FEATURED CD : UK : Danger Money

**Mister Triscuits** · 12-06-2021

Originally Posted by Rajaz

BTW, What does the cover mean?

I always took it to be a reference to Pontius Pilate washing his hands; in conjunction with the lyrics to the title track it would seem to be the (nicely dressed James Bond-type) mercenary washing his hands of the blood that is on them.

**SunRunner2** · 12-06-2021

Originally Posted by Rajaz

I love this album; I had almost lost all expectations after the departures of Bruford and Holdsworth but was pleasantly surprised on how good it was!

Never could not understand why no remastered or special edition had not yet been released until the UK Ultimate Collectors edition in 2016. But sadly with no bonus tracks.

My favorites on the album are: "The Only thing she needs" and "Carrying no cross" that are show stopper epic songs, Terry Bozzio's drumming is stellar. Rendezvous 6:02 is a very nice interlude and also showcases John Wetton's amazing vocal performance.

It is interesting to note that the "In Concert" bootleg version that was circulating around for some time, had the original quartet performing several songs for Danger Money live before its official release. And honestly, I prefer the studio versions.

BTW, What does the cover mean?

It represents "washing your hands of the situation", as in the old adage. In this case, the situation of money from dangerous deeds or events. My take on it.

**Dave (in MA)** · 12-06-2021

Originally Posted by Rajaz

BTW, What does the cover mean?

I suppose it's meant to correspond to the lyrics of the title track and CPB, where the protagonist is some sort of spy or undercover assassin earning his "danger money" while living an extravagant lifestyle.

edit: I remember being wowed when hearing a variation of a verse from Caesars' Palace Blues when I got my hands on Crimso's Great Deceiver box and was listening to one of its versions of Starless.

**Rajaz** · 12-06-2021

Originally Posted by Dave (in MA)

I suppose it's meant to correspond to the lyrics of the title track and CPB, where the protagonist is some sort of spy or undercover assassin earning his "danger money" while living an extravagant lifestyle.

Oh my, that is a very neat interpretation of a spy novel, it can relate to the lyrics about weapons like a luger, magnum and being a soldier of fortune :-)

**Paulrus** · 12-06-2021

Doesn't suck. Not as good as the first. IMO.

**Steve983** · 12-06-2021

The cover obviously means that when someone is paid 'danger money' the payee is washing their hands of responsibility.

PS. It did take on new relevance in March last year lol!

**dropforge** · 12-06-2021

I love Danger Money. I concur "Carrying No Cross" is the highlight of the album, a "short epic" that doesn't take up an album side (nor does it have to) but has all the intensity and color of something more lauded, like "Awaken."

Bozzio was the best replacement they could have found, a guy with mega-chops who switches between power and finesse with ease.

As for the criticism that the lack of a lead guitarist makes a keyboardist go nuts (or something to that effect), it confirms that some have yet to break free of the "guitar must always lead" mind set. For me, ELP shattered that antiquated convention long, long ago.

**mozo-pg** · 12-06-2021

Well said. I like Danger Money quite a bit. No need for comparisons.

**EBES** · 12-06-2021

For whatever reason I didn't hear either of the UK albums until maybe three years ago, despite being a huge prog fan since the mid 90s. Just one of those oversights. I tried out as the singer for a prog band and one of the songs I had to learn was Dead of Night, and I thought, hm... this is quite good. Didn't get the gig but did check out the albums.

I like both albums a fair amount, and, like a lot of people have said in this and the other forum, I find myself more commonly reaching for Danger Money even though I feel intellectually like the self-titled is the more "respectable" album, what with not having any songs named after Vegas Casinos. I do wish I'd heard them when I was young enough to attach a richer set of associations, and to study them more intently -- I always feel like there's something I'm missing in the first album and it's my fault more than the album's fault.

But with Danger Money in particular I also can't shake how much it feels like... I dunno, like the decadent era of the declining prog empire? Simultaneously both a really enjoyable album and also the sound of something running out of gas.

**Mister Triscuits** · 12-07-2021

Originally Posted by EBES

songs named after Vegas Casinos.

I always thought "Caesar's Palace Blues" was quite an interesting song. A couple of lyric lines were recycled from the early versions of "Starless" as it was performed live by the '74 Crimson.

**Mascodagama** · 12-07-2021

Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate

As I recall it Jobson wanted Holdsworth to play the same solos live over and over and wasn't keen on a more improvisational approach to the tunes.
Holdsworth found it too rigid.

Danger Money isn't as interesting as the first, and it lacks another soloist, but never the less its quite good.

Asking Alan Holdsworth to repeat the same solos every night? Super-lame if that's the case.

I don't care for the album at all. They dropped the best parts of the band, and what results feels like an uneasy compromise between musical and commercial ambitions.

Ultimately I'm just not very keen at all on John Wetton's commercial rock songs, whether in this band or others. Tired stuff, mostly.

**Hunchentootz** · 12-07-2021

I like a good bit of this one - but the first is just soooo good. Bozzio is great but doesnt quite do it for me.

**Rajaz** · 12-07-2021

Originally Posted by Hunchentootz

Bozzio is great but doesn't quite do it for me.

It reminds me of when Geoff Downes replaced none other than Rick Wakeman in Yes (1980), and for the band UK it was also a mainstream player like Bozzio that would be replacing a Prog icon like Bill Bruford.
Made many scratch their heads on how he would fit in, specially playing the debut album material. But in both cases, it seems to have worked out fine.
Like they say, the rest is Prog History ;-)

**Mister Triscuits** · 12-07-2021

Originally Posted by Rajaz

It reminds me of when Geoff Downes replaced none other than Rick Wakeman in Yes (1980), and for the band UK it was also a mainstream player like Bozzio that would be replacing a Prog icon like Bill Bruford.

Bozzio a “mainstream player”? On what planet? And don’t forget that he and Jobson had already been bandmates in Frank Zappa’s band, so there was presumably already a rapport there. (And Jobson had already drawn on his Zappa experience on the first U.K. album, with the distinctly Frank-flavored “Presto Vivace.”)

**interbellum** · 12-07-2021

Originally Posted by dropforge

As for the criticism that the lack of a lead guitarist makes a keyboardist go nuts (or something to that effect), it confirms that some have yet to break free of the "guitar must always lead" mind set. For me, ELP shattered that antiquated convention long, long ago.

When Danger Money was released I was very curious on how they would sound without a guitarist. I don't have a problem with guitar-free music, but what I heard on Danger Money were often arrangements that clearly had space for a solo (probably originally a guitar-solo) but now only had a basic riff from bass, keys and drums. The bootlegs that appeared later with the first line up playing songs from the second album confirmed this idea. But despite that I love the album for what it is. I always thought Wetton sang more clear on this one than on the debut, with Carrying No Cross as an emotional highlight. The way he sings the last chapter even now gives me goose flesh. The first is the real classic though for me and a key-album for my collection.

**gearHed289** · 12-07-2021

Originally Posted by Progatron

Indeed, a good one:

https://www.progressiveears.org/foru...s-Danger-Money

Copied from my comment in the other thread: "I'm more of a fan of the three piece. Night After Night is my favorite, and I will generally take DM over the s/t. I think they were better off with Bruford and Holdsworth doing the Bruford albums, and Wetton and Jobson doing UK. The box set has a lot of great live stuff from both versions, including the expanded NAN, and their final show in its entirety."

I am a Holdsworth fan, but I sometimes feel like he didn't know what to do with himself half the time in UK. Sometimes he's just noodling around, or following whatever the bass is doing. And other times it's standard Holdsworth brilliance. Especially noticeable on live boots. I don't think it was the right vehicle for him.

Originally Posted by Rarebird

Nothing wrong with keyboardplayers taking the lead.

If you ask me, the world could use more lead keyboards (and violin!) and less lead guitar.

**Rarebird** · 12-07-2021

Originally Posted by Rajaz

It reminds me of when Geoff Downes replaced none other than Rick Wakeman in Yes (1980), and for the band UK it was also a mainstream player like Bozzio that would be replacing a Prog icon like Bill Bruford.
Made many scratch their heads on how he would fit in, specially playing the debut album material. But in both cases, it seems to have worked out fine.
Like they say, the rest is Prog History ;-)

Bozzio a mainstream player? Well, if you consider Frank Zappa mainstream, I suppose you are right, but I don't know in what universe Frank Zappa would be considered mainstream.

Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits

Bozzio a “mainstream player”? On what planet? And don’t forget that he and Jobson had already been bandmates in Frank Zappa’s band, so there was presumably already a rapport there.

What I thought.

Originally Posted by gearHed289

If you ask me, the world could use more lead keyboards (and violin!) and less lead guitar.

I completely agree with that. The only problem with a trio where the keboardplayer also handles the violin is the missing keyboards when the violin has a solo-spot live.

**ThomasKDye** · 12-07-2021

"The Only Thing She Needs" has a killer groove and some fierce momentum in the coda, with Terry Bozzio just playing his ass off. My favorite song from the album and one I play over and over!

**Dave (in MA)** · 12-07-2021

Originally Posted by gearHed289

I think they were better off with Bruford and Holdsworth doing the Bruford albums, and Wetton and Jobson doing UK.

Bruford was as good as UK, and trio UK was almost as good as UK.

**EBES** · 12-08-2021

Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits

Bozzio a “mainstream player”? On what planet? And don’t forget that he and Jobson had already been bandmates in Frank Zappa’s band, so there was presumably already a rapport there. (And Jobson had already drawn on his Zappa experience on the first U.K. album, with the distinctly Frank-flavored “Presto Vivace.”)

Weird that Bozzio was later briefly in Korn...

**Rarebird** · 12-08-2021

Originally Posted by EBES

Weird that Bozzio was later briefly in Korn...

I think he also had his own band after UK, Missing Persons I think.

**Polska** · 12-08-2021

I love this CD almost as much as the first. At the time I heard it I was only a couple years into drum lessons. My teacher played me "The Only Thing She Needs" and I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Up to that point I had never heard drumming like that. Yeah, fancy fills and stuff, but nothing at all like that. I remember it opened my eyes to the possibilities on drums. I never followed the path of trying to be a Bozzio, but it certainly influenced the way I play and what I still listen to now.