Super Deluxe Edition of Fragile

[Frumious B]

Someone on the Hoffman forum has figured out that the track in question is by Terry Reid. Another “win” for Rhino.

[calyx]

Doesn't any of the surviving members of Yes bother to listen to this stuff before it's too late ? I wouldn't expect Wakeman or Anderson to care, but Howe ?
But yes, the level of incompetence that leads to include a track that sounds nothing like Yes (or ELP) is staggering.
This being said, wasn't Alan White Terry Reid's drummer around that time ? That would at least make the song vaguely Yes-related if it's Alan on drums... (Doesn't particularly sound like him though.)

[Frumious B]

Doesn't any of the surviving members of Yes bother to listen to this stuff before it's too late ? I wouldn't expect Wakeman or Anderson to care, but Howe ?
But yes, the level of incompetence that leads to include a track that sounds nothing like Yes (or ELP) is staggering.
This being said, wasn't Alan White Terry Reid's drummer around that time ? That would at least make the song vaguely Yes-related if it's Alan on drums... (Doesn't particularly sound like him though.)

Jimi Hendrix hasn’t heard or commented on any of his fifty-something years worth of archival releases. Somehow every released track has managed to be one that actually involves him.

[godbluff75]

Has anyone noticed a "skip" at 8:14 on the alternate version of 'Heart of the Sunrise'? It is occurs when Jon starts to sing "Straight light moving..." My copy is the digital download from Qobuz.

[Frumious B]

Has anyone noticed a "skip" at 8:14 on the alternate version of 'Heart of the Sunrise'? It is occurs when Jon starts to sing "Straight light moving..." My copy is the digital download from Qobuz.

I hear what you are talking about, but I think it might be whoever was mixing bringing in the vocals a hair too late rather than a skip. Assuming this rough mix is from 1971-72 then that could just be what is on the tape and they are presenting it “as is”.

[godbluff75]

I hear what you are talking about, but I think it might be whoever was mixing bringing in the vocals a hair too late rather than a skip. Assuming this rough mix is from 1971-72 then that could just be what is on the tape and they are presenting it “as is”.

Thanks! That makes sense.

[pb2015]

This being said, wasn't Alan White Terry Reid's drummer around that time ? That would at least make the song vaguely Yes-related if it's Alan on drums... (Doesn't particularly sound like him though.)

The drumming reminds me of how Alan sounds on the Progeny 1972 box.

[dmh84]

Man, I hope the “Close to the Edge” deluxe box will have a great ‘76 version of “Supper’s Ready!”

[smcfee]

Apparently, it's a Terry Reid track! (Scroll to about 55 minutes in on that YouTube link. No doubt about it.)

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...201817/page-13

I can also definitely say that sounds like Reid singing on 'The Dean' linked above.

What a total screw-up. Imagine hearing that and thinking it's Yes! Shades of that 'Unknown Ballad'/ELP fiasco.

No worries, the Super Fucking Amazing 55th Anniversary Edition will remove it again.

[bondegezou]

Doesn't any of the surviving members of Yes bother to listen to this stuff before it's too late ? I wouldn't expect Wakeman or Anderson to care, but Howe ?
But yes, the level of incompetence that leads to include a track that sounds nothing like Yes (or ELP) is staggering.
This being said, wasn't Alan White Terry Reid's drummer around that time ? That would at least make the song vaguely Yes-related if it's Alan on drums... (Doesn't particularly sound like him though.)

Given Warner/Rhino own all the rights, I don't know how much effort they put into running this stuff past the remaining band members. That said, rights or not, the surviving Yes members could take more interest in what Warner are doing.

The Reid session is probably with Offord producing and White on drums, but hard to confirm.

[calyx]

Given Warner/Rhino own all the rights, I don't know how much effort they put into running this stuff past the remaining band members.

Well, Howe took enough of an active interest in the "Tales" remaster to provide a live version of "Ritual" from his personal collection of recordings. So I assumed he would be the one member they would seek input/approval from. Evidently that didn't happen.

[bondegezou]

Well, Howe took enough of an active interest in the "Tales" remaster to provide a live version of "Ritual" from his personal collection of recordings. So I assumed he would be the one member they would seek input/approval from. Evidently that didn't happen.

Howe seems to have had a good relationship with Wilson, who seems to have had more of a leadership role on the Panegyric series. While Wilson is working on the SDE series, he seems less involved. There's a newer team behind these.

[moecurlythanu]

Francis Monkman.

Ha!

[Eddie Y]

Howe seems to have had a good relationship with Wilson, who seems to have had more of a leadership role on the Panegyric series. While Wilson is working on the SDE series, he seems less involved. There's a newer team behind these.

Still you would think Wilson would have had to hear the recordings in time to ask a question about its legitimacy, before he did his work?

It was so different that I'd assumed it had to have been vetted

[bondegezou]

Still you would think Wilson would have had to hear the recordings in time to ask a question about its legitimacy, before he did his work?

It was so different that I'd assumed it had to have been vetted

AIUI, Wilson is not credited as having had anything to do with the track. (I haven't got a set, so I don't know for sure.) He didn't mix it.

[Frumious B]

Wilson doesn’t do work with tapes or archival research. He is sent digital files of the multis for the tracks he is mixing.

[Frumious B]

Still you would think Wilson would have had to hear the recordings in time to ask a question about its legitimacy, before he did his work?

It was so different that I'd assumed it had to have been vetted

My best guess is that the track probably happened to be on the same tape with the other “rough/early/alternate” type vintage mix type tracks that appear on the set and the Rhino folks just assumed it was Yes and stuck it on there. It’s crazy how regular music fans on the internet can hear the song, realize it’s not Yes at all and then figure out who it really is within a day of the release while Rhino had months and months to figure out their error and never did, but there ya go. Maybe they need more people working for them who listen to music.

Hopefully they can unearth some Zeppelin for us for the Close To The Edge box.

[Eddie Y]

This thread is making me appreciate Mark Powell of Cherry Red, he's been doing the classic Nektar catalog and the band is involved as much as possible and he welcomes input and seems to actually listen to suggestions

I had some sky high hopes for some new bonus material when the Tales release in this series happens, but based on the way Talk and this one rolled out I'll temper those expectations till I see the track list

[Eddie Y]

Wilson doesn’t do work with tapes or archival research. He is sent digital files of the multis for the tracks he is mixing.

Didn't realize that he didn't do the bonus stuff, interesting to me that he doesn't

[Frumious B]

Didn't realize that he didn't do the bonus stuff, interesting to me that he doesn't

If there aren’t multitracks for the bonus material then there wouldn’t be anything for Wilson to mix. I think “All Fighters Past” is his mix, so they must have had multis for that, but if there is only stereo or mono available then it’s not part of his job.

[Czyszy]

I've always wondered if the multitracks Steven Wilson is given to mix are raw/dry or with all the effects like reverbs, echoes, EQ printed. Back in the 70's there wasn't really a 'proper standard' to leave all the multitracks 100% dry and a lot of times, producers would bounce stuff to tape with all the effects baked in. Heck, recording stuff like vocals or bass with heavy limiting/compressors on the way in before the signal even went to the 1st generation tape was common practice.

[Frumious B]

I've always wondered if the multitracks Steven Wilson is given to mix are raw/dry or with all the effects like reverbs, echoes, EQ printed. Back in the 70's there wasn't really a 'proper standard' to leave all the multitracks 100% dry and a lot of times, producers would bounce stuff to tape with all the effects baked in. Heck, recording stuff like vocals or bass with heavy limiting/compressors on the way in before the signal even went to the 1st generation tape was common practice.

I would think that it is some of both. I’ve seen interviews where he has made reference to using a software plugin to recreate analogue effects for his remix projects, but surely that’s not always needed.

[Czyszy]

Speaking of "dry tracks", I've just listened to the "alternate" version of Heart of the Sunrise. The lack of any reverb on Jon's lead vocals feels super weird and empty to me.

[jefftiger]

I would think that it is some of both. I’ve seen interviews where he has made reference to using a software plugin to recreate analogue effects for his remix projects, but surely that’s not always needed.

I recall reading his commentary in the booklet in his remix of the first ELP album. Regrettably, I no longer have my physical copy of this release. IIRC, he talked about the end of Knife-Edge and how he was unable to reproduce the slow-down, since it had originally been done in some analog manner. I always found what he did with the end of the song in his remix (more or less, nothing) a bit unsatisfying.

[Czyszy]

Alright. So, I isolated the vocals with UVR, fed the output into my favorite reverb VST and mixed it with the "official" version. IMHO this experiment really shows how big of a difference can a reverb make.
https://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/project/5832331