CAMEL - A Live Record

[Steve983]

The Richard Sinclair version of Camel didn't last very long, and I am under the impression that his work wasn't particularly appreciated or well liked by Peter and Andy, and one of his two studio album contributions to the band is not a particularly good album.

But Raindances and his part of the Live album are quite wonderful and both are my personal favorite Camel recordings. I realize that that's not the most popular take on Camel, but you saw it here first!

Well, being a late starter to the band, Breathless was the first Camel album that I bought, consequently it is my fave album of theirs despite a couple of dodgy tracks. It does have some incredible moments though such as Echoes, The Sleeper and the guitar solo on Summer Lightening which is totally face melting. I also think Sinclair's performance is outstanding, it's a shame he never found a more successful vehicle for his talents.

[JKL2000]

The Richard Sinclair version of Camel didn't last very long, and I am under the impression that his work wasn't particularly appreciated or well liked by Peter and Andy, and one of his two studio album contributions to the band is not a particularly good album.

But Raindances and his part of the Live album are quite wonderful and both are my personal favorite Camel recordings. I realize that that's not the most popular take on Camel, but you saw it here first!

I agree with you about Raindances - it's probably my favorite Camel album because of Sinclair's contribution. You saw it here first! Sinclair lifted Camel for a short while, and put them into the Canterbury genre for a bit.

[Steve F.]

Well, being a late starter to the band, Breathless was the first Camel album that I bought, consequently it is my fave album of theirs despite a couple of dodgy tracks. It does have some incredible moments though such as Echoes, The Sleeper and the guitar solo on Summer Lightening which is totally face melting. I also think Sinclair's performance is outstanding, it's a shame he never found a more successful vehicle for his talents.

You have encouraged me to revisit Breathless. It's only been 30 years or more....

Thanks for your commments!

[Steve F.]

P.S. I also forgot that Mel Collins is on this one (and Raindances) and plays really well.

[pb2015]

I bought most of Camel's 70's LPs when I started exploring the lesser known (compared to Yes, ELP, etc.) prog bands in the 90's, and Breathless was the only one I ended up keeping. My perspective may be odd since I first got interested in them after finding out that Sinclair joined them after Hatfield split (and that Kit Watkins was with them after Happy The Man).

[Progatron]

You have encouraged me to revisit Breathless. It's only been 30 years or more....

Tread carefully; while it has some good tracks, it also has You Make Me Smile.

As for Sinclair (whose contributions I also loved), Latimer says in the Curriculum Vitae documentary that he was more interested in his own stuff than he was in Camel. I believe he said Sinclair had "his own agenda"... so it was kind of destined to be a short tenure, I think. But it's one of my favourite periods as well, You Make Me Smile notwithstanding of course.

[Steve F.]

Latimer says in the Curriculum Vitae documentary that he was more interested in his own stuff than he was in Camel. I believe he said Sinclair had "his own agenda"... so it was kind of destined to be a short tenure, I think.

My hearing was that Latimer complained about the pieces Richard was bringing in and didn't want to learn them because they were 'too hard'.

Is that 'his own agenda'? I guess it is if you are the leader of the band and you can't be bothered to learn something outside of your comfort zone...

[Conti]

I don’t listen to Camel’s A Live Record for ages, but I have fond memories of it, especially a particularly good version of Lunar Sea and the overall quality of the playing. Interestingly, as much a fan as I am of Richard Sinclair (the only Camel albums I own on CD are the studio albums with him), Raindances has never really clicked to me. Even with all its shortcomings, I end up revisiting Breathless more often.

[interbellum]

Can someone clear up something for me? The 'On The Road' performance was recorded for the BBC at the Hammersmith Odeon on 2nd April 1981 according to the artwork. This sounds more like a mobile recording, mixed later for playback, and not the usual BBC 'mixed-on-the-fly' recording, usually obvious from the clumsy use of audience sound at the start and end of songs.

The Esoteric 2009 expanded release of 'I Can See Your House From Here' as 'Ice' live from the same venue, again for the BBC, but dated as 22nd February 1981. It's unlikely that the BBC would record the same band twice, however they did play the Hammersmith Odeon twice on that tour. Anyone know what's going on here?

This thread has some of the information you're looking for: https://www.progressiveears.org/foru...mersmith+odeon

[Progatron]

Is that 'his own agenda'? I guess it is if you are the leader of the band and you can't be bothered to learn something outside of your comfort zone...

I suppose so! Such is the nature of power struggles and clashes when a strong writer/musician joins an existing band. Latimer and Bardens already had each other to contend with, after all. Ahhh, band dynamics. They giveth and they taketh away.

[polmico]

Andy Ward fantastic in this too. Great album

His playing is so clean, so crisp and always tasteful. A deep and full sound on his drums throughout.

[polmico]

Is that 'his own agenda'? I guess it is if you are the leader of the band and you can't be bothered to learn something outside of your comfort zone...

Or his vision of Camel’s music was/is that it’s music that’s not “too hard.” We are only speculating, so who knows.

I really like Sinclair’s contributions to Camel. “Down on the Farm” sticks out like a sore thumb (which is t to day I dislike the tune).

[Progatron]

I really like Sinclair’s contributions to Camel. “Down on the Farm” sticks out like a sore thumb (which is t to day I dislike the tune).

Oddly enough, I can get behind the charm of that one. I can almost picture it (in some form) on Land Of Grey And Pink. It's not a classic or anything, but it isn't an automatic skipper track for me.

[polmico]

^odd auto correct. I meant to say “it’s not to say I dislike the tune.” It just doesn’t sound like a Camel song to me.

[Mister Triscuits]

^odd auto correct. I meant to say “it’s not to say I dislike the tune.” It just doesn’t sound like a Camel song to me.

Progatron is right, it sounds more like it belongs on a Caravan album. I love it, myself.

[moecurlythanu]

The Richard Sinclair version of Camel didn't last very long, and I am under the impression that his work wasn't particularly appreciated or well liked by Peter and Andy, and one of his two studio album contributions to the band is not a particularly good album.

But Raindances and his part of the Live album are quite wonderful and both are my personal favorite Camel recordings. I realize that that's not the most popular take on Camel, but you saw it here first!

As a huge Richard Sinclair fan, I can understand that. I don't feel the same way, but I understand it.

[JKL2000]

Oddly enough, I can get behind the charm of that one. I can almost picture it (in some form) on Land Of Grey And Pink. It's not a classic or anything, but it isn't an automatic skipper track for me.

Same here!

[EBES]

Oddly enough, I can get behind the charm of that one. I can almost picture it (in some form) on Land Of Grey And Pink. It's not a classic or anything, but it isn't an automatic skipper track for me.

I feel the same way... I think the trick for me with Breathless was to avoid treating anything like a skipper and just try to take it all as it is. There are lots of nice little bits of arrangements, melodies and solos stuck into songs that I might not love front to back.

[EBES]

Raindances and his part of the Live album are quite wonderful and both are my personal favorite Camel recordings. I realize that that's not the most popular take on Camel, but you saw it here first!

I don't know if Raindances is my favorite of theirs, but it does achieve a particular kind of mellow relaxing mood that nothing else in their catalog does, and I love it in a different way than the other classic stuff. I can't think of a better album to play while you're sleeping in on a drizzly morning, slightly hung over (and I live in the Pacific Northwest so that circumstance arises a lot for me).

[everyday]

Or his vision of Camel’s music was/is that it’s music that’s not “too hard.” We are only speculating, so who knows.

I really like Sinclair’s contributions to Camel. “Down on the Farm” sticks out like a sore thumb (which is t to day I dislike the tune).

I like that track. Reminds me of the track on Nod and a Wink (can't remember the title).

[Squigelyfox]

I agree with you about Raindances - it's probably my favorite Camel album because of Sinclair's contribution. You saw it here first! Sinclair lifted Camel for a short while, and put them into the Canterbury genre for a bit.

Have you noticed that Andy Latimer plays some bass on that album? This is because Sinclair didn't turn up at the studio. Surely this is the main issue Camel had with him.

[pb2015]

My hearing was that Latimer complained about the pieces Richard was bringing in and didn't want to learn them because they were 'too hard'.

Is that 'his own agenda'? I guess it is if you are the leader of the band and you can't be bothered to learn something outside of your comfort zone...

Not sure if Kit Watkins's situation was identical to Sinclair's, but I remember Watkins saying that after a while he realized that Latimer would not let Watkins contribute many compositions, because there were financial incentives for Latimer to write most of the music.

[JKL2000]

I don't know if Raindances is my favorite of theirs, but it does achieve a particular kind of mellow relaxing mood that nothing else in their catalog does, and I love it in a different way than the other classic stuff. I can't think of a better album to play while you're sleeping in on a drizzly morning, slightly hung over (and I live in the Pacific Northwest so that circumstance arises a lot for me).

I think a number of Camel albums have a mellow, relaxing mood. In fact, that's something they have in common with some of the more legit Canterbury bands. But you're right that Raindances is good for a drizzly morning.

BTW, about the writing, Bardens did a fair amount of writing for the band, didn't he?

[Progatron]

Bardens did a fair amount of writing for the band, didn't he?

Absolutely, yes. He either wrote or co-wrote the vast majority of the first six albums.

[rich]

Hard to find but can recommend ‘ On the Road 1981’ it’s a pristine BBC in Concert recording . Stunning versions of Never let Go. Song within a Song , Lunar Sea and a lot of Nude .

Love that version of Lunar Sea!