King Crimson triple drummer lineup tenth anniversary

[Rarebird]

I love the dynamics of the album! All music does not need to be listenable on cars...

Reminds me on The planets by Holst. If I turned up the volume, so I could hear the soft passages, my mom came running in my room, to tell me to turn the volume down, when the louder parts turned up.

[Trane]

First off I would remix (or remaster or whatever it is you call it) "Larks' Tongues in Aspic Part 1" so that innocent people hearing it for the first time won't turn their volume waaaay up and then get blasted. I like me some dynamics, but that's so extreme it can cause harm - I was driving the first time I listened to the album -- in fact, it was the first Crimson album I ever heard -- and when the BA-DA-DA-DA-BA-DUM section came in I jumped so hard I nearly rammed the car in front of me. No warning, man. (I also damaged my left speaker so that it always buzzed in the bass, but that's another matter.) I don't think easing the jump by half a decibel or so would hurt the quality of the music in any way.

I would also replace the fadeout on "Exiles" with an actual ending (I generally detest fadeouts, unless -- as in "Supper's Ready" -- they are there for a good reason), and I might shorten the noodling that takes up its first minute and a quarter.

Finally, "Easy Money." I can point to a dozen live versions where the improv section is much better than the studio, thus showing that it could be and was improved upon by the band themselves.

An album it took me years to come to terms with this album. at first I only liked Exiles and Talking Drum, but after a couple of years, I was into the two title tracks. Easy Money took me years to "get" (surprising I heard it blaring in a café, in the middle of the night, and it clicked right then), but I still haven't come to terms with Book Of Saturdays - dislike Wetton's singing in there.

Like everybody, for the first few spins, I got fooled by the dynamics of the start of the first TT.
I think I woke up the neighbours.

[Dave (in MA)]

I like me some dynamics, but that's so extreme it can cause harm - I was driving the first time I listened to the album -- in fact, it was the first Crimson album I ever heard -- and when the BA-DA-DA-DA-BA-DUM section came in I jumped so hard I nearly rammed the car in front of me. No warning, man. (I also damaged my left speaker so that it always buzzed in the bass, but that's another matter.)

I found out that one should never listen to a thumb drive in your car on shuffle if the thumb drive includes Black Sabbath's "13" album. Maybe also away from your car.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

Points well made.

Thank you!

I recommend that one not listen to King Crimson albums in a moving vehicle (unless it's totally silent like EV's are supposed to be). Islands would be another (particularly "The Letters") that would not fare well in that environment.

Agreed in general. Red works very well in a moving vehicle though...

Interesting observation about "Supper's Ready" and perhaps your comment casts some light on why it's faded out on the live "Seconds Out." But I'd like you to explain the artistic rationale, from your point of view.

In the final part, the narration translates into an eternal and unchanging situation i.e., heaven. (Or is it? The fact that the final section repeats the melody of "The Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man" makes me nervous about just what they're saying...) A dramatic stop would not have worked thematically; so they chose that ending. (I particularly like the very long versions Hackett has done on some of his solo tours, but that's another issue...)

As you can probably tell I spent way too much time in my younger days analyzing Genesis lyrics

[Batchman]

In the final part, the narration translates into an eternal and unchanging situation i.e., heaven. (Or is it? The fact that the final section repeats the melody of "The Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man" makes me nervous about just what they're saying...) A dramatic stop would not have worked thematically; so they chose that ending. (I particularly like the very long versions Hackett has done on some of his solo tours, but that's another issue...)

A dramatic stop would not have worked on "The Cinema Show" either, but that's exactly what was done on the "Seconds Out" tour - and it wasn't even "dramatic" but more cartoonish if anything. I suppose they felt obligated to finish it up without having to go into the "Aisle of Plenty" section (which would make little sense outside of the context of the full SEBTP album), but they could have done better than that.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

A dramatic stop would not have worked on "The Cinema Show" either, but that's exactly what was done on the "Seconds Out" tour - and it wasn't even "dramatic" but more cartoonish if anything. I suppose they felt obligated to finish it up without having to go into the "Aisle of Plenty" section (which would make little sense outside of the context of the full SEBTP album), but they could have done better than that.

I'll give Genesis credit for this: at least (if I recall rightly) they played through the lengthy instrumental ending, then cut it off with an ending sort of thing rather than transitioning to "Aisle." And thinking about it ... I'm pretty sure they didn't play "Aisle" on the SEbtP tour either?

> goes and verifies <

They did not. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6XCveoaQmg) Long instrumental outro, cut off with a quick crescendo.

The only live versions of "Aisle of Plenty" I've ever heard were from Steve Hackett shows.

[Dave (in MA)]

I had Seconds Out for several years before picking up Selling England, so the original's transition into Aisle was a little startling to hear, at first.

I don't find anything "cartoonish" about the Seconds Out ending of that song.

It was also a little startling to hear Hackett's version include Aisle on his Seconds Out And More tour.

[Batchman]

I don't find anything "cartoonish" about the Seconds Out ending of that song.

It was abrupt and broke the mood of the extended instrumental section. My point was that if Genesis could honor the fadeout of Supper's Ready live, why couldn't they have done similarly with The Cinema Show?

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

A fadeout on "Cinema Show" might have worked -- but I honestly think it would have somewhat lessened the effect of the f/o on "Supper's Ready." I agree that a more ... organic solution would have been better, but I'm not sure what it would have been. Just stopping the song at some point (á là King Crimson '80s songs like "Discipline" and "Thela Hun Jingeet") might have been an option, I suppose, but that seems wrong for Genesis. Perhaps ending it with a flourish at the end of the second "Father Tiresias" verse and skipping the instrumental might have worked...but that's the best part of the song, to these ears. It seems to me that, having decided not to go into "Aisle of Plenty" -- possibly because it ends with a fadeout -- they were lost for a decent ending... Even just doing a quick modulation before the crescending would have helped, I think.

[Batchman]

A fadeout on "Cinema Show" might have worked -- but I honestly think it would have somewhat lessened the effect of the f/o on "Supper's Ready." I agree that a more ... organic solution would have been better, but I'm not sure what it would have been. Just stopping the song at some point (á là King Crimson '80s songs like "Discipline" and "Thela Hun Jingeet") might have been an option, I suppose, but that seems wrong for Genesis. Perhaps ending it with a flourish at the end of the second "Father Tiresias" verse and skipping the instrumental might have worked...but that's the best part of the song, to these ears. It seems to me that, having decided not to go into "Aisle of Plenty" -- possibly because it ends with a fadeout -- they were lost for a decent ending... Even just doing a quick modulation before the crescending would have helped, I think.

How about repeating the "Father Tiresias" verse after the instrumental section and ending right after the "But there is in fact more earth than sea" line? I think that would have worked best. (In fact, from when I first heard it on SEBTP, I'd always expected a return of the lyric portion and was left hanging when that didn't happen.)

On the topic of fadeouts, they may work live, but if I ever see a fadeout on a televised performance it always makes me conclude that the entire performance was lip-synched.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

A third "Father Tiresias" might work, yes.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

Damn, time flies.

I remember being excited at the possibility of seeing KC play material I never thought I'd see them play. While I hope the band will continue in some way (especially some form of studio release), if it doesn't this 7/8 headed beast is a fitting way for the story to end.

I didn't see them on this first go around, but I saw them on each subsequent tour they came to Frownland. That first time was truly magical. Actually being there in the room was nearly a mind altering experience. I prefer tthe 8 Headed Beast (as Stacey was a step up from Rieflin and having a dedicated keyboard player added much to the proceedings IMO), so for me their pinnacle was the 2017 tour and both Live In Chicago and Meltdown are essentials in my collection.

[Trane]

I remember being excited at the possibility of seeing KC play material I never thought I'd see them play.

While I hope the band will continue in some way (especially some form of studio release), if it doesn't this 7/8 headed beast is a fitting way for the story to end.
I didn't see them on this first go around, but I saw them on each subsequent tour they came to Frownland. That first time was truly magical. Actually being there in the room was nearly a mind altering experience. I prefer the 8 Headed Beast (as Stacey was a step up from Rieflin and having a dedicated keyboard player added much to the proceedings IMO), so for me their pinnacle was the 2017 tour and both Live In Chicago and Meltdown are essentials in my collection.

TBH, if they hadn't played stuff from Wake/Lizard/Island, I might've shunned them.
FTM, I think I let them go though my neck of the woods the first time as well, just like I passed on the ConstruKction tour. I can't remember if they came around for Power, but I didn't attend either..
I knew they'd do stuff from Lark's Red Bible (as the double trio had relied on them heavily), but really yearned to hear those three neglected albums.

I also preferred the 8-man line-up.

[kenticus]

Saw the final KC twice - once in 2017 and once in 2021. In both cases, were the Milwaukee shows, which is funny given I live in Chicago…..yes, I foolishly didn’t take the plunge to go to the Chicago 2017 show that got released because I was just starting to get comfortable with going to shows alone. Funnier also how in 2014 I could have walked 10 mins from my apartment to see any of the shows at the Vic and didn’t go

That said, both shows were fantastic for different reasons. 2017 for being the 8 headed monster that played for like 3 hours across 2 sets and encores. Just insane lengths of stuff. Then 2021 felt a bit more savage, band playing one set plus an encore and playing about 1hr 50 mins (with Zappa band opener). For that one, I’m particularly glad I went to Milwaukee as the “Chicago” show was at the Ravinia Festival grounds in the suburbs of Chicago….not an ideal place imo for KC.

Looking forward to these upcoming releases of all shows from a given year, starting with 2014. Should be fun to hear how the band evolved.

[GuitarGeek]

I love the dynamics of the album! All music does not need to be listenable on cars...

It would be nice though if you didn't have to turn the volume so loud, so that pianissimo parts can be heard, that the fortissimo parts end up damaging either your ears and/or speakers. I've had this complaint with a lot of music, particularly in the classical music field. There's lots of recordings where they run the gamut from ppp to fff, and when the latter happens, whether you in a car or not, it can be startling. I used to doze off a lot while listening to music, and the upshot would be, if it was something with those kind of dynamics, you'd be jolted awake, as if someone was tearing down the bedroom door.

[Batchman]

It would be nice though if you didn't have to turn the volume so loud, so that pianissimo parts that the fortissimo parts end up damaging either your ears and/or speakers. I've had this complaint with a lot of music, particularly in the classical music field. There's lots of recordings where they run the gamut from ppp to fff, and when the latter happens, whether you in a car or not, it can be startling. I used to doze off a lot while listening to music, and the upshot would be, if it was something with those kind of dynamics, you'd be jolted awake, as if someone was tearing down the bedroom door.

That was the precise intent of Haydn's Surprise Symphony.

[pb2015]

For that one, I’m particularly glad I went to Milwaukee as the “Chicago” show was at the Ravinia Festival grounds in the suburbs of Chicago….not an ideal place imo for KC.

I was at the Ravinia show. Worked for me but I got lucky and got great upfront seats through my job. I also saw the three-drummer KC at the Vic in 2014 which was perhaps a better environment for them.

[mozo-pg]

I saw them on their first tour in the Egg in Albany NY. I saw them next at Place Des Arts, in Montreal. It was wonderful but didn't have the aggressiveness of their 90s or earlier shows but not really a compllaint.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

My two shows: 10/4/14, The Warfield, San Francisco, and 6/17/17, Fox Theater, Oakland. Both of them were amazing shows that brought me near to tears for different reasons.

In '14, my friend (who is short) and I were seated in the balcony behind a tall dingbat who insisted on standing and dancing the entire time. Considering the visually non-stimulating nature of those shows, one would think that this would not be a problem, but it was. The person seated next to him filmed the entire show on his phone. Fortunately, Fripp did not sense this and terminate the procedings. But it was a magnificent performance, and as we walked out my friend said to me, "I may never see them again, but I saw songs tonight that I thought I'd never see live." Amen to that.

In '17, well, the setlist was just phenomenal. Between "Fracture," "Cirkus," and the rearranged Lizard suite, I was in aural ecstasy. (Well ... to be fair, I was a little disappointed by the rearrangement of the Lizard suite; the "Bolero," which they omitted, was always my favorite part of the entire album...) I was so involved I didn't know what to think I didn't notice how full my bladder was getting... by the time they finished I had to run to the euphemism and so missed a bit of "Epitaph." Ah, well. Good times.

[Aggie87]

I can't remember if they came around for Power, but I didn't attend either..

Yes, they played in Belgium in 2003, at the Dour Festival. I saw them the show before that, in Stuttgart, and it was fantastic. But then I always loved that particular lineup.

[Mister Triscuits]

In '17, well, the setlist was just phenomenal. Between "Fracture," "Cirkus," and the rearranged Lizard suite, I was in aural ecstasy.

I'm forever pissed off that I never caught them on a night when they were doing material from Lizard, my favorite album.

[pb2015]

(Well ... to be fair, I was a little disappointed by the rearrangement of the Lizard suite; the "Bolero," which they omitted, was always my favorite part of the entire album...)

That is surprising. For some time it seemed to be the only part of the album Fripp liked, too.

[Mister Triscuits]

That is surprising. For some time it seemed to be the only part of the album Fripp liked, too.

It's the one bit of Lizard I have heard performed live, though not quite by Crimson--by the Levin Brothers when they were touring with Soft Machine.

[Batchman]

It's the one bit of Lizard I have heard performed live, though not quite by Crimson--by the Levin Brothers when they were touring with Soft Machine.

Granted that it's kind of hard to pull it off without the orchestral instruments, though.

[mozo-pg]

Yes, they played in Belgium in 2003, at the Dour Festival. I saw them the show before that, in Stuttgart, and it was fantastic. But then I always loved that particular lineup.

I saw the tour in Montreal. I know the 3 drummer line up is a totally different beast but I thought Power was just that - aggressive and sublime.