Steven Wilson - The Harmony Codex

[aith01]

Yep. Swing and a miss.

Well I don’t agree with that. But I also didn’t understand the use of the word “overreach”, in that context.

[Aggie87]

Of course Mr. Wilson can do whatever he wants. And he has. He's had the luxury being able to record what he wants, play with whom he wants. He's still a very sought after talent on both sides of the console. But I don't agree that he hasn't chased an audience with his last two solo albums. And it's obvious that TFB underperformed to his expectations because (as has already been pointed out) he went to the BREAK GLASS INCASE OF EMERGENCY PT reunion album in its wake. Smart man. I'm only making observations, not trying to be a tastemaker. I've championed Wilson for years. I liked H.C.E. I liked about half of TTB and parts of TFB. In fact, I've liked more of his solo career than I've disliked. Not that I hate any of it to be clear. I'll probably buy whatever he sells next. I don't worship anyone though and don't believe I need to be a total fanboy to be a fan.

I don't think the PT album was a reaction to TFB at all. It was music he and Harrison (and later Barbieri) had been developing since 2012, and really only came to the front burner because of COVID, when he had forced downtime, and elected to focus on that music. Had COVID not happened, SW might have continued on with his solo efforts, and it's possible the PT album might never have seen the light of day, or might have come around 5 years later, or something.

[3LockBox]

Well I don’t agree with that. But I also didn’t understand the use of the word “overreach”, in that context.

transitive verb. : to reach above or beyond : overtop. : to defeat (oneself) by seeking to do or gain too much.

Not to be confused with the term reach-around

[aith01]

transitive verb. : to reach above or beyond : overtop. : to defeat (oneself) by seeking to do or gain too much.

I know what it means. I still don't see how TFB is an "overreach". But whatever.

[mozo-pg]

I know what it means. I still don't see how TFB is an "overreach". But whatever.

Actually, I think overreach is defined as not prog enough (lol).

[Zeph]

He has every right to record whatever he likes, but he is crazy to think he can change trains at this stage in his career and gather a huge pop audience, just as he is deluded to think he can switch his predominantly prog fans over to a dance/pop direction. He should be eternally thankful that through his hardworking efforts he has built a very sizeable audience and has established a successful career way from the nine to five. Perhaps he is, and it just doesn’t seem this way in his interviews and mid-gig pronouncements.

Has he said all this stuff or are you making it up?

[3LockBox]

Actually, I think overreach is defined as not prog enough (lol).

Not really. I have liked his other forays into straight-up rock and pop. TFB just wasn't his best effort in my opinion. It's ok if anyone else likes it though. It's a discussion board, not a fan site.

[Interstellar]

I liked what he was trying to achieve with TFB, I just don't think the songwriting was good enough to make it a full artistic success. I'm still interested in hearing the next chapter.

[bondegezou]

Not really. I have liked his other forays into straight-up rock and pop. TFB just wasn't his best effort in my opinion. It's ok if anyone else likes it though. It's a discussion board, not a fan site.

I don't think TFB is very good either, but does that make it an example of "overreach" or just of a weaker album in his canon? Overreach implies he tried to do something fundamentally outside of his abilities, rather than just that he made another album and it wasn't his best.

[JJ88]

It's a discussion board, not a fan site.

Quite.

He himself indicated disappointment with the sales of the last album, didn't he? But I don't really know what was expected. I mean, it did OK for these days, as far as I can see. I assume there's an explanation for its awful US chart placing.

[Sunlight Caller]

Has he said all this stuff or are you making it up?

He’s often been heard denying the Prog tag, or highlighting the narrow tastes of some of his fans, or preaching about the merits of pop and making people stand and dance to his apparently ABBA influenced single. I like SW and have bought practically everything he’s ever released with early PT through solo, but I wish he would stop with all of these pronouncements and just get on with the music. He does seem to try and wind people up, that’s my take from years of observing.

[3LockBox]

He himself indicated disappointment with the sales of the last album, didn't he?

Yes he did. Which sort of negates the notion that he was making art for art's sake, public approval be damned. You can't be disappointed if you're not expecting anything.

[Geoff O'Donoghue]

public approval be damned

I'm pretty sure that SW has indicated in a number of interviews that, having made the music that he wants to make, he is then keen for it to be heard as widely as possible - which may then (or may not given the current state of artistic remuneration) translate into financial success.

[aith01]

Which sort of negates the notion that he was making art for art's sake

No, it doesn’t. He’s still trying to make a living. He can be disappointed that it didn’t do as well as he’d hoped, or that it didn’t get heard by as wide an audience as he’d hoped.

I’m sorry, but that is a weird argument to make IMO.

[marblesmike]

He has said before that while he follows his own muse, he of course hopes people like his music.

The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

[3LockBox]

No, it doesn’t. He’s still trying to make a living. He can be disappointed that it didn’t do as well as he’d hoped, or that it didn’t get heard by as wide an audience as he’d hoped.

I’m sorry, but that is a weird argument to make IMO.

It's not a condemnation of Wilson that he wants to be more famous than he is, or at least, outside the niche that he doesn't want to be associated with. WE ALL think Wilson/PT should have been bigger. Some of us think that the PT-C/C reunion on the heels of his least successful solo effort is merely coincidental, some of us do not. It's a difference of opinion not a personal attack. I'm not remiss that Wilson put out PT-C/C. I can still like the album and think it was the snub-nose revolver in his ankle holster incase his main pistol jammed.

[aith01]

It's not a condemnation of Wilson that he wants to be more famous than he is, or at least, outside the niche that he doesn't want to be associated with. WE ALL think Wilson/PT should have been bigger. Some of us think that the PT-C/C reunion on the heels of his least successful solo effort is merely coincidental, some of us do not. It's a difference of opinion not a personal attack. I'm not remiss that Wilson put out PT-C/C. I can still like the album and think it was the snub-nose revolver in his ankle holster incase his main pistol jammed.

Except I wasn't talking about PT-C/C in the discussion at hand. I was talking about TFB (i.e. "overreach", pop, mainstream success, etc.). Honestly I don't care what his reason was for resurrecting Porcupine Tree; I'm glad that it happened, but I wasn't pining away for the return of PT. I'm just not one of the die-hards. I've enjoyed most of Wilson's solo work to varying degrees, especially when compared to The Incident.

But the point I was trying to make was put much more eloquently by marblesmike:

He has said before that while he follows his own muse, he of course hopes people like his music.

The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Thanks Mike, you said it better than me.

[JJ88]

He’s often been heard denying the Prog tag, or highlighting the narrow tastes of some of his fans, or preaching about the merits of pop and making people stand and dance to his apparently ABBA influenced single. I like SW and have bought practically everything he’s ever released with early PT through solo, but I wish he would stop with all of these pronouncements and just get on with the music.

Yes I saw a video of this and it was highly awkward. I mean, I already have ABBA's albums so I don't need to hear that.

I remember he had a two-episode show with Tim Bowness on an online digital radio channel, where he played a lot of different stuff. He's an engaging enough guy without these lofty pronouncements and lecturing.

[bondegezou]

He’s often been heard denying the Prog tag, or highlighting the narrow tastes of some of his fans, or preaching about the merits of pop and making people stand and dance to his apparently ABBA influenced single. I like SW and have bought practically everything he’s ever released with early PT through solo, but I wish he would stop with all of these pronouncements and just get on with the music. He does seem to try and wind people up, that’s my take from years of observing.

So, he's a lot like Robert Fripp...? It's worked for Fripp given the devotion he inspires!

[Frumious B]

He didn't have sex with a 14-year old or give any Nazi salutes, true.

Well, my point is that Wilson is not and never has been an innovator. I think he’s a sometimes excellent songwriter, a talented producer and a decent singer/guitar player, not great but he can get the job done. However, in terms of his music he has always been an assimilator and it’s generally pretty easy to figure out what he’s been listening to or remixing, because he wears his influences on his sleeve. For some reason he felt the need to make a really chill and sedate Trent Reznor record and folks are supposed to react like he invented the wheel.

[Rael]

I liked what he was trying to achieve with TFB, I just don't think the songwriting was good enough to make it a full artistic success. I'm still interested in hearing the next chapter.

I agree. There are bits of TFB that I really like, but I find it an inconsistent album. I don't mind the musical direction at all. I really doubt he's going to do another Raven style record and if he wants to lean into the pop spectrum more, as long as the results are good, I'm OK with that. But it sounds like The Harmony Codex is going to be a varied album so I'm really curious to hear what he does with it.

[Sunlight Caller]

So, he's a lot like Robert Fripp...? It's worked for Fripp given the devotion he inspires!

Henry I am not sure he is a lot like Fripp, a bit perhaps! Certainly I struggle to see the ABBA Pop in Fripp's work, and when it comes to gigs, in my experience Robert prefers a reverential and passively attentive audience. They do however both inspire devotion.

[bondegezou]

Henry I am not sure he is a lot like Fripp, a bit perhaps! Certainly I struggle to see the ABBA Pop in Fripp's work, and when it comes to gigs, in my experience Robert prefers a reverential and passively attentive audience. They do however both inspire devotion.

I didn't mean the Abba bit, but if I might edit your earlier words: "He’s often been heard denying the Prog tag, or highlighting the narrow tastes of some of his fans [...] I wish he would stop with all of these pronouncements and just get on with the music. He does seem to try and wind people up, that’s my take from years of observing." Isn't that Fripp to a tee?

[aith01]

For some reason he felt the need to make a really chill and sedate Trent Reznor record and folks are supposed to react like he invented the wheel.

I don't know where you're getting that from.

[boilk]

I don't know where you're getting that from.

Me, either.

Neil