Adaptation in the Contemporary Music Climate

[John Miner]

Can you provide a link to your YouTube page?

Right now we have 16 songs we play and improvise off. A lot of the more proggy stuff, or more heavy fusion stuff I kept off this video, because the reality
is that most music "booking" folks might be slightly or really turned off by the more "outside the box" stuff we do... Like this video that we used to enter a music video contest. I would NOT send this to a dinner club.. lol
(Vertigo)


In a live situation, I really try to read the room, and with the smaller gigs, it's very easy to do, by just looking around and feeling the reaction from the audience. Live playing is a very organic, real and direct experience for both us and the audience. If a few people are really digging some of the 5/4 grooves etc.. then I might call out a tune in 13/8 or the link I posted above (Vertigo) in 11/8 that our followers enjoy, but I might not play them at the dinner club if we only get a positive response from the countryish tune with slide guitar or the reggaeish tune we do, which are typically crowd pleasers to a more conservative audience. As Bill mentioned.. "Stealth" is a very real thing we are in collusion with!

It does feel like we are always walking a tightrope of sorts. From an artistic standpoint, I feel a responsibility to put our best foot forward and be true to ourselves as a band, and perform what we genuinely enjoy and feel passionate about. On the other hand, if we are being paid well, we are in a sense an employee of the booking agent or club owner and should deliver what they likely want (understandably). If we are doing a free gig, then we absolutely do what we want. In this dinner gig, I probably will keep Vertigo and Consequences of Infinity (A very abstract prog/fusion piece) off the menu lol.

[John Miner]

Andy Edwards released this today on his channel. Maybe he's here and saw this thread? Possible?
Seems more than a coincidence...

[John Miner]

A general question here:

Is a single iphone recording of a live performance, then posted on youtube beneficial? In other words, if you own a club or venue and are looking to book bands, would you rather see that or a more professional three camera shoot on a soundstage that doesn't really capture a live performance?

[Sputnik]

A general question here:

Is a single iphone recording of a live performance, then posted on youtube beneficial? In other words, if you own a club or venue and are looking to book bands, would you rather see that or a more professional three camera shoot on a soundstage that doesn't really capture a live performance?

My sense is that live video is preferable. Some phone video can be quite good, even the audio, but if you can manage it, set up a camera or two at a gig and get a board mix. It's not hard to sync it all up for a demo song or two. That's what my Tull tribute band did, and those videos are well received in pro-level venues.

My Latin jazz band uses a single camera and that camera's audio. For smaller level gigs, that has proven enough, and they actually look and sound quite good. This approach also captures the audience reaction, which I think brings a certain life to the videos.

Bill

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[John Miner]

My sense is that live video is preferable. Some phone video can be quite good, even the audio, but if you can manage it, set up a camera or two at a gig and get a board mix. It's not hard to sync it all up for a demo song or two. That's what my Tull tribute band did, and those videos are well received in pro-level venues.

My Latin jazz band uses a single camera and that camera's audio. For smaller level gigs, that has proven enough, and they actually look and sound quite good. This approach also captures the audience reaction, which I think brings a certain life to the videos.

Bill

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

Do you have a link or two you can share or post here?

[Sputnik]

Do you have a link or two you can share or post here?

There's a video montage from a recent Nectar show here: https://nectaracoustic.com/listen

There are videos from an early Minstrels show here: https://www.minstrels.gallery/videos...-video-samples

Each were shot using the different methods I described above.

Bill

[John Miner]

There's a video montage from a recent Nectar show here: https://nectaracoustic.com/listen

There are videos from an early Minstrels show here: https://www.minstrels.gallery/videos...-video-samples

Each were shot using the different methods I described above.

Bill

Thanks for posting those. It's helpful to see that.

We have a gig tonight, a 2 hour set of all original fusion/prog type stuff with a few other things. Drums, bass, guitar, saxophone doing
instrumental music. It's an "ArtWalk" sponsored by the city and I suppose they support the idea of more creative things going on down there.. as we keep getting called every month to play. Typically it's an artsy/hippie/Deadhead crowd that seems to gravitate towards us. We go on after a groovie funk/RnB band that is really good. Maybe I'll bring an iphone down there and try to record some of it... see what happens.

[Sputnik]

Thanks for posting those. It's helpful to see that.

We have a gig tonight, a 2 hour set of all original fusion/prog type stuff with a few other things. Drums, bass, guitar, saxophone doing
instrumental music. It's an "ArtWalk" sponsored by the city and I suppose they support the idea of more creative things going on down there.. as we keep getting called every month to play. Typically it's an artsy/hippie/Deadhead crowd that seems to gravitate towards us. We go on after a groovie funk/RnB band that is really good. Maybe I'll bring an iphone down there and try to record some of it... see what happens.

No reason not to give it a shot. We played a coffee house recently and shot some video that came out great sound-wise. Sadly, our drummer's head was cut off (in the video, not in real life ), so we probably wont use any of it, but you never know what results you might get in different venues. Outdoor can often sound very good on inexpensive equipment.

I just got home from a gig in downtown Springfield, MA, in a venue that was literally hell for sound... very high ceilings, concrete floors. As bad as all that was, the place was packed and people loved the show... and we got paid playing music that we actually enjoy (though I wouldn't consider it Prog, or really even Fusion).

If you get any good video, post some. I'd like to see some full tunes, not just the montage.

Bill

[John Miner]

No reason not to give it a shot. We played a coffee house recently and shot some video that came out great sound-wise. Sadly, our drummer's head was cut off (in the video, not in real life ), so we probably wont use any of it, but you never know what results you might get in different venues. Outdoor can often sound very good on inexpensive equipment.

I just got home from a gig in downtown Springfield, MA, in a venue that was literally hell for sound... very high ceilings, concrete floors. As bad as all that was, the place was packed and people loved the show... and we got paid playing music that we actually enjoy (though I wouldn't consider it Prog, or really even Fusion).

If you get any good video, post some. I'd like to see some full tunes, not just the montage.

Bill

We didn't get any video... not from us. I did see a few people shooting us with iphones, but didn't know who they were, and by the time we were done, they were gone. The gig was good, we played really well and people like us it seems. A lot of young people complimented us and one said "you guys are real music".

[John Miner]

We just got booked to play the huge 4th of July Festival in the Bay Area on the Waterfront. Thousands of people are going to be exposed to odd metered prog jazz fusion music!

It is possible.

We also got another gig on June 22nd at a club playing with cool surf rock band.
I just have to believe it's important to get out and play live, and if prog and fusion etc is what you love, then it's a noble cause
to get out and play live.

Yes? No?

[John Miner]

Blue Cinema hits stage around 10 pm.
Prog, fusion and gigging with a rock band and a surf rock band with a great guitar player who has an Eric Johnson style/tone.

Anyone in the Bay Area and want to see a quality show tonight come on out.

We are going to try to get a 3 camera shoot of Blue Cinema if all goes well. It's a good venue that has a history of booking prog bands alongside typical bands if that makes sense.

prog.jpg

[John Miner]

Can you provide a link to your YouTube page?

One of the nice folks sent me these clips today from yesterday's performance.
The fourth of July Festival here attracts a very wide swath of the community. About every race and culture. It's not attended by a slim slice of "jazz or prog" fans. It's really more like performing in a Walmart parking lot.

It was really interesting to see how many folks would just stop in their tracks and stare. Not sure if it's confusion or they know they are just seeing something unusual. Lots and lots of iphones coming out from people that would typically NOT fit the look of what you would think would be attracted to jazz/rock/fusion etc. There was guy from a well known cover band that I spoke with after our set that seemed completely confused as to why we were booked and his band wasn't. He said he had "given up" or original music years ago for a host of the typical reasons you hear over and over.

The "Gypsy" dancers who were wandering around the festival just gravitated to our music and stayed for the whole set. It was a pleasant surprise. I guess you just never know what is going to happen.

One of the big promoters in the Bay Area was quizzing me after the set asking where we were playing and if were were just a group of "weekend warriors" and actually he was a bit arrogant and seemed to want to give me advice on what we "should" be doing. We exchanged info, and will see what happens. I pretended I was interested in what he was saying, but to be honest, I really couldn't care less. He either likes or gets what we are doing or doesn't.

My takeaway is really that bands also need to put out music that is original and interesting, regardless of their genre, and I keep being surprised by the audience response to music the experts tell us all we are not supposed to like.

At this point, we aren't selling or promoting our music on streaming platforms or CD. We are just focusing on playing live and having a direct interaction with people around our area.

[SteveSly]

One of the nice folks sent me these clips today from yesterday's performance.
The fourth of July Festival here attracts a very wide swath of the community. About every race and culture. It's not attended by a slim slice of "jazz or prog" fans. It's really more like performing in a Walmart parking lot.

It was really interesting to see how many folks would just stop in their tracks and stare. Not sure if it's confusion or they know they are just seeing something unusual. Lots and lots of iphones coming out from people that would typically NOT fit the look of what you would think would be attracted to jazz/rock/fusion etc. There was guy from a well known cover band that I spoke with after our set that seemed completely confused as to why we were booked and his band wasn't. He said he had "given up" or original music years ago for a host of the typical reasons you hear over and over.

The "Gypsy" dancers who were wandering around the festival just gravitated to our music and stayed for the whole set. It was a pleasant surprise. I guess you just never know what is going to happen.

One of the big promoters in the Bay Area was quizzing me after the set asking where we were playing and if were were just a group of "weekend warriors" and actually he was a bit arrogant and seemed to want to give me advice on what we "should" be doing. We exchanged info, and will see what happens. I pretended I was interested in what he was saying, but to be honest, I really couldn't care less. He either likes or gets what we are doing or doesn't.

My takeaway is really that bands also need to put out music that is original and interesting, regardless of their genre, and I keep being surprised by the audience response to music the experts tell us all we are not supposed to like.

At this point, we aren't selling or promoting our music on streaming platforms or CD. We are just focusing on playing live and having a direct interaction with people around our area.

[John Miner]

Looks like we made some good contacts from the show.
Two booking agents wanted our contact info and said we were exactly what the Bay Area needs right now.

The other said we were the best band he had seen in 20+ years around this area.

Certainly some kind words.

Our philosophy is to play mostly odd metered music in a way that doesn't sound "odd" if that makes sense.
Seeing folks dancing to meters like 11/8 or 13/8 or more complex forms like 17/8 ....without them knowing feels like we have accomplished
something that other bands aren't offering up.

Also, being instrumental, it's really a musicians band... with no singer taking the center of attention, it allows the musicians to feel more of
a sense of importance and responsibility to the music. Trying to move people emotionally with just music void of any lyrical message feels more universal to all... as we see it.

Also, were are not ever flavoring the music with any kind of ideology, or political posturing which seems to be more of a uniting force rather than a divisive one.

Our next show is at the Aetna Springs Music Festival in Napa CA on August 3rd. It's a private event, but there are ways to attend.

[John Miner]

Looks like we made some good contacts from the show.
Two booking agents wanted our contact info and said we were exactly what the Bay Area needs right now.

The other said we were the best band he had seen in 20+ years around this area.

Certainly some kind words.

Our philosophy is to play mostly odd metered music in a way that doesn't sound "odd" if that makes sense.
Seeing folks dancing to meters like 11/8 or 13/8 or more complex forms like 17/8 ....without them knowing feels like we have accomplished
something that other bands aren't offering up.

Also, being instrumental, it's really a musicians band... with no singer taking the center of attention, it allows the musicians to feel more of
a sense of importance and responsibility to the music. Trying to move people emotionally with just music void of any lyrical message feels more universal to all... as we see it.

Also, were are not ever flavoring the music with any kind of ideology, or political posturing which seems to be more of a uniting force rather than a divisive one.

Our next show is at the Aetna Springs Music Festival in Napa CA on August 3rd. It's a private event, but there are ways to attend.

We did the Aetna Springs Music Festival.. brought in a prog keyboardist to add color to what we were doing.. and it was fairly well received.. but reviews were mixed when you add a new player no matter how good they are. In our case, we had Brook Hansen who plays the piano lounge on the "Cruise to the Edge" ship. Brook is a friend and we have done some stuff together over the years and I know he enjoyed playing with us.

That being said, we just did one of the major "Porchfest" gigs in the Bay Area..... Benicia Porchfest. We drew a decent crowd.. about 100 folks from the jazz community... good response... and maybe another gig or two coming from this... but a lot of talk.

Again, I want to say that I am not trying to promote my band to the far corners of the internet.. or the world. Just want to keep the conversation going about how we can create a better situation for original live music performers, and in particular, prog, fusion etc.

[Jacob]

Hi everyone,

I am brand new to this forum, but not to progressive rock etc.
I won't get into my past here... contributions to the genre or lack of.. but do have some legitimate questions (I hope) about moving
a new project forward within the context of today's changing musical or cultural landscape.

I am going to make the assumption that this forum has a significant number of members who are musicians of prog, fusion or complex rock players..... who are actively releasing new music, gigging, playing live on some kind of regular basis etc...

That being said, I have noticed a significant decline in the number of prog bands, fusion bands or complex rock bands gigging around my local area. (I am in the San Francisco Bay Area). The cost and expense of touring seems prohibitive for most. There appears to be a trending away from physical product... CD's etc.. and this makes it harder for bands to pick up some extra money at live gigs. Spotify, which I don't know a lot about.. I am not a member, but most musicians I know are either on it.. or making their music available there for "exposure". From what I understand, it doesn't pay well unless you are getting hundreds of thousands of downloads etc.

Most music venues I am talking too... are asking for links to our social media sites... and are predominately booking cover bands. The bigger theaters are focusing on tribute bands. Some original acts are getting booked, but not many in prog or fusion unless they are known from the past with one original member leftover from their major label heyday.

Radio play is basically a thing of the past. Our local radio station... that we have been on several times, might draw 5 or 10 people to a show in a local spot if we are lucky.

There are a few very good rock, folk, reggae, funk, blues bands around this local scene, but none seem to draw more than 20 or 30 people to a show. They are all saying the same thing... basically. It's hard times. These are genres that are more popular and accessible than most prog bands.

I'm only here to be objective, not trying to throw shade.... but it seems that having a few videos on youtube, instagram and a facebook page isn't enough to get things going in and of itself.

So I propose starting a thread here about how to survive and prosper, to adapt and keep relevant in today's music scene as a prog or fusion live player.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Advice from those getting it done?

As a Prog or fusion live player would solely depend on the consistent support and enthusiasm of other musicians willing to take some kind of cut just to work with you.

In the tri state area ( particularly South Jersey), it seems rather rare finding people like that. Though I spend time in the recording studio mostly and disregard the business completely dating back to 2019...it is obvious that unless you are established ...working your way up to that lRevel today could be much less desirable than in the 70s and 80s when traveling and playing shows it was in fact very possible to gain a following over a few months of time and becoming legendary on a circuit.

Some people point out that when the drinking age changed in New Jersey, ( late 79'...1980)..that it basically stripped full time work for the musicians. B.S. all over the place!!

There were less people...but Rock Clubs were still packed in the 1980s...and it was still possible to play 5 or 6 nights a week and make between 3 to 5 hundred a week playing covers.

In the late 80s different booking agents and managers all got together and met privately with working bands to inform them that their work would be cut down to 2 nights a week . That DJ's would alternate with the bands so the owners would pay less.

By the early 90s things got progressively worse when most owners of Rock Clubs sold their business or if not they just bailed out anyway.

Then small bars took over. Many of the Rock Clubs in the tri state area were like huge concert halls...with huge stages...light show...sound system...and huge crowds. Now bands were shoved in the corner of a dive bar playing material that was compiled in a handpicked list manner. No diversity anymore. Just a constant repeated song list for every band . A redundancy ! and that's when everything started dying .

When the business changed for worse...many professionals I knew as sound techs and lighting companies bailed out. Prior to doing that many of them felt it was worthwhile to invest in the music business. When the business began dying and all these harsh decisions to put many bands out of work surfaced they just bailed out and fled...turned away...