The Guess Who

[Trane]

IMHO

For me, RB & BC are the main pillars of the 60/70's TGW (though the former having left in 1970, the second in 75), and if it wasn't for them two, we wouldn't even remember the band at all (not even sure it would've gone past 68). Soooo, I feel like saying in a way: no RB & BC, no TGW.

But Bachman & Cummings have long (decades) left Kale & Petersen the reins of TGW, often content to come back when it suited them (IMHO).
In a sense, JK (left in 72, but relivened the band from 77 until... today) & GP (+/- the same) have kept the band structure alive, to allow the main two coming back and not have to rebuild it from scratch, whenever it suited them to relive their former glories (a hole in their own careers).
Of course, if the recent exploits denounced by the duo are true (which I won't doubt happened), they are maladroit wrongdoings, which should be fixed.

Those millions of $ asked for compensation sound like flexing muscle and probably little more than a rainstorm in a tea cup, once it will be over.

Still IMHO.

[Steve F.]

It came out in January 1970.

I think I got it in early 1970...

[SteveSly]

Cummings and Bachman are suing this current iteration of The Guess Who. I sure hope they win.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...ark-1234863424

Burton Cummings and Randy Bachman have sued fellow original members Jim Kale and Garry Peterson as well as the band itself, accusing them of misleading fans to believe that the current iteration of the group — which Bachman and Cummings have labeled as “little more than a cover band” — is the original Guess Who.

In a federal suit filed in Los Angeles on Monday and obtained by Rolling Stone, Bachman and Cummings allege that the current lineup — where Peterson is the only current member who was also in the band’s classic era — has used the band’s name, photos of the original lineup, and recordings that Bachman and Cummings performed on “to give the false impression that Plaintiffs are performing as part of the cover band.”

“They’ve taken mine and Randy’s history, the history of the Guess Who, and stolen it to market their cheap ticket sales in their fake bullshit shows,” Cummings tells Rolling Stone. “It takes away everybody’s legitimacy.”

The counts listed in the suit are false advertising, unfair competition, and violation of right of publicity, and Cummings and Bachman are seeking as much as $20 million in damages.


I've also noticed this going on - which is really messed up:

Along with using the original band’s images and recordings to advertise shows, Bachman and Cummings allege that the defendants replaced the original band’s pictures on streaming services including Spotify and Apple Music with the new group “for the purpose of implying that the Cover Band is the Original TGW in an effort to boost the Cover Band’s ticket sales for live performances and to give the false impression that Plaintiffs are performing as part of the Cover Band or have an affiliation with the Cover Band.

“These artist pages intermingle music by the Original TGW with music by the Cover Band, and Defendants in some cases replaced photographs of the Original TGW members with photographs of the Cover Band’s members to further sow confusion that they are the same as the Original TGW,” the suit alleged. “This intermingling of music and use of the Cover Band’s photographs creates the false and misleading impression that the music all comes from the same source.”

This whole situation is similar to The Little River Band in that all the original members signed off on the transfer of the band name at various times over the years. It may not be right from a fan perspective, but from a legal perspective the original members don’t really have a case. In The Guess Who’s case, drummer Gary Peterson is an original member, which makes the case even less likely to succeed.

On the other hand, if the current band is using Cummings and Bachman in their marketing and implying that they are still in the band when advertising their live shows, they may have something for that.

[Dan Roth]

This whole situation is similar to The Little River Band in that all the original members signed off on the transfer of the band name at various times over the years. It may not be right from a fan perspective, but from a legal perspective the original members don’t really have a case. In The Guess Who’s case, drummer Gary Peterson is an original member, which makes the case even less likely to succeed.

On the other hand, if the current band is using Cummings and Bachman in their marketing and implying that they are still in the band when advertising their live shows, they may have something for that.

Yeah, as Randy Bachman posted yesterday: "Zero original members are currently playing in the band. Not even Kale or Peterson. We understand bands grow, change and switch out members due to circumstance or passing but these guys are a tribute band, plain and simple. When people spend hard earned money on tickets, they deserve to know that. Who is the spotify photo for our band? Strangers."

Peterson is in the videos and in press photos, but apparently he doesnt play all the shows, so in many cases there is no one from the classic-era band up there. Changing out the photo on streaming services so you're looking at a photo of the current lineup while listening to the original "Share the Land" for example is pretty messed up. Sucks that the current lineup were able to pull that off, but not sure if there is legal precedent for that kind of thing.

I get that they may not get the name back, no matter how deserving, but the crux of their issue is how the band is presenting themselves. I wonder if they may go the way that Yes has, with always listing the band members on their website and concert ads.

[SteveSly]

Yeah, as Randy Bachman posted yesterday: "Zero original members are currently playing in the band. Not even Kale or Peterson. We understand bands grow, change and switch out members due to circumstance or passing but these guys are a tribute band, plain and simple. When people spend hard earned money on tickets, they deserve to know that. Who is the spotify photo for our band? Strangers."

Peterson is in the videos and in press photos, but apparently he doesnt play all the shows, so in many cases there is no one from the classic-era band up there. Changing out the photo on streaming services so you're looking at a photo of the current lineup while listening to the original "Share the Land" for example is pretty messed up. Sucks that the current lineup were able to pull that off, but not sure if there is legal precedent for that kind of thing.

I get that they may not get the name back, no matter how deserving, but the crux of their issue is how the band is presenting themselves. I wonder if they may go the way that Yes has, with always listing the band members on their website and concert ads.

I was not aware that Peterson has not been playing with them. He was on the band's recent album, and I have seen a farily recent interview where it was implied that he was playing live, but the guy does not appear to be in the best of health, so maybe he is no longer playing live.

[ronmac]

If the lawsuit fails, Burton and Randy should tour as "No Need to Guess Who," or some variation. But, they did tour as Bachman-Cummings a few years back.

[Trane]

If the lawsuit fails, Burton and Randy should tour as "No Need to Guess Who," or some variation. But, they did tour as Bachman-Cummings a few years back.

maybe the tribute/cover band should call themselves The Guess What.

[Dan Roth]

Greg Smith (Ted Nugent, Wizards of Winter, Tommy James), the bass player who was hired to tour with The Guess Who currently, posted this on Facebook:

"Some of you have been reaching out to me regarding some “news” about The Guess Who. I’ll deflect those questions with the fact that there’s some amazing new music that this band has consistently put out, without the former members who seem to have a problem with it. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the former members I’m speaking of. Both for their contributions to The Guess Who, AND their contributions to Rock music on their own! Clearly this band would not be where it is without them.. We all walk our path in life. We choose what roads we think are the best. Their path put them where they are, and all of our paths put us where we are. That is all, carry on…."

[progmatist]

Guess we'll never know what their new name should be.

[arturs]

Regarding the legal case, it all comes down to who trademarked the band name. The LRB founders had a particularly weak case because they actually formally sold their rights to the band name. I think a closer analogue to this case is the Byrds. No one had trademarked the name, so Mike Clarke in the 1980s did so sometime when he was touring as the Byrds with a bunch of nobodies. McGuinn and Crosby sued but the judge's logic IIRC was that Clarke too was an original member and he was keeping the "band" going. So why shouldn't he own the rights? Judges won't get into an argument about who were and were not really the key members and so on.

[ronmac]

Greg Smith (Ted Nugent, Wizards of Winter, Tommy James), the bass player who was hired to tour with The Guess Who currently, posted this on Facebook:

"Some of you have been reaching out to me regarding some “news” about The Guess Who. I’ll deflect those questions with the fact that there’s some amazing new music that this band has consistently put out, without the former members who seem to have a problem with it....

Nice try. It's not the music, it's the name under which you're releasing it. If it's so great, let it stand on its own. Release it under a name that doesn't mislead fans of the original band.

[SteveSly]

Regarding the legal case, it all comes down to who trademarked the band name. The LRB founders had a particularly weak case because they actually formally sold their rights to the band name. I think a closer analogue to this case is the Byrds. No one had trademarked the name, so Mike Clarke in the 1980s did so sometime when he was touring as the Byrds with a bunch of nobodies. McGuinn and Crosby sued but the judge's logic IIRC was that Clarke too was an original member and he was keeping the "band" going. So why shouldn't he own the rights? Judges won't get into an argument about who were and were not really the key members and so on.

I am of the understanding that Jim Kale currently owns the rights to The Guess Who name and trademarked it in 1986. Not sure exactly how it got to that point though.

[Dan Roth]

I was not aware that Peterson has not been playing with them. He was on the band's recent album, and I have seen a farily recent interview where it was implied that he was playing live, but the guy does not appear to be in the best of health, so maybe he is no longer playing live.

This is from a few days ago - not sure who that is on drums:

[ronmac]

^^ Wow, Burton sounds great!

[arturs]

To me they look like Spinal Tap more than anyone...

[Trane]

From what we"ve seen earlier in the year in those new album videoclips, Petersen is roughly 180 kg and probably filled with diabetes, high blood pressure, etc... and probably only able to play where there is wheelchair access.

To me they look like Spinal Tap more than anyone...

A Spinal Tap without Tufnel, St Hubbins, Parnell & Smalls


I coudn't even see Kale on stage ... nobody that seemed old enough to be in TGW.
Disgraceful & disrespectful, IMHO.

[pb2015]

I think Kale hasn't performed in some time, but oversees the business. Similar with Bobby Colomby and Blood Sweat and Tears.

[Dan Roth]

Burton Cummings posted this on his Facebook, which is something that both he and Bachman have been mentioning quite a bit. I certainly side with those guys on this being wrong, but is the band who owns The Guess Who name breaking any law here? :

Cummings wrote:

"It's an interesting concept to go to the landing pages of the streaming sites for the songs you wrote/co-wrote and sang and see pictures of strangers. Yet here you have guys trying to trick people into thinking they are behind the recordings. Without using the songs I wrote and sang, these guys have no acclaim of their own to market their shows and sell tickets. Songs that chart are what sell tickets and there hasn't been one for The Guess Who since 1975.
They can be "The Guess Who"...but they can't be THAT Guess Who. The ones behind the hits and who traveled the world promoting them decades ago."

[SteveSly]

I think Kale hasn't performed in some time, but oversees the business. Similar with Bobby Colomby and Blood Sweat and Tears.

Yes, he is no longer performing.

[Dan Roth]

Burton posted this as well:

"Over the years it’s happened often that I’ve been handed a Guess Who album that has signatures of people I have never even meet. The most memorable for me was opening up our Live At the Paramount and seeing the lead singer of the cover band had signed his name over MY picture. Recently some albums made their way to me and a few had autographs of strangers. They were all returned unsigned by me.
And that is the point of this action. You can be a cover band and sing the songs, but you can’t be THE band that wrote/recorded and sang the songs. You cannot continue to deceive the public and use the songs I wrote/co-wrote and sang as bait to sell tickets."

I'm all on his side here, just hope he has the legal standing to do something.

[ronmac]

^^ 100% on his side.

I remember seeing "The Guess Who" in the 1990s (maybe late 80s) without Burton or Randy. I was expecting them to be part of the band. I can't say I heard any advertising that mentioned their names, but I certainly still felt snookered.

[Trane]

The only time I saw the band was the classic quartet (along with a couple unknowns) in 83, but there was no album to promote, if memory serves.

Bachman's project & groups (Ironhorse, Union, etc...) weren't lasting very much in the early 80's. Burton was on the fege of becoming a crooner (not helped by his terrible sense of fashion) , so I guess both of them needed a new kickstart (new exposure) for their career.

Not sure it worked, though.

[ronmac]

The only time I saw the band was the classic quartet (along with a couple unknowns) in 83, but there was no album to promote, if memory serves.

No, but they did release a live album and video of the '83 reunion.

[SteveSly]

^^ 100% on his side.

I remember seeing "The Guess Who" in the 1990s (maybe late 80s) without Burton or Randy. I was expecting them to be part of the band. I can't say I heard any advertising that mentioned their names, but I certainly still felt snookered.

I also saw them in the 90's (my only time), but I knew the lineup, so knew what I was getting into. Kale and Peterson were still in the band. It was good for what it was. Never saw the original band unfortunately.

[Jerjo]

Never saw the original band unfortunately.

Back in the day, they were an ass-kicking unit. A lot harder than most would think.