Was John Wetton a 'good' bass player?

[Finch Platte]

Would like to know what folks here think about Wetton's playing. All I've heard is UK and a couple of Asia tracks (I don't really like Asia).

I know the guy was competent, but was he a great prog bass player? Could he be intricate and busy, or was he more workmanlike? I know at times he would be singing and playing, which is no mean feat, from what I hear.

Just curious.

[timmy]

I believe he was a fantastic bass player and singer.

His bass sound on the 1973-1975 King Crimson live recordings is exhilarating. Like Entwhistle (until Entwhistle began using a miniature Sunn PA onstage ), Wetton was using Hiwatt amplifiers, plus he incorporated a Jen Double Sound fuzz-wah to significant effect. His '61 Fender Precision bass matched with those Hiwatts is the perfect match.

He switched to Marshalls in the band U.K., but his dirty overdriven bass sound remained. Listen to the live bootlegs of the U.K. shows. Damn, that is a great bass tone!

If you listen closely, you can still hear that lovely dirty bass sound on the first Asia record and most 82 tour Asia live bootlegs.

As for his playing, he served the songs perfectly. I never heard him overplay. His note choices helped inform the emotion within the music, giving players like Fripp and Howe the platform to express melodies with confidence and comfort.

I'd say John Wetton was a very 'good' bass player.

[Zeuhlmate]

He was a very good rock bass player in King Crimson. I loved his sound!
Great singer! And playing odd meters and singing simultanuosly (Easy Money)

His bass technique was maybe not quite up to what was needed in UK or more fusionlike music, but in Crimson I loved it.

Sublime:

[Vic2012]

Yes he was a great bass player. Listen to Red and Larks Tongues.

[Sputnik]

I definitely think he was quite good. It took me longer to appreciate what he brought to the table in KC and UK (first album especially) compared to many players who were perhaps "flashier." With so many other elements flying around, Wetton provided a solid, booming foundation, linked to what were often tricky rhythms or odd time signatures. He was the glue, but he was more than that, as his lines often took on melodic aspects... maybe not as much as Squire or Rutherford, but KC's music at that time didn't require that, nor did UK's. Wetton could also play tricky lines when needed, but this wasn't his calling card. He correctly assessed what was needed, and played to the compositions and the structure of the bands he was in, but I think he brought a lot to the table with his bass playing as well, especially sonically.

Bill

[polmico]

His bass sound was essential for the Bruford/Cross/Fripp/Wetton line-up. I imagine most folk will agree when I say that Tony Levin is a more technically proficient bass player, but tunes like "Fallen Angel" and "Fracture" lose something without Wetton's growly, thundery tone. After listening to the last band's interpretation of "Exiles," I wasn't surprised it was dropped with only one live document released (at least, physically). Wetton turned a pretty, marching ballad into something sinister and threatening on stage.

[boilk]

Personally, I think that he was a great bass player, taking into account tone, skill at composing lines and overall technique. That tone without a pick (fuzz pedal, or no), is incredible.

His bass sound was essential for the Bruford/Cross/Fripp/Wetton line-up. I imagine most folk will agree when I say that Tony Levin is a more technically proficient bass player...

I agree that Tony may be the more technically proficient, but I think that John was a better improvisor.

Neil

[starless and bible black]

Would like to know what folks here think about Wetton's playing. All I've heard is UK and a couple of Asia tracks (I don't really like Asia).

I know the guy was competent, but was he a great prog bass player? Could he be intricate and busy, or was he more workmanlike? I know at times he would be singing and playing, which is no mean feat, from what I hear.

I say that YES; John Wetton was a Great Bass Player. His work with King Crimson in the mid '70s along with the two albums he made with U.K. is the proof of his skills as a Bass Player.

[progmatist]

Simply being able to sing and play bass at the same time makes one a great bass player. Assuming they don't just thump the root of the chord like Sheryl Crow. I've played with so many people who could sing and play guitar without a problem. But can't for the life of them sing and play bass. I count exactly *TWO* over the decades who could sing and play bass.

[arturs]

I'm just piling on the praise at this point, but yes JW was an amazing player in KC. The adjectives you all used "booming" "threatening" and "growling" are spot on. I would add "monsterous". There's one improv on the Great Deceiver Box where his bass sounds like a giant slithering snake that will eat anyone who stumbles in its path. It really feels viscerally frightening. I really can't think of any other bassist whose playing has had such a visually evocative effect on me.

OF course, in a setting like Asia, not so much... and I happen to like Asia.

[JKL2000]

Good assessment. Makes sense that he was called on to guest on bass for several other bands’ albums.

[Jaco]

Just occasionally post UK , he’d pull out the stops , but much less so, I really like his bass on the Wishbone Ash album Number the Brave , the title track has a classic thundering bass line . On his last studio recording with Asia , Gravitas , he plays a wonderful sparse solo on Russian Dolls .

[Vic2012]

Simply being able to sing and play bass at the same time makes one a great bass player.

This. You know it.

[Finch Platte]

This. You know it.

Thanks, everyone, for the thoughtful answers. I think my issue is that the bass, in what I've heard of Wetton's stuff, isn't really bottom-y, if that makes sense. They're all older recordings, so the bass won't be as prominent as on newer stuff. I'm listening to Nothing To Lose, from the live UK, and while I can hear the upper bass registers, when he goes low, it doesn't shake the floor, so it's harder for me to follow.

Anyhoo, I had a buddy who played guitar, and while he couldn't improvise to save his live, he could copy stuff that was insane. He could play along with Al DiMeola records, lick for lick. Impressed the hell out of me. Later, he took up the bass, and we played in a couple of bands, and he told me learning to sing and play bass was one of the hardest things he'd ever done (besides finding a job, lol). RIP, Robert!

[bigjohnwayne]

I think he was a great bass player. With Crimson he was a master of dynamics. Check any rendition of Talking Drum/Larks Tongues pt 2. He also did some wonderfully melodic things. Check out the intro to the Night Watch or his work on Trio from Starless and Bible Black. On KC and with the original UK he made almost every song more exciting for me.

[rcarlberg]

When talking about "great bass playing" I think one has to make a distinction: pre-Jaco, or past-Jaco?

Up until Jaco Pastorius hit the scene (1974 or so) bass players were evaluated on their ability to lay down the beat and mesh with the drummer. Some little flourishes couldn't hurt.

After the mid-'70s however everyone was expected to play "lead bass." Everyone was expected to be melodic and lyrical and go off the reservation of just playing "bass lines." Some bass players adjusted, some did not. I never heard much Jaco in John's playing.

[Sputnik]

When talking about "great bass playing" I think one has to make a distinction: pre-Jaco, or past-Jaco?

Up until Jaco Pastorius hit the scene (1974 or so) bass players were evaluated on their ability to lay down the beat and mesh with the drummer. Some little flourishes couldn't hurt.

After the mid-'70s however everyone was expected to play "lead bass." Everyone was expected to be melodic and lyrical and go off the reservation of just playing "bass lines." Some bass players adjusted, some did not. I never heard much Jaco in John's playing.

There's so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin. First, there are countless bass players who did far more than "lay down the beat and mesh with the drummer" prior to 1974. If anything, by 1974/75, things are starting to become more streamlined, especially in rock music, and bass players are increasingly returning to their traditional role.

Second, as great as Jaco is, he does not "define" great bass playing. You can be a great bass player and not sound at all like Jaco, or approach the instrument as Jaco did. There is no pre/post Jaco distinction in evaluating players. Great playing can take many forms.

Bill

[Rarebird]

There's so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin. First, there are countless bass players who did far more than "lay down the beat and mesh with the drummer" prior to 1974. If anything, by 1974/75, things are starting to become more streamlined, especially in rock music, and bass players are increasingly returning to their traditional role.

Second, as great as Jaco is, he does not "define" great bass playing. You can be a great bass player and not sound at all like Jaco, or approach the instrument as Jaco did. There is no pre/post Jaco distinction in evaluating players. Great playing can take many forms.

Bill

You are right on all counts. Look at what John Entwistle did in The Who.

Being a great musician is not about how many notes one can play, but about playing the right notes.

[Jaco]

When talking about "great bass playing" I think one has to make a distinction: pre-Jaco, or past-Jaco?

Up until Jaco Pastorius hit the scene (1974 or so) bass players were evaluated on their ability to lay down the beat and mesh with the drummer. Some little flourishes couldn't hurt.

After the mid-'70s however everyone was expected to play "lead bass." Everyone was expected to be melodic and lyrical and go off the reservation of just playing "bass lines." Some bass players adjusted, some did not. I never heard much Jaco in John's playing.

I got to meet John several times and asked him about favourite bass players , he immediately said Miroslav Vitous

[Seven8]

I got to meet John several times and asked him about favourite bass players , he immediately said Miroslav Vitous

Thanks for this, I'm about to go down a rabbit hole to explore more of Miroslav Vitous' music!

IMHO John Wetton was one of THE greats. I'm still trying to emulate his tone and stylistic playing! And to think some of this music was created 50 years ago is hard to believe. He may not have been the first but I would still consider him to be one of the pioneers of prog rock bass.

Love the isolated bass video. Here's another one:

[Sputnik]

Love the isolated bass video. Here's another one:

I Never realized the intro and outro parts were multitracked. That explains a lot of the rich melodic content in those sections.

Bill

[Bake 2]

When talking about "great bass playing" I think one has to make a distinction: pre-Jaco, or past-Jaco?

Up until Jaco Pastorius hit the scene (1974 or so) bass players were evaluated on their ability to lay down the beat and mesh with the drummer. Some little flourishes couldn't hurt.

After the mid-'70s however everyone was expected to play "lead bass." Everyone was expected to be melodic and lyrical and go off the reservation of just playing "bass lines." Some bass players adjusted, some did not. I never heard much Jaco in John's playing.

Maybe Colin Hodgkinson, Eberhard Weber and John Entwistle (to name a few) didn't get this memo.

[Proghound]

John Wetton was not only a fantastic bass player, but a damn good guitar player as well. This really shows on "Live Via Satellite"

[vostoklake]

Robert Fripp said that Wetton in his prime was the best English bass player of his generation. Tony Levin has said that it was a challenge to master some of Wetton's bass lines for 2013-21 KC, and if Tony Levin says you were exceptional, you were exceptional.

[Gizmotron]

Robert Fripp said that Wetton in his prime was the best English bass player of his generation. Tony Levin has said that it was a challenge to master some of Wetton's bass lines for 2013-21 KC, and if Tony Levin says you were exceptional, you were exceptional.

This is one of the best posts here! Great point!!

By the way, he did all this—playing complex patterns in odd meters, singing extremely subtle yet powerful vocal lines, coordinating with his fellow band mates—and still had leftover bandwith to make eye contact and interact with the audience.