spin it again in the next couple of weeks. I searched around for any other work from this band or at least from Fayman or Forth. There is a soundscapey album with Fayman and Fripp, and Forth has a solo album from about ten years ago (Mastelotto is a guest on it), but that seems to be about. Anyone know anything more about this band?

Ian McDonald, Drivers Eyes: I know nothing about Foreigner outside of their radio hits, and I have no idea how much McDonald was involved in them. This is a good album of AOR-ish rock with some pleasing instrumental passages. Is it McDonald and Giles part two? No, but it's worth a spin every once in a while, and there is a song which features just McDonald and Giles. Wetton turns in a nice guest vocal and Steve Hackett guests on . . . harmonica? Ok. Probably not a lot about this sounds at all like Crimson. Maybe it's best that the Red band didn't continue with McDonald at the helm . . .

Bill Rieflin, Birth of a Giant: Yep. Definitely cheating with this one. I just wanted to listen to it.

Rieflin, Fripp, Gunn, The Repercussions of Angelic Behavior: I decided to avoid all the ProjeKcts in this listening spree. It's too hard for me to separate them from Crimson, but I did bring in this album which is a Crimson ProjeKct in all but name. I like the organ sound Fripp uses on one of the tracks. I wonder why that didn't make its way into other ProjeKcts.

Bruford/Levin Upper Extremities, Blue Nights: Hey! I recognize that leather motorcycle jacket! An incredible live album from a great band. It somehow doesn't ape Cloud about Mercury and avoids being an homage to it and updates the sound on that album and stands as its own thing. It's multi-tasking! I love how Bruford's kit sounded in the late '90s.

Well, that's it for the 1990s. There are certainly things I missed, insights I simply don't have and other windmills that need to be tilted at. Have I learned anything about what makes Crimson Crimson? Probably not, but it's been nice going back through these albums, some of which it has been a long time since visiting.

Up next, a whole bunch of Mastelotto projects, likely another album by Belew, some David Cross and . . . Ian Wallace?

[Mister Triscuits]

Bozzio, Levin, Stevens, Black Light Syndrome: Well that's an unfortunate cover!

I think it's great, just because Levin and Bozzio are like: "We do not know this guy!"

[proggy_jazzer]

This is a great thread, and it's been really enjoyable to be reminded of how far-reaching Fripp's influence has been over the past 50 years. As I listen to some of the excellent examples cited, though, I find myself wondering: Is there a difference between the "King Crimson" gene and the "Guitar Craft" gene? There are certain things that just seem to have Crimson '69-'74 DNA, and then there are things that just scream "Guitar Craft" to my ears. Even on the album Discipline itself, I can hear 'The Sheltering Sky' as coming from the earlier KC space, while the title track is almost pure GC. And there are other tracks on the album that are more hybrid, such as 'Indiscipline' and 'Thela Hun Gingeet'. Going to the later offshoots, I hear much of Guitar Craft in the music of Trey Gunn - as one would expect. Of course, the California Guitar Trio has GC as a prime ingredient, but never sounds like KC per se. Also, things that remind us of the versions of KC that happened after the 80's will have their own flavor, as Crimson evolved a distinctive sound during that era as well.

Just my opinion and 2¢! Like I said, I'm enjoying this and it's prompting me to listen both to things I haven't heard previously and things in my own collection with new ears.

[notallwhowander]

Never heard of this one! I'll check it out.

Both Gordian Knot albums are worthy of consideration. While Emergent has some Bruford on it, the self-titled debut has some Trey Gunn.

[notallwhowander]

For the 90's, don't forget the Robert Fripp String Quintet's The Bridge Between. It is Robert, and Trey, and the California Guitar Trio. There are some great versions of Guitar Craft repertoire, with definite Crimson genetics. It should be in the mix of THRAK era records.

That being said, those early California Guitar Trio are worth considering. I believe Invitation has Trey on some tracks. Also, their CGT+2 album has Pat & Tony as a rhythm section, though it more properly belongs in the KC2K era.

[MudShark22]

There is one CGT with just TL which was released post Thrak pre TCoL.

Monday Night in SF.

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[Crystal Plumage]

I think this little ditty has the Crimson gene. It has Wetton and Bruford ...



And this one as well with Trey Gunn:


There's numerous bands unrelated to Crim who have some sort of Crimson gene. One of the best out there (IMO) is still Happy Family:

[Mister Triscuits]

I think this little ditty has the Crimson gene. It has Wetton and Bruford ...

Indeed, Wetton had hoped to place the song on Crimson's next album after Red, but Fripp broke up the band before he could do anything with it. This demo is from '76.

[polmico]

As I listen to some of the excellent examples cited, though, I find myself wondering: Is there a difference between the "King Crimson" gene and the "Guitar Craft" gene?

I think of it this way: the Crimson sound got a significant addition in 1981.

Or perhaps an expansion on a concept that was only briefly explored earlier (the knottier sections of "Larks' Pt. 1," "Fracture").

[polmico]

Indeed, Wetton had hoped to place the song on Crimson's next album after Red, but Fripp broke up the band before he could do anything with it. This demo is from '76.

Never heard that before. Looks like it's on a compilation called Monkey Business. Is it worth owning?

[Mister Triscuits]

Never heard that before. Looks like it's on a compilation called Monkey Business. Is it worth owning?

Depends on your tolerance for rough, lo-fi demos. It's interesting as a curiosity, and includes a fair number of Crimson-related tracks, including a '90s solo Wetton remake of "Doctor Diamond."

[jkelman]

Like many of you, I have a little more free time on my hands nowadays and that freedom tends to dictate my listening habits. I decided to take a break from "complete band runs" (listen to all the studio albums from an artist) and focus on my favorite band, King Crimson. But not focus by listening necessarily to King Crimson itself.

The rules: Any album by a musician who had been or, at the time, was currently in King Crimson. The musician must be a key writer or performer on that album. The album can be a solo affair under that musician's name or band project. Only one album under that performer's name or group name (so Bruford will show up on this list multiple times with multiple groups). There must be something that strikes me as Crimson-esque about the music or performance.

An interesting thread...(and sorry I've been MIA for so long, but that's another story). Also timely for me, as I'm getting close to being able to announce a project I've begun work on that has kept me from contributing to AAJ the last few months. I can't reveal yet, but hope to soon (maybe by end of June). What I will say? Crimson/Crimson-related fans may find it worth their attention...

Sorry to be enigmatic, but I can't divulge yet...but soon, very soon...and having come back to PE for the first time in months and finding this thread? Serendipity!

[AncientChord]

This one has many KC genes. One of my favorite non-crimsons. RIP Keith Tippett:

[polmico]

I can't reveal yet, but hope to soon (maybe by end of June). What I will say? Crimson/Crimson-related fans may find it worth their attention...

Sorry to be enigmatic, but I can't divulge yet...but soon, very soon...and having come back to PE for the first time in months and finding this thread? Serendipity!

Hmmm. The new Jakszyk album? Perhaps Cosmic FuKc? Ah, whatever it is, I'll be happy to read your review before purchasing it.

This one has many KC genes. One of my favorite non-crimsons. RIP Keith Tippett:

Oh, this looks long OOP. Certainly something that I'd be interested in adding to my collection, though.

I'm working my way through my '00s playlist right now. Currently enjoying Tuner's Pole, an album that I'm startling unfamiliar with (despite having owned it for years). I'll post back when I've finished through a few more albums.

[jkelman]

Hmmm. The new Jakszyk album? Perhaps Cosmic FuKc? Ah, whatever it is, I'll be happy to read your review before purchasing it.

To be more enigmatic: while I'll likely be covering both of those titles, that isn't the project. It's something bigger and far more expansive in its scope and purview....

Just call me Mister Mistery...

[The Crimson King]

To be more enigmatic: while I'll likely be covering both of those titles, that isn't the project. It's something bigger and far more expansive in its scope and purview....

Just call me Mister Mistery...

"Mister Mister"(y)... Hmmm... Perhaps a Pat Mastelotto retrospective!

[jkelman]

"Mister Mister"(y)... Hmmm... Perhaps a Pat Mastelotto retrospective!

Nope. Sorry!

We could do 20 questions but since I cannot announce yet, it wouldn't matter...
Cheers!
J