Are we a dying breed?

[Brad 2 the Bone]

I'd put roughly the same odds of that happening, on my having dinner and a nightcap with Katy Perry this evening.

lloyd-300x225.jpg

[Captain Geech]

Aren't many of the points expressed here simply .... progression?
If you don't progress, you are simply standing still ....

OR
Is it simply .. perpetual change?

I would say yes to that. It's just the natural progression of life. I accept change better than a lot of people I encounter, and roll with it better than most. I guess that's part of why I am still interested in finding new music. It's getting harder to find something that clicks, some new sound that isn't just an echo of the past, but something truly new and interesting.

[progmatist]

What I'd really love to see is for Steve to do a Genesis Revisited 3 where he takes material from AFTER he left the band and approaches it the same way he did the material on the first Genesis Revisited. I think it'd be fascinating to see his take on stuff like Mama, Domino, Dodo, or the Duke Suite. Or maybe even Calling All Stations.

I'd put roughly the same odds of that happening, on my having dinner and a nightcap with Katy Perry this evening. But I DO think it would be a really cool/interesting idea.

That would be roughly equivalent to Rod Evans touring with a bunch of LA musicians, as "Deep Purple." Performing mostly Mark II material.

[MudShark22]

I had an image for a moment of a band consisting of Hughes, Evans and Coverdale with Sykes on guitar and Vinnie Appice on drums.

Called "What the HEC"

Man this stuff is strong......

[MortSahlFan]

I also would rather die... Because of the lack of talent, originality, punctuality, I've mostly been a one-man band, and I can't tell you how many times I've heard... basically, instrumentals go nowhere, especially without using trends.. Then what's the point? To sound like others is a waste of time. But after 30 years, I've been discouraged, but also decided to expand a bit - writing brass arrangements to add to old songs of mine, or new ones, or orchestral.. I'm an author, but can't seem to marry the two, so on occasion, I will hire someone I know to add vocables.

Playing live, I was lucky that my last band around here did NOT want to play the hits. Commercial bands, but mostly deep tracks... Out of the 33 songs we did for our big concert downtown, 20 of them were Steely Dan. We played a few Zep (Fool In The Rain, All My Love), Cream, Zep, Billy Joel, Beatles, Lennon, Todd Rundgren.

But I can't find a band, let alone one person.. I'd love to jam/record, and bounce ideas off each other. But I've been away from Michigan a while, and since then, the things that used to work like Craigslist, don't.... Or this music venue which was very helpful that is hardly ever open. And then other things in life happen and before long it's been a few years since I've played live. Right before COVID.

[Yodelgoat]

Glad to hear all your opinions! Please don't think I'm ready to open my wrists over people not liking old music. I really don't think anyone is missing Tony Bennett or Glenn Miller - But I actually still do. That was my parents music and was a big part of my own life. I just have very little good things to say about modern music. Except perhaps in the nooks and crannies of the Prog world.

Updates: Playing on the street in Sedona in July, I played Bohemian Rhapsody and 2 little kids - maybe 5 or 6 years old stood there and sang the whole thing with me. Apparently there is a video game that uses that song, so kids know it. Last week I was playing on the street in a tiny Texas town called Dumas just for an hour or so... Got three smiles and waves. Lots of bewildered looks, which are just as much fun.

Back in my home town, I am definitely seeing fewer people who know the music I play. It has been an extremely hot summer here in Tejas, and so older people like me are probably staying out of the 113 degree heat. I play at night and it still was regularly over 100 degrees at 9pm.

Anyway, I apologize for flittering in and out like I do. I used to regularly hang out here, but life has become oddly, more busy, so I just dont have the bandwidth to do everything I would like. Including reading the arguments over the latest Yes release. - Wait... Is there one???? ...533 pages later...

[progmatist]

Updates: Playing on the street in Sedona in July, I played Bohemian Rhapsody and 2 little kids - maybe 5 or 6 years old stood there and sang the whole thing with me. Apparently there is a video game that uses that song, so kids know it. Last week I was playing on the street in a tiny Texas town called Dumas just for an hour or so... Got three smiles and waves. Lots of bewildered looks, which are just as much fun.

During First Fridays in the Downtown Phoenix Arts District, many young bands busking up and down Roosevelt Row play OUR music. A young band right outside my place of employment played a few old Rush songs. With the vocalists trying to do Geddy's screeching falsetto. He also tried doing Robert Plant when they played Zeppelin songs. The crowd walking up and down the street seem to love all of it. Not just people our age reliving their youth. Young people love it as well.

[SteveSly]

Glad to hear all your opinions! Please don't think I'm ready to open my wrists over people not liking old music. I really don't think anyone is missing Tony Bennett or Glenn Miller - But I actually still do. That was my parents music and was a big part of my own life. I just have very little good things to say about modern music. Except perhaps in the nooks and crannies of the Prog world.

Updates: Playing on the street in Sedona in July, I played Bohemian Rhapsody and 2 little kids - maybe 5 or 6 years old stood there and sang the whole thing with me. Apparently there is a video game that uses that song, so kids know it. ..

I think the "Bohemian Rhapsody" movie had a lot to do with introducing that song and other Queen songs to a whole new generation.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

Hey, some of us miss Tony Bennett. Glenn Miller, maybe not so much....

[progmatist]

Hey, some of us miss Tony Bennett. Glenn Miller, maybe not so much....

One must consider the abrupt end to Glenn Miller's career. When his plane went down in the English Channel, during the second world war. My parents pushing 80 are barely old enough to remember Glenn Miller's music.

[Rarebird]

One must consider the abrupt end to Glenn Miller's career. When his plane went down in the English Channel, during the second world war. My parents pushing 80 are barely old enough to remember Glenn Miller's music.

And there are still people covering his music and playing for audiences.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

Oh, I like some of Miller's music. "In the Mood," "Star Dust," and especialy "Pennsylvania 6-5000." But he, as a person -- well, theoretically, every person, being unique, is irreplaceable. But Bennett was just more irreplaceable to me.

If that even makes sense.

[Jacob]

It's very haunting for me to have the realization that Progressive Rock was once appreciated and treated with respect by different groups of the youth during the 70s.

Really it was the marketing aspect that attracted different people who perhaps were not hard core supporters of Progressive Rock. Their favorite band was Humble Pie, but King Crimson were opening for them. Then teenagers who were "rockers" liked King Crimson and actually went out and bought their albums after seeing them perform.

For a few years Progressive Rock in the U.S. felt vast!! In society it felt important. The musicians I worked with in the high school band were huge fans of CTA, ELP, Yes, Gentle Giant , Renaissance, and this was an isolated town compared to the surrounding cities ..like Philadelphia for example where it was actually possible to meet another human being that listened to Guru, Guru .

In 1973 I participated in several music programs and it was insane how many keyboardists I knew who were practicing their butts off to play like Keith Emerson. When I played Battle Of The Bands there were bands performing Jethro Tull and Genesis.

They were classically trained players in their teens and formed Prog cover bands..and that just amazed me as a 16 year old.

When I think back on this happening in my life it's very haunting. It was the golden age of Rock. Rock Music was a huge part of a kid's life in several areas . Most people I knew in 73' seemed obsessed with Rock and often adapted Rock lyrics to their personal experiences. It was another lifetime and clearly an obsession.

I recall playing in Rock clubs in 76'. They were built like concert halls and people packed sardines pressing against the stage. I wasnt able to physically get to the bathroom to relieve myself unless the roadies cleared a path. That's ridiculous! And this went on 6 nights a week, traveling up and down the east coast, and I'm sitting on a tour bus holding a battery operated boom box listening to Phadrea.

My biggest letdown was in 1979 when I played some giant ballroom in Pennsylvania and I asked the DJ if he'd heard of Happy The Man. He hands me their 2 albums and says..."Here...you can have them" "People aren't listening to this kind of music anymore" "Excuse me...can you repeat that? " "I can't believe my f-en ears?" He said that I was naive.

Then when I toured the national circuit I began to notice the change. By then it was 81' and I was backing popular entertainers . I was a total frickin sell out . That's when I took notice of the venues that Renaissance were playing. I kept thinking about how they played Carnegie Hall and were on the radio more...but respected by crowds of people. Now they were playing Club Bene?

I took it all to heart. When I was too young to play in clubs and theaters Progressive Rock was huge. When I finally played the big circuits most of those bands were dying. They were becoming unheard of. They were becoming unwanted. It was depressing witnessing the bands you liked as a kid or saw on TV being neglected by the industry.

It's money. It's money that does that. I have come into being like the shadows and phantoms of the night.

[Rarebird]

It's very haunting for me to have the realization that Progressive Rock was once appreciated and treated with respect by different groups of the youth during the 70s.

Really it was the marketing aspect that attracted different people who perhaps were not hard core supporters of Progressive Rock. Their favorite band was Humble Pie, but King Crimson were opening for them. Then teenagers who were "rockers" liked King Crimson and actually went out and bought their albums after seeing them perform.

For a few years Progressive Rock in the U.S. felt vast!! In society it felt important. The musicians I worked with in the high school band were huge fans of CTA, ELP, Yes, Gentle Giant , Renaissance, and this was an isolated town compared to the surrounding cities ..like Philadelphia for example where it was actually possible to meet another human being that listened to Guru, Guru .

In 1973 I participated in several music programs and it was insane how many keyboardists I knew who were practicing their butts off to play like Keith Emerson. When I played Battle Of The Bands there were bands performing Jethro Tull and Genesis.

They were classically trained players in their teens and formed Prog cover bands..and that just amazed me as a 16 year old.

When I think back on this happening in my life it's very haunting. It was the golden age of Rock. Rock Music was a huge part of a kid's life in several areas . Most people I knew in 73' seemed obsessed with Rock and often adapted Rock lyrics to their personal experiences. It was another lifetime and clearly an obsession.

I recall playing in Rock clubs in 76'. They were built like concert halls and people packed sardines pressing against the stage. I wasnt able to physically get to the bathroom to relieve myself unless the roadies cleared a path. That's ridiculous! And this went on 6 nights a week, traveling up and down the east coast, and I'm sitting on a tour bus holding a battery operated boom box listening to Phadrea.

My biggest letdown was in 1979 when I played some giant ballroom in Pennsylvania and I asked the DJ if he'd heard of Happy The Man. He hands me their 2 albums and says..."Here...you can have them" "People aren't listening to this kind of music anymore" "Excuse me...can you repeat that? " "I can't believe my f-en ears?" He said that I was naive.

Then when I toured the national circuit I began to notice the change. By then it was 81' and I was backing popular entertainers . I was a total frickin sell out . That's when I took notice of the venues that Renaissance were playing. I kept thinking about how they played Carnegie Hall and were on the radio more...but respected by crowds of people. Now they were playing Club Bene?

I took it all to heart. When I was too young to play in clubs and theaters Progressive Rock was huge. When I finally played the big circuits most of those bands were dying. They were becoming unheard of. They were becoming unwanted. It was depressing witnessing the bands you liked as a kid or saw on TV being neglected by the industry.

It's money. It's money that does that. I have come into being like the shadows and phantoms of the night.

Times change. Music that once was fasionable isn't anymore at some moment.
People who love the jazz from the beginning of the last century are also mostly a dying breed. Jazz has changed during the times, just like rock. Classical music also has changed during the times. Learn to live with it.

[progmatist]

It's very haunting for me to have the realization that Progressive Rock was once appreciated and treated with respect by different groups of the youth during the 70s.

Really it was the marketing aspect that attracted different people who perhaps were not hard core supporters of Progressive Rock. Their favorite band was Humble Pie, but King Crimson were opening for them. Then teenagers who were "rockers" liked King Crimson and actually went out and bought their albums after seeing them perform.

For a few years Progressive Rock in the U.S. felt vast!! In society it felt important. The musicians I worked with in the high school band were huge fans of CTA, ELP, Yes, Gentle Giant , Renaissance, and this was an isolated town compared to the surrounding cities ..like Philadelphia for example where it was actually possible to meet another human being that listened to Guru, Guru .

In 1973 I participated in several music programs and it was insane how many keyboardists I knew who were practicing their butts off to play like Keith Emerson. When I played Battle Of The Bands there were bands performing Jethro Tull and Genesis.

They were classically trained players in their teens and formed Prog cover bands..and that just amazed me as a 16 year old.

When I think back on this happening in my life it's very haunting. It was the golden age of Rock. Rock Music was a huge part of a kid's life in several areas . Most people I knew in 73' seemed obsessed with Rock and often adapted Rock lyrics to their personal experiences. It was another lifetime and clearly an obsession.

I recall playing in Rock clubs in 76'. They were built like concert halls and people packed sardines pressing against the stage. I wasnt able to physically get to the bathroom to relieve myself unless the roadies cleared a path. That's ridiculous! And this went on 6 nights a week, traveling up and down the east coast, and I'm sitting on a tour bus holding a battery operated boom box listening to Phadrea.

My biggest letdown was in 1979 when I played some giant ballroom in Pennsylvania and I asked the DJ if he'd heard of Happy The Man. He hands me their 2 albums and says..."Here...you can have them" "People aren't listening to this kind of music anymore" "Excuse me...can you repeat that? " "I can't believe my f-en ears?" He said that I was naive.

Then when I toured the national circuit I began to notice the change. By then it was 81' and I was backing popular entertainers . I was a total frickin sell out . That's when I took notice of the venues that Renaissance were playing. I kept thinking about how they played Carnegie Hall and were on the radio more...but respected by crowds of people. Now they were playing Club Bene?

I took it all to heart. When I was too young to play in clubs and theaters Progressive Rock was huge. When I finally played the big circuits most of those bands were dying. They were becoming unheard of. They were becoming unwanted. It was depressing witnessing the bands you liked as a kid or saw on TV being neglected by the industry.

It's money. It's money that does that. I have come into being like the shadows and phantoms of the night.

When I was a high school freshman in 1979, if you didn't like Pink Floyd's The Wall, you weren't cool.

[Jacob]

I also would rather die... Because of the lack of talent, originality, punctuality, I've mostly been a one-man band, and I can't tell you how many times I've heard... basically, instrumentals go nowhere, especially without using trends.. Then what's the point? To sound like others is a waste of time. But after 30 years, I've been discouraged, but also decided to expand a bit - writing brass arrangements to add to old songs of mine, or new ones, or orchestral.. I'm an author, but can't seem to marry the two, so on occasion, I will hire someone I know to add vocables.

Playing live, I was lucky that my last band around here did NOT want to play the hits. Commercial bands, but mostly deep tracks... Out of the 33 songs we did for our big concert downtown, 20 of them were Steely Dan. We played a few Zep (Fool In The Rain, All My Love), Cream, Zep, Billy Joel, Beatles, Lennon, Todd Rundgren.

But I can't find a band, let alone one person.. I'd love to jam/record, and bounce ideas off each other. But I've been away from Michigan a while, and since then, the things that used to work like Craigslist, don't.... Or this music venue which was very helpful that is hardly ever open. And then other things in life happen and before long it's been a few years since I've played live. Right before COVID.

In South Jersey it's mostly unprofessional and or amateur bar bands that follow a handpicked list of songs. Led Zeppelin, CCR, Bon Jovi, ...the same old redundancy.

Hotel California by The Eagles, Disco, Modern Country...Clearly there wouldn't be anything directly wrong about liking the aforementioned.

It's wrong for me to be confined to playing that handpicked list of songs by usual suspects. Bar bands agenda revolve around that music.

Music as an art form does not follow one path. It never has. Maybe in South Jersey it does. And maybe bar hoppers not acknowledging that Rory Gallagher and Blue Oyster Cult used to pack the Spectrum in Philadelphia is their means to justify a lie or a phony situation.

I couldn't wait to get away from bar bands. The narcissist band leaders I worked for hid behind the B.S. concept that we are a team and that you must give the people what they want.

When you go against that...bar bands think that's a red flag or a slippery slope. "Oh its a slippery slope refusing to play a handpicked list" No it isn't a slippery slope...ya see that's called REASONING 😆

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

In South Jersey it's mostly unprofessional and or amateur bar bands that follow a handpicked list of songs. Led Zeppelin, CCR, Bon Jovi, ...the same old redundancy.

Hotel California by The Eagles, Disco, Modern Country...Clearly there wouldn't be anything directly wrong about liking the aforementioned....

Seriously? No Springsteen? No Twisted Sister? In Jersey?!?!?

[Jacob]

Seriously? No Springsteen? No Twisted Sister? In Jersey?!?!?

Seriously not much Springsteen at all. In South Jersey people generally like CCR, Zeppelin, Southern Rock...except they're so generally ignorant they don't acknowledge Duane Allman.

If somebody mentions Deep Purple in a bar most people react like this: " OH Deep Purple..isn't that the group that played that song called Smoke On The Water?"

Oh...Blue Oyster Cult...isn't that the group that does that song about the reaper?"

They act ignorant about the golden age of Rock but you say the wrong thing about Zeppelin or CCR and you've just offended their religion.

Playing in bars is degrading. You end up being a friendly jukebox. In the 70s and 80s if you played in Rock clubs it was way different. Much better in terms of diversity in Rock music and acknowledgement of Rock artists such as Rory Gallagher, UFO , BOC...etc Of course the times changed..but for worse..thats why I got out 😃 😀 😄 😁....In South Jersey bar bands you have too many amateurs who are egotistical . In the 70s and 80s you had to be top notch to play a Rock club . People don't give a shit what you sound like in a bar. Most of the time they don't act like they know the difference anyway ...garbage.

[Jacob]

Think of it this way ....You practice an instrument since age 7 and you take it very seriously. You practice for hours and hours. Your parents are musicians and they teach you technique. You become skilled.

Then you turn 18 and people offer you money to play because you sound professional....however you end up in a trap depending on the income because not only do you dislike the music you're playing, but it's becoming a huge redundancy.

So you practiced for hours everyday in your youth and now you're just going to waste it all away by playing songs by The Eagles for a bar full of intoxicated obnoxious drunks. Does that even make any sense? 😃

For me it wasn't fun. It was unhealthy. Enough to get on your last nerve. Can't relate to it.

[John Miner]

Glad to hear all your opinions! Please don't think I'm ready to open my wrists over people not liking old music. I really don't think anyone is missing Tony Bennett or Glenn Miller - But I actually still do. That was my parents music and was a big part of my own life. I just have very little good things to say about modern music. Except perhaps in the nooks and crannies of the Prog world.

Updates: Playing on the street in Sedona in July, I played Bohemian Rhapsody and 2 little kids - maybe 5 or 6 years old stood there and sang the whole thing with me. Apparently there is a video game that uses that song, so kids know it. Last week I was playing on the street in a tiny Texas town called Dumas just for an hour or so... Got three smiles and waves. Lots of bewildered looks, which are just as much fun.

Back in my home town, I am definitely seeing fewer people who know the music I play. It has been an extremely hot summer here in Tejas, and so older people like me are probably staying out of the 113 degree heat. I play at night and it still was regularly over 100 degrees at 9pm.

Anyway, I apologize for flittering in and out like I do. I used to regularly hang out here, but life has become oddly, more busy, so I just dont have the bandwidth to do everything I would like. Including reading the arguments over the latest Yes release. - Wait... Is there one???? ...533 pages later...

I completely and 100% relate to what you are saying. It's really does feel like a dying breed. But that being said, I think in a way it has been a self inflicted slow death. I believe the classic era of prog died because the great bands of that era just stopped making great music. Not that is was necessarily "bad" but just not what they had done before. ELP Love Beach, Gentle Giant "Giant for a Day"... even Zeppelin "In Through the Out Door".. and of course the post Hackett Genesis.. Oh, and Tull's "A".. just rubbish in my opinion. Floyd's "Final Cut" etc.. I know there are folks that argue those are their favorite albums etc.. but I don't think anyone is really going to argue that Tormato was the great work of YES.. better than Close the the Edge or Relayer etc. Crimson sort of kept it together with their 80's stuff which was objectively very high quality music... cannot deny that. But the rest of them.. a lot of mediocre releases at best.

My belief is that a real band is a live gigging band. The stay at home, make a record in your basement stuff, to me, that is not a band. It's a product, yes, a work of art, yes, like a painting or sculpture. These are two different worlds. All the great prog bands, to me, were also great live acts. YES, Genesis, ELP, Tull, Pink Floyd, or even obscure stuff like Henry Cow, Art Bears, they were also live acts.

I think what has been dying are the great, creative and original live acts.

In the old days, bands had more options for playing live, venues were much more open to a wide variety of acts and sounds. Today, if I go out to see local live acts (Bay Area SF) I already know what I am going to see before I get there. Punk bands, metal bands, 80's synth remashes, 90's alternative high energy frat rock, folky singer songwriter stuff with a rudimentary rhythm section. Then fusions of that stuff, like a metal band with a hint of ska or reggae that they think they are doing something cutting edge etc.. then of course the predicable blues and funk stuff. This is all the "original stuff. I'm not even talking about cover or tribute bands.

I don't go out to see live music much because I don't find it interesting, creative or good. I don't blame others for their lack of interest in live music.

I believe that for the most part, the music of the past was much better. More authentic, more creatively inspired, and better performances. Even better sounds and sound systems. While a pain in the ass to haul around, a real Hammond Organ with a Leslie cabinet (or two) sounds better than the keyboard that has those samples programed into them. Tube amps, all that stuff, it just sounds great. Not convenient, and most musicians pass on that now. The new gear is convenient, but not better. Not at all better to my ears.

I am not saying there are no good bands. A lot of these bands are very good at rehashing these genres, but to my ears, it's a bore. Very rarely do I see something that excites and inspires me.

On top of that, are the ticket prices. Yes, I understand inflation etc, but I have a two ticket stubs from a concert my older sister saw in 1969.
Led Zeppelin for $5, and The Who for $7. Now tickets are 100 times that or more. It's absurd and I won't pay it.

I remember seeing Black Sabbath in Los Angeles. I cut three lawns and had the money to go. Now if I cut three lawns, I might have $100, not $500 or $5000. Day on the Green, Bill Graham was $15 and I could see Santana, Fleetwood Mac, AC/DC, Robin Trower, and Golden Earring.

So this is a huge problem.

I don't think it's any "one" thing, but a combination of many things that has led to the current situation.

That all being said, I am doing my best to stay positive and bring quality music into the live scene, I have my theories, and to some degree, it's working a bit.

[Rarebird]

I completely and 100% relate to what you are saying. It's really does feel like a dying breed. But that being said, I think in a way it has been a self inflicted slow death. I believe the classic era of prog died because the great bands of that era just stopped making great music. Not that is was necessarily "bad" but just not what they had done before. ELP Love Beach, Gentle Giant "Giant for a Day"... even Zeppelin "In Through the Out Door".. and of course the post Hackett Genesis.. Oh, and Tull's "A".. just rubbish in my opinion. Floyd's "Final Cut" etc.. I know there are folks that argue those are their favorite albums etc.. but I don't think anyone is really going to argue that Tormato was the great work of YES.. better than Close the the Edge or Relayer etc. Crimson sort of kept it together with their 80's stuff which was objectively very high quality music... cannot deny that. But the rest of them.. a lot of mediocre releases at best.

My belief is that a real band is a live gigging band. The stay at home, make a record in your basement stuff, to me, that is not a band. It's a product, yes, a work of art, yes, like a painting or sculpture. These are two different worlds. All the great prog bands, to me, were also great live acts. YES, Genesis, ELP, Tull, Pink Floyd, or even obscure stuff like Henry Cow, Art Bears, they were also live acts.

I think what has been dying are the great, creative and original live acts.

In the old days, bands had more options for playing live, venues were much more open to a wide variety of acts and sounds. Today, if I go out to see local live acts (Bay Area SF) I already know what I am going to see before I get there. Punk bands, metal bands, 80's synth remashes, 90's alternative high energy frat rock, folky singer songwriter stuff with a rudimentary rhythm section. Then fusions of that stuff, like a metal band with a hint of ska or reggae that they think they are doing something cutting edge etc.. then of course the predicable blues and funk stuff. This is all the "original stuff. I'm not even talking about cover or tribute bands.

I don't go out to see live music much because I don't find it interesting, creative or good. I don't blame others for their lack of interest in live music.

I believe that for the most part, the music of the past was much better. More authentic, more creatively inspired, and better performances. Even better sounds and sound systems. While a pain in the ass to haul around, a real Hammond Organ with a Leslie cabinet (or two) sounds better than the keyboard that has those samples programed into them. Tube amps, all that stuff, it just sounds great. Not convenient, and most musicians pass on that now. The new gear is convenient, but not better. Not at all better to my ears.

I am not saying there are no good bands. A lot of these bands are very good at rehashing these genres, but to my ears, it's a bore. Very rarely do I see something that excites and inspires me.

On top of that, are the ticket prices. Yes, I understand inflation etc, but I have a two ticket stubs from a concert my older sister saw in 1969.
Led Zeppelin for $5, and The Who for $7. Now tickets are 100 times that or more. It's absurd and I won't pay it.

I remember seeing Black Sabbath in Los Angeles. I cut three lawns and had the money to go. Now if I cut three lawns, I might have $100, not $500 or $5000. Day on the Green, Bill Graham was $15 and I could see Santana, Fleetwood Mac, AC/DC, Robin Trower, and Golden Earring.

So this is a huge problem.

I don't think it's any "one" thing, but a combination of many things that has led to the current situation.

That all being said, I am doing my best to stay positive and bring quality music into the live scene, I have my theories, and to some degree, it's working a bit.

I have to say, I don't agree at all. You sound like my dad, who used to say that jazz ended somewhere aroud 1930, 1935. Everything that came after that was not jazz in his opinion.
Music changes, that's a fact. It has always changed and it willl always keep changing. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's rubbish. I personally like A. It has Eddie Jobson on keyboards and violin, which makes it worthwhile.
Some artists will be forgotten and others will stay around in the hearts of people. I hear a lot of old stuff, from the 60s, 70s and 80s on the radio. And you never know what will survive. Bach was only second, or third choice for his position in Leipzig. The composer who they really wanted for the position is almost forgotten. And look at Salieri, who had better positions than Mozart. And who is well-known now? Not Salieri, who is mainly known for his so-called feud with Mozart, though he teached Mozart's children and also Beethoven.

And if we are talking about ticketprices. There are several things at work. How many man-hours did it take to build a car in the 60s, 70s, or 80s and how many man-hours does it take now? But for a concert you still need the same amount of people, so no wonder, things get more expensive. My first synthesizer, a Roland System 100 model 101, cost me 2,000 gulden (which now would probably translate to € 2,000, correcting for inflation). My Nord G2 Engine has cost me € 899 and my Nord Electro has cost me 1,599. What would you have to pay for having the same possibilities in the 60s or 70s? The Behringer MS-5, which is a clone of the Roland SH-5, which I dreamed about when I was young is listed for € 599. So those prices has gone down. And then there are VST-instruments, which are even cheaper and sometimes free. And the free stuff can be pretty good, for instance the Cherry Audio Synthesizer Expander Module.
Besides, in the past artists did concerts to promote their records, that was where the real money was. Now there is hardly money to be made from album sales, so more income has to come from concerts.
And well, you can't compare ticket prices from artists on their way up with those of established artists. In the end it's a market thing. There is much demand and little supply, so prices go up.

And well, there are less possibilities to do live performances. An artist has to make a name for himself before people are willing to go to a concert.

[John Miner]

I have to say, I don't agree at all. You sound like my dad, who used to say that jazz ended somewhere aroud 1930, 1935. Everything that came after that was not jazz in his opinion.

Curious as the why your dad said jazz ended in 1935. Did he have examples of why this was?
I could see a justification for 1956 or before "Kind of Blue".

[Rarebird]

Curious as the why your dad said jazz ended in 1935. Did he have examples of why this was?
I could see a justification for 1956 or before "Kind of Blue".

Because he didn't like anything that came after it, like swing, be-bop, postbop and whatever. He even cancelled his subscription on a magazine, dedicated to traditional jazz, because it also wrote about stuff recorded after 1935. That's where the Brian Rust discographies seem to end. He had a whole collection of those, which are now under my bed.

[Nijinsky Hind]

1935?? Bix era jazz ? Dixieland Jazz? Did he like Ellington ? Satch? Or Charlie Parker? Personally I don’t like the old jazz. But I appreciate Miles, Ornette Coleman, Eric Dolphy. The pacific jazz bunch like baker, mulligan, Desmond I found dull.

1935 is going back a ways.

[battema]

I have to say, I don't agree at all. You sound like my dad, who used to say that jazz ended somewhere aroud 1930, 1935. Everything that came after that was not jazz in his opinion.
Music changes, that's a fact. It has always changed and it willl always keep changing. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's rubbish.

FWIW and it should come as no surprise but I agree with you (except my dad wasn't much a jazz head).