First Flower King Remasters Out Today

[chalkpie]

With the "pops and crackles" on Stardust and now these weird mixes on Unfold, these reissues are a bit strange indeed.

[Splicer]

With the "pops and crackles" on Stardust and now these weird mixes on Unfold, these reissues are a bit strange indeed.

I think Roine has gone full George Lucas with these remasters/remixes. At some point just stop tinkering.

[aith01]

Well, I dunno... It's Roine's/TFK's baby, so if he feels inclined to make changes he has the right to do it. I'm interested in hearing the different versions at least (and in some instances the new mixes did offer improvement over the originals, like "Psychedelic Postcard").

[Splicer]

Well, I dunno... It's Roine's/TFK's baby, so if he feels inclined to make changes he has the right to do it. I'm interested in hearing the different versions at least (and in some instances the new mixes did offer improvement over the originals, like "Psychedelic Postcard").

Just because someone can do a thing doesn't mean they should do it. If Paul McCartney wants to go back and pick take-6 of his bass part for "Paperback Writer", then it shouldn't replace the one everyone knows - it should be a bonus track/alternate version. Just leave well enough alone for songs people know.

[aith01]

Just because someone can do a thing doesn't mean they should do it.

True.

If Paul McCartney wants to go back and pick take-6 of his bass part for "Paperback Writer", then it shouldn't replace the one everyone knows - it should be a bonus track/alternate version. Just leave well enough alone for songs people know.

I would argue that Roine hasn't replaced the versions everyone knows with these reissues -- the originals have been available for a long time. But even if he did, he has the right to do it. I would still prefer he does what he wants to do, rather than what I want him to do. Even if sometimes his decisions don't align with my tastes, that's okay. Other folks may love it.

[moecurlythanu]

I'd like to see Roine do a collaboration album with Paul McCartney, just to see Paul refer to him as "the Swedish guy."

[SRS]

I'm glad I still have my original CD of Unfold the Future so I can continue to listen to the version of "Truth Will Set You Free" I enjoy rather than this remixed atrocity. Sadly, the only version available on Amazon Prime for listening is the remix - the original album nowhere in sight. There are two version of Stardust We Are on there so I wonder why that is.

I think Roine has gone full George Lucas with these remasters/remixes. At some point just stop tinkering.

I agree totally with all of this. And you bring a great point that I also have wondered about. Newer fans just discovering the band will hear only these 2022 remixed versions via their streaming service. They won't know of the original versions at all. And these new versions lack a lot of the magic of the originals, I think Roine just took on too much here - he is doing all this work by himself and he doesn't have anyone around him to bounce ideas off of. Someone like a Bodin or Reingold or Hasse sitting there with him who could push back as needed and tell him some of these changes are bad ideas. So he just goes further and further. We are now up to 5 versions for some of these Unfold the Future songs (promo, original release, Road Back Home, 2017 remaster/remix, 2022 remaster/remix)

My advice is for everyone to hold on to your original CD's. This remaster series is really only for the vinyl collector / completest. This goes for new fans as well, seek out used copies of the original releases. The odd one or two tracks that are improved (and yes "Psychedelic Postcard" is improved, nothing wrong with the original but the vocal effect made it a novelty song and the remix is better for repeat listens) but that is the only track I can think of that I prefer,,,,but I mostly tuned out after the mess of Stardust We Are 2022.

[JKL2000]

I'm holding onto my original CDs and the box sets. I'm good with those.

[aith01]

Newer fans just discovering the band will hear only these 2022 remixed versions via their streaming service. They won't know of the original versions at all. And these new versions lack a lot of the magic of the originals, [...]

This I think is highly subjective. They might have magic for us because we are familiar with them. But for a new listener? They won't be dealing with the "impostor syndrome" that affects us upon hearing altered versions of familiar songs.

I'm having a hard time getting worked up about these remixes. I don't think it's going to cause Roine and the guys to miss out on getting new fans. The songs themselves I think are still strong enough to grab a listener who is interested in that kind of music.

The 2018 remixed edition of UTF didn't bother me at all; I like it. As a musician myself, it always irks me a little whenever fans say that an artist (regardless of their field) shouldn't revisit or change their past work. There are things I've recorded that I really wish I could go back and change (or remove), with the knowledge/experience I have now.

None of TFK's music is sacrosanct to me personally (and I have all the originals anyway). I may be in the minority of TFK fans, I dunno, but this feels like making a mountain out of a molehill. IMO.

[Splicer]

If the criticism of Roine Stolt was, "I don't like when he wears green shirts," then I would consider that a frivolous comment. If the discussion is about the music itself - especially when it's in regards to the actual way it's mixed or produced or changes that are made - I'd say that is a pretty valid discussion. I don't believe in minimizing a topic by sloughing it off as somehow beneath seriousness if it isn't simply out of bounds (like being upset about someone's clothing choices).

[aith01]

If the criticism of Roine Stolt was, "I don't like when he wears green shirts," then I would consider that a frivolous comment. If the discussion is about the music itself - especially when it's in regards to the actual way it's mixed or produced or changes that are made - I'd say that is a pretty valid discussion. I don't believe in minimizing a topic by sloughing it off as somehow beneath seriousness if it isn't simply out of bounds (like being upset about someone's clothing choices).

Not sure where you are getting the "frivolous" thing from, assuming you are replying to my comments. The point I was trying to make (re: mountains and molehills) is that it's just music -- all Roine has done is release new versions of some songs that are entirely optional to listen to. As I said, all the originals are still out there for those who prefer them. Now if Roine had gone out and somehow destroyed every copy of the original CD releases, then this would be a different kind of conversation.

Now I just don't agree with telling Roine he should stop remixing/remastering/remaking. I understand if someone has an attachment to the way the originals sound, and thank goodness they still have those to listen to, but that is only one piece of the fanbase. There may be people who like hearing the new versions. Worrying about potential new fans missing out on the magic of the originals is unnecessary, IMO.

Personally, I found a lot of the original mixing/mastering on those mid-period TFK discs to be a bit loud and "condensed" or busy sounding. Things like Flower Power especially could have used some breathing room (again, IMO). I'm also interested in hearing what Roine does with the newer discs, like Adam & Eve and The Sum of No Evil. YMMV.

[Plasmatopia]

I'm thankful for the new remixes and find it really interesting to hear what sort of changes Roine felt needed to be made. Or at least whatever sonic preferences he has developed over the many years since these albums were originally released.

If someone knows and loves and owns the originals, I'm a bit mystified by what seems like outright anger about the existence of these remixes. Do you get angry when you hear live versions?

[Mota]

I did check Spotify, and the original versions are still available to stream. So there really isn't a negative to these remasters. If you like the old versions, play the old versions. If you're happy with your old CD's, no one is forced to buy the new ones. I'm just glad that they re-issued many of these old releases which were out of print.

[Splicer]

I'm thankful for the new remixes and find it really interesting to hear what sort of changes Roine felt needed to be made. Or at least whatever sonic preferences he has developed over the many years since these albums were originally released.

If someone knows and loves and owns the originals, I'm a bit mystified by what seems like outright anger about the existence of these remixes. Do you get angry when you hear live versions?

Let's get one thing straight - I'm not enraged over this because in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter. I listened to the remix. Didn't like it compared with the original. Said so. I'm just of the belief that my dislike of something is just as valid as someone's like. Art is subjective.

[aith01]

I'm just of the belief that my dislike of something is just as valid as someone's like.

And no one here has said otherwise.

Art is subjective.

This is one of the points I was trying to make.

Some people like what Roine has done with the remixes. Saying that Roine should stop (or comparing him to George Lucas, which while funny is not exactly apt IMO) is taking it a step beyond just stating that you don't like something, and there are going to be people who disagree with you.

[aith01]

I'm thankful for the new remixes and find it really interesting to hear what sort of changes Roine felt needed to be made. Or at least whatever sonic preferences he has developed over the many years since these albums were originally released.

Yes, and one of the things that occurred to me is that the original releases might not have represented what he had envisioned artistically. He might be using this as an opportunity to also bring some songs closer to his vision for what he wanted them to be, but couldn't at the time (e.g. budgets, deadlines, etc.).

[SRS]

I do get what your saying about liking or not liking the remixes being subjective. Back on page 1 when we were talking about the remix of Back in the World of Adventures I gave some examples and time marks to A/B compare between original and remix for a few places where I did think the 'magic' was missing on the new ones. But certainly someone could disagree with that.

But not all of my complaints are subjective ones. The popping and crackles on Stardust We Are are there for all to hear and that wasn't there before. The hissing in the background on songs like "Big Puzzle", the lack of attention paid to cross fading the songs and to song transitions in general. The albums used to flow from song to song as an album, some of that is missing now and we have weird fade outs and gaps. And even the physical products themselves - some have incomplete (or totally missing) liner notes. Some have a new write up from Roine, others don't.

But hey I figure that is what this thread is for - to talk the good and bad. Maybe this will encourage them to do another re-release series - this time of "The Original Masters" on vinyl. And we can all buy them again.

[aith01]

But not all of my complaints are subjective ones. The popping and crackles on Stardust We Are are there for all to hear and that wasn't there before. The hissing in the background on songs like "Big Puzzle", the lack of attention paid to cross fading the songs and to song transitions in general. The albums used to flow from song to song as an album, some of that is missing now and we have weird fade outs and gaps. And even the physical products themselves - some have incomplete (or totally missing) liner notes. Some have a new write up from Roine, others don't.

The pops/crackles on Stardust are unfortunate. I don't own the physical version of that reissue, but I've listened to the digital version. I have to believe that it's some kind of mistake, and I hope that Roine investigates and gets it sorted out.

I don't have World of Adventures so I can't really comment on it (aside from the new mix of "Cosmic Lover" sounding quite good to my ears). But the ones I do have (Retropolis, Flower Power, Space Revolver, Rainmaker) all sounded pretty great to me. I haven't noticed any weirdness with transitions -- which doesn't mean those aren't real; I'm probably just not attentive enough to have noticed yet.

But hey I figure that is what this thread is for - to talk the good and bad.

Totally.

[Hitmonchong]

I was listening to The Rainmaker the other day - sounds great!

[Sterbus]

With the "pops and crackles" on Stardust and now these weird mixes on Unfold, these reissues are a bit strange indeed.

The funny thing is that the record shop where I bought it refused to give me another one cause they send it back to the distributor and they found no pops and glitches.
I'm happily living without it.

(But the music was great)

[Mota]

Here's an interesting story, last month my wife and I went to see Larnell Lewis in concert, he's one of the drummers of Snarky Puppy. He is a crazy good jazz drummer, the concert was amazing.

But on the way home, I stealth snuck in Meet the Flower Kings on our 90 minute drive home, and my wife commented that the drumming sounded like Larnell. That was a good catch, because Zoltan has a jazz background, and really brought a lot of jazz flavor to the performance on the live album. I do really enjoy that period of TFK because the drumming is quite interesting, and I also am a huge Daniel Gildenlow fan (who is almost inaudible on the studio recordings, but has a bigger role in the live albums of that era).

[SRS]

^
Meet The Flower Kings is so great ! That's was such an amazing lineup. Zoltan, Daniel and also Hasse Bruniusson is there as well adding to the drums and percussion with his own unique style.
Having the 3 singers (Hasse, Roine, Daniel - who are all so different) really took songs like "Humanizzimo" to another level.

[progmatist]

Just a thought: perhaps the source of the pops and clicks on Stardust was it was a needle drop from the vinyl version released a few years ago? Because Roine lost the original source material?

Meet The Flower Kings is so great ! That's was such an amazing lineup. Zoltan, Daniel and also Hasse Bruniusson is there as well adding to the drums and percussion with his own unique style.
Having the 3 singers (Hasse, Roine, Daniel - who are all so different) really took songs like "Humanizzimo" to another level.

Not to mention Jonas spicing up bass lines previously recorded by Michael Stolt.

[calyx]

Not to mention Jonas spicing up bass lines previously recorded by Michael Stolt.

Quite a few on the early albums were actually played by Roine himself:

RS: I play all bass parts and most of the keyboards on "End Of Innocence", "In The Eyes Of The World", "There is More To This World", "Big Puzzle", ''Cosmic Lover", "Stardust We Are", "Merry-go-round", "Ghost Of The Red Cloud", bass and some keyboards on "Circus Brimstone" and more.

[chalkpie]

Circus Brimstone is top 3 FK for this guy