Apparently The New York Dolls revolutionized rock'n'roll as seen from "now"

[moecurlythanu]

^ "breaking the form," which is exactly what Prog-Rock did, but I guess that didn't count.

[arturs]

^ "breaking the form," which is exactly what Prog-Rock did, but I guess that didn't count.

And... Which is exactly what bands like the NY Dolls never did... I don't mean to bust on them any more than I already have. If I saw a band like the Dolls in a packed club I would probably go home having enjoyed myself. The band does know how to rock and they do that well. But "breaking the form"... You gotta be kidding me. As Piskie and others have pointed out, it's about the rock critics/writers and the reaction more than about the band themselves.

BTW, I'll leave you with this... I had completely forgotten about it. It came up while I was watching some Dolls live stuff. While I'm impressed by DJ as a performer and entertainer, it also makes me think that all his acts were just shtick to him. I'm surprised all the critics didn't throw him overboard after this, frankly.

[GuitarGeek]

And... Which is exactly what bands like the NY Dolls never did... I don't mean to bust on them any more than I already have. If I saw a band like the Dolls in a packed club I would probably go home having enjoyed myself. The band does know how to rock and they do that well. But "breaking the form"... You gotta be kidding me. As Piskie and others have pointed out, it's about the rock critics/writers and the reaction more than about the band themselves.

BTW, I'll leave you with this... I had completely forgotten about it. It came up while I was watching some Dolls live stuff. While I'm impressed by DJ as a performer and entertainer, it also makes me think that all his acts were just shtick to him. I'm surprised all the critics didn't throw him overboard after this, frankly.

The best part about that was the intro to the video, where he acknowledges his adrogynous past. I remember readnig in Rolling Stone where they asked him where he got all those NYD albums he holds up. Apparently, they were really shit hot in Japan (isn't everyone?), and the Japanese ended up putting out a live album and a "best of the leftovers" record and probably a best or two.

But this is still my favourite Johansen thing:

[Dana5140]

Wikipedia has this interesting comment on DJ: "In October 2007, Johansen participated in "The Staten Island Composers Project", featuring work by three musicians who call the island home: Johansen; Vernon Reid, founder of the '80s rock-metal pioneers Living Colour; and Galt MacDermot, best known as the composer of the musical Hair. The Council on the Arts and Humanities for Staten Island commissioned the program and asked each artist to write 20 minutes of music conveying something of his connection to the island often referred to as New York City's forgotten borough. Johansen's opus, a cinematic and unabashedly romantic Adagio scored mostly for strings, is called "Mara Dreams the Moon Gate of Uncommon Beauty". Inspired by The Moon Gate of Uncommon Beauty, a round portal between two rockscapes in the Chinese Scholar's Garden at the Staten Island Botanical Garden. In September 2009, he appeared on Anthony Bourdain: No Reservations, the Travel Channel television program, in which he toured Staten Island with the program's host. "

[moecurlythanu]

"Funky But Chic" is a cool song. Wasn't that Johansen?

[3LockBox]

Frankly, your loss. Some punk bands were as progressive, in the root sense, as any prog band. See, for example, The Clash's Sandinista! album and, to a lesser extent, London Calling; or the Cardiacs, who are often boosted in these pages; or the Dead Kennedys' Plastic Surgery Disasters.

Sure, there were bands who couldn't play for beans, and even some who could, couldn't write a decent song. I'll even say there were a lot of them.

But ... look up "Sturgeon's Law," from which my handle derives.

Never judge a genre by its worst, or most popular (often the same thing), examples.

My post wasn't meant to be a critique or value judgement of punk. I just never was into it per se. Most of the punk I was ever aware of was what little of it made it to the mainstream. The examples you gave were somewhat mainstream and in a lot of guys collection who wouldn't consider themselves punk. I owned London Calling as well as Catholic Boy by the Jim Carroll Band, Black Flag, Meat Puppets albums (tapes) and a few other 'punk' bands or at least, punk to me. But I wouldn't have considered myself "into punk" just because i owned a few albums no more than I'd say I was into reggae because i owned a couple Bob Marley albums. I usually bought an album because something about it tickled my fancy.

Every genre has its symbolism or substance.

[pb2015]

"Funky But Chic" is a cool song. Wasn't that Johansen?

Correct

[abc123]

MC5? Well, raw heavy, with tones of punk, is very very rare for me, such as when I rarely put on the first two Iron Maiden albums and even those two are hard-edged only up to a point... but okay sometime in the future I shall check out a song or two from MC5...Thx

Actually I'm not going to bother but thanks anyway. In addition to their sound being really out of my scope of interest as I already described twice by now (near the beginning of thread, and later when responding above), I remembered from 20 years ago what vh1's snippet for them was like. Even my interest in the (relatively less intense) IM albums I talked about is pretty much due to having heard them as a teenager a long time ago, and so half of that interest is nostalgia, and rare too. Well, that's it for me on this thread then, thanks, shouldn't have entered this thread at all, not my topic of interest. Thanks for listening.

[Trane]

Actually I'm not going to bother but thanks anyway. In addition to their sound being really out of my scope of interest as I already described twice by now (near the beginning of thread, and later when responding above), I remembered from 20 years ago what vh1's snippet for them was like. Even my interest in the (relatively less intense) IM albums I talked about is pretty much due to having heard them as a teenager a long time ago, and so half of that interest is nostalgia, and rare too. Well, that's it for me on this thread then, thanks, shouldn't have entered this thread at all, not my topic of interest. Thanks for listening.

TBH, not wanting to investigate such a historically important and influential band like %C5 is a mistake, if only in general rock culture , but general culture in general.

Part of the 68 civil Rights fight with John Sinclair's Guitar Army book: not the most intelligible book, but oh so ever important in revolutionizing the occidental still-conservative early 60's into a totally freed - or so it seemed - 70's.

Detroit 68 is just as important as Chicago 68 or Kent State 68 or Haight-Ashbury 67 - not to mention of course the Macolm X & ML King dates we can think of.