2023 Women's World Cup

[Hal...]

Lauren Hemp's run, then the stunning "no look" reverse pass to Russo (who, by the way, finished brilliantly) - highlight of this World Cup for me.

After Ellen White retired and then Beth Mead was injured, I had concerns for England. But Hemp and Russo have really stepped into their roles, haven't they?

I actually thought Australia out played England in the second half. They just could not convert. And Hemp and Russo showed how dangerous they can be. Well, I've said before that Hemp is one of the best forwards in the world and Russo has played really well this WC.

I'm glad they won but I found myself rooting for whoever had the ball. As much as I love England, I would have been thrilled if Australia won. It's a shame one of them had to lose.

[interbellum]

I'm glad they won but I found myself rooting for whoever had the ball. As much as I love England, I would have been thrilled if Australia won. It's a shame one of them had to lose.

I had the same emotions (despite that the English coach is from Holland). Well, it's an all European final then.

[Hal...]

I had the same emotions (despite that the English coach is from Holland). Well, it's an all European final then.

I think many of us got caught up in Matilda Mania. I know I did.

Speaking of Wiegman, she's a hell of a coach. She turned Ned around from an "also played" to winning the Euros in 2017. She then took them to the final in the '19 WWC. She had a 72% winning record with that team. Of course, it didn't hurt that she had one of the two or three best strikers in the world (Vivanne Miedema)*.

She was then signed by England and takes them to the 2021 Euros where they won it all. And now she's taken them to the WWC final in '23. She has a 79% winning record there.

*I should clarify something: my comment about Miedema isn't entirely fair. After the '21 Euros, England lost two exceptional strikers in Ellen White (retired) and Beth Mead (injured) and England is still one of the top three teams in the world. And I think that's mostly due to Wiegman.

So, my question for you is, how much did it piss off Nederlanders that England poached Wiegman?

[Rarebird]

I think many of us got caught up in Matilda Mania. I know I did.

Speaking of Wiegman, she's a hell of a coach. She turned Ned around from an "also played" to winning the Euros in 2017. She then took them to the final in the '19 WWC. She had a 72% winning record with that team. Of course, it didn't hurt that she had one of the two or three best strikers in the world (Vivanne Miedema)*.

She was then signed by England and takes them to the 2021 Euros where they won it all. And now she's taken them to the WWC final in '23. She has a 79% winning record there.

*I should clarify something: my comment about Miedema isn't entirely fair. After the '21 Euros, England lost two exceptional strikers in Ellen White (retired) and Beth Mead (injured) and England is still one of the top three teams in the world. And I think that's mostly due to Wiegman.

So, my question for you is, how much did it piss off Nederlanders that England poached Wiegman?

I don't know. Coaches depard. it is probably not that different when Guus Hiddink coaching South Korea at some point. Judging from what I read, it is more pride in that she has reached the finals again. If the team wins, she might become dame.

[interbellum]

Speaking of Wiegman, she's a hell of a coach. She turned Ned around from an "also played" to winning the Euros in 2017. She then took them to the final in the '19 WWC. She had a 72% winning record with that team. Of course, it didn't hurt that she had one of the two or three best strikers in the world (Vivanne Miedema)*.

She was then signed by England and takes them to the 2021 Euros where they won it all. And now she's taken them to the WWC final in '23. She has a 79% winning record there.

*I should clarify something: my comment about Miedema isn't entirely fair. After the '21 Euros, England lost two exceptional strikers in Ellen White (retired) and Beth Mead (injured) and England is still one of the top three teams in the world. And I think that's mostly due to Wiegman.

So, my question for you is, how much did it piss off Nederlanders that England poached Wiegman?

I guess we're used to it. It happens with good players since ages. It's where the money is (and it's not in The Netherlands). It can make you proud when they have succes, but don't forget a lot of coaches and players fail when they go to the richer competitions abroad.
Remember Ajax a couple of years ago? They almost made it to the final of the European CL and after that all those rich clubs bought the best players, just to make Ajax a weaker team, not to make their own team better. Of course there are exceptions like Wiegman and (maybe) Ten Hag.

[Hal...]

I guess we're used to it. It happens with good players since ages. It's where the money is (and it's not in The Netherlands). It can make you proud when they have succes, but don't forget a lot of coaches and players fail when they go to the richer competitions abroad.
Remember Ajax a couple of years ago? They almost made it to the final of the European CL and after that all those rich clubs bought the best players, just to make Ajax a weaker team, not to make their own team better. Of course there are exceptions like Wiegman and (maybe) Ten Hag.

I understood about half of that. I feel like you're speaking Dutch.

[moecurlythanu]

^ I think I understood it all, but can't help but thinking Ten Hag is an unfortunate name for a women's soccer team.

[Rarebird]

^ I think I understood it all, but can't help but thinking Ten Hag is an unfortunate name for a women's soccer team.

Ten Hag used to be a trainer with Ajax I think. He is the manager of Manchester
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_ten_Hag

[moecurlythanu]

^ Well then I didn't understand it, thank you! I didn't realize that was an individual.

[interbellum]

Ten Hag used to be a trainer with Ajax I think. He is the manager of Manchester
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_ten_Hag

Yes, you're right Renate. I wrote that he may be succesful as a coach of Manchester United, but only the future will tell. The first season he did oké.

[interbellum]

I understood about half of that. I feel like you're speaking Dutch.

Which half did you understand?

I guess I wanted to explain a bit too much at once. What I ment is that we're used to it when richer countries (like England) or richer teams (like Manchester United) buy the best players and coaches from Dutch teams since a long time. It started when competitions in England, Germany and Spain where getting a whole lot of more money for their tv-rights on commercial stations than the Dutch competition.

[Rarebird]

Which half did you understand?

I guess I wanted to explain a bit too much at once. What I ment is that we're used to it when richer countries (like England) or richer teams (like Manchester United) buy the best players and coaches from Dutch teams since a long time. It started when competitions in England, Germany and Spain where getting a whole lot of more money for their tv-rights on commercial stations than the Dutch competition.

Yeah, we are used to players and coaches moving to foreign teams. Louis van Gaal also coached in England. I think he was famous for his Dunglisch.

[Hal...]

Which half did you understand?

All of it, actually. It was just the names at the end I was unfamiliar with (other than Wiegman) so I made a joke and hoped I'd make you laugh.

[Hal...]

So did anyone see the Australia - Sweden match? Sweden won 2-nil.

Sweden dominated for the first 15 minutes of each half but Australia would get back into it and didn't do too badly at all. Although, I thought their back line made too many mistakes. Their midfield was solid as hell, though, especially Katrina Gorry and Kyra Cooney-Cross. Mary Fowler, a forward, helped out in the midfield a great deal and was able to feed the wingers and Sam Kerr some nice passes. They just couldn't convert.


As for the final, I have no idea how that's going to turn out. Spain is known for dominating possession and their recovery after losing possession is pretty quick. They also have two or three creative strikers. Ari Hingst and Carly Lloyd have both picked Spain to win. In fact, they picked Spain even before the tournament started.

But I don't think you can count England out. Their back line is one of the best in the world, as is their left back (Lucy Bronze), their right back (Rachel Daly) normally plays as a forward and averaged a goal a match last season in the WSL (fyi, that's unheard of!) and is a hell of a defender, and their "6" (Keira Walsh) is arguably the best. And many people think Mary Earps is the best goalkeeper. They also have one of the best midfielders in the world (Georgia Stanway), who is good on both offense and defense. As I've mentioned previously, England lost two of the best strikers ever, one to retirement (Ellen White) and one to injury (Beth Mead), but Lauren Hemp, Alessia Russo, and Lauren James have picked up the slack. In fact, James was suspended for the last two matches and Hemp and Russo both scored in both the quarter and semi-finals, iirc. Still, James has some serious talent and she'll be back for this match.

This could very well be the best match of the tournament if England doesn't let Spain hog the ball.

Go Lionesses!

[Hal...]

I forgot a couple of things:

England defeated Spain last summer in the Euros.

The match starts at 8:00 p.m. in Sydney, noon in central Europe, 6:00 a.m. eastern (US), 5:00 a.m. central, and 3:00 a.m. Pacific. So if you can't watch it live, find a way to record it. If you can't record it, go to bed now and get up early. It's going to be a hell of a match.

[interbellum]

Saw the second half and think the best one won.

[Hal...]

Agreed. That was hugely disappointing.

I think England lost for two reasons, primarily:
1. Strategy. Sarina Wiegman should have recognized halfway (or sooner) through the first half that her 3-5-2 formation was not the right one and should have shifted them to a 4-4-3, which she finally did in the second half. Hell, the way Spain was playing from the outset, SW should have shifted them to a 5-3-2. It was almost as if she and her coaching staff didn't even scout Spain, who clearly outplayed them. And at half time, when she made her substitutions, she took out Rachel Daley, who I thought made some terrific defensive plays. I also felt SW waited too long to bring on Beth England.

2. The officiating. From almost the beginning you could see it was going to be a rough game (the commentators here in the US even mentioned it). Spain was playing England very hard. In fact, in a second half they didn't even call the foul on Lauren James, which it clearly was. That officiating crew sucked. I guess FIFA told them to "let them play". Btw, when did pulling on an opponent's arm become okay? I don't see it as any different than pulling on their shirt. And they never fucking call it!

[per anporth]

Although the ref was poor (she has actually been amongst the poorest in the tournament), the officials weren't the reason England lost.

I think that the first goal was crucial - scoring enabled Spain to play in their comfort zone, & dominate possession without having to push for goals. Had Kemp's strike gone in, the dynamic might have been very different.

England's defence & attack have been superb throughout - but Walsh, Toone & Stanway have all been below par - & in the final, this midfield simply couldn't compete with the superior Spanish midfield. In particular, they couldn't cope with the Spanish press, largely because the midfield just weren't strong enough in possession. As a consequence, they started to go long very early, & simply ceded possession.

Although Bronze was at fault for Spain's goal - Carmona was able to run into exactly the position Bronze would otherwise have been defending - what was striking was not only the way she was closed down in midfield, but how she had no passing options - Daly should have been tracking her run, to provide an out-ball wide with a simple square pass; Walsh should have been available for a simple pass back; & Stanway should have been available for a pass forward. But none of these three were in position, which exposed Bronze to the Spanish midfield press.

Bonmatí & Paralluelo were both outstanding, & together, they made the difference between the Spain of last year's Euros & this year's World Cup - they now have a decisive cutting edge to complement their superb possession football.

[Munster]

^^^ Good points in the last two posts. It was a hugely enjoyable game to watch and the 90 minutes (plus the extra 13) flashed by. What was most surprising to me was the openness of play throughout. The final game in every men’s World Cup I have watched (admittedly as a neutral) have been largely turgid affairs, with both sides overly cautious and nervy. Yesterday’s game was totally different and - surprisingly to me, at least - showed the men up.

[Shadow]

Hours after Olga Carmona scored the winning goal for Spain in the Women's World Cup final, Spanish soccer officials announced the death of her father.

[per anporth]

Something to bear in mind about the Spanish team - they were without fifteen key players, who withdrew in dispute with the Spanish football authorities. (They almost certainly won in spite of the coach!) Their teams are champions at all junior age groups. The depth of talent is on a whole different level to the rest of the world.

[Hal...]

^ From Just Women's Sports:

Spain’s ball movement during its World Cup title win caught the eye of U.S. women’s national team great Julie Foudy.

One user on X lamented during the match that the U.S. used to move the ball like Spain. Foudy responded, saying the comment was “very kind” but incorrect.

“We have never moved the ball like Spain does,” she wrote. “Their grace on the ball is gorgeous to watch.”

[Hal...]

USWNT Loses No. 1 Ranking Weeks After World Cup Ouster
Totally unsurprising.

What was surprising to me is that Sweden jumped to #1 and Spain to only #2 while the US dropped to #3 and England stayed at #4.

That prompted me to go read how FIFA calculates rankings. Looking at the current rankings and comparing previous rankings, I think their formula needs some work.

For two examples, Australia, who was one of the home teams, dropped from #10 to #11. That seems strange considering they made it to the bronze metal match. From my perspective, they should have earned points, not lost them.

The other example is that Japan, who was ranked #11, jumped to #8. Recall that Japan was knocked out in the Round of 16 and yet they earned over 44 points.

I think the biggest indicator that the formula needs work is what happened to England. Prior to the Euros, England was ranked #8. Because they won, they earned 57 points and improved their ranking, as they should have, and maintained their #4 ranking going into the WWC. However, they made it to the final and yet lost 10 points! WTF? This is messed up, especially when you consider that their record in the qualification tournament was 10-0-0 with a goal differential of +80!!!

Here's something else I wonder about: in FIFA's article about how they calculate rankings, venue is taken into consideration, whether it's a home venue (for one team) or a neutral one. And since the home team wins 66% of the time, a win won't garner them quite as many points than if they were playing on a neutral field or were the away team. So as you would expect, an away team will garner more points for a win than if they win at a neutral venue.

Now, here's my big question:

Perhaps you noticed prior to a match that one team was designated home and the other away, even though they were playing on a neutral field. Did those designations factor in to how many points a team earned if they won?

Anyway, in my opinion, this is how the rankings should look:

1. Spain
2. England
3. Sweden
4. USA
5. France
6. Germany
7. Netherlands
8. Australia
9. Japan
10. Brazil

Btw, if Spain continues the way they have for the past couple years, they're going to be the team to beat for the next decade. Or at least until England gets Beth Mead and some others back and the US learns how to play football.