1990s Britpop - An American Who Doesn't Get The Hype

[clivey]

Seriously? Lol. Ok, but why would they mention these bands in a brit pop thread if they didn't think they were brit pop? Obviously they were thinking of them in regards to brit pop. It's all about context. That's like saying I love prog. Then saying right after that Yes is one of my favorite bands. No, I didn't tag them specifically but it's very easy to put two and two together. In the case of the second one the poster mentions Radiohead right in between other Brit Pop bands.

I think I was trying to highlight the chronological aspect of the genres mentioned and how there was a lot of overlap. If I were to pinpoint the main defining points of " britpop" I would probably refer to the somewhat sanitized and commercial nature of the product. They did sell an awful lot . I already stated on post#16 that I didn't consider Radiohead to be anywhere near " britpop"

[Digital_Man]

I think I was trying to highlight the chronological aspect of the genres mentioned and how there was a lot of overlap. If I were to pinpoint the main defining points of " britpop" I would probably refer to the somewhat sanitized and commercial nature of the product. They did sell an awful lot . I already stated on post#16 that I didn't consider Radiohead to be anywhere near " britpop"

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

[mozo-pg]

There are most likely tunes you heard by them back then if you listened to the radio, like Live Forever, Wonderwall, or Champagne Supernova. At least that was the case in the Atlanta area and the station 99X, with the influential radio programmer Leslie Fram. Adds from her used to influence the playlists around the country. That station played WWall and Champagne to fuckin death back then, so maybe l heard Oasis on the radio a lot more than some people. If l
recall she was one of the first programmers to put Karma Police in rotation, and incredibly they played Paranoid Android for a little while when OK C was blowing up.

Yes, I guess your right, They were everywhere in the 90s.

[Progbear]

From the early 60s to the mid-80s, the United Kingdom were at the forefront of popular music tastemaking. In those times, the British pop charts were consistently more interesting than the American charts.

That changed in the 90s. The British press championing mediocrities like Oasis and Blur was them pretending that British pop music still mattered. The only British export to have any kind of impact post-New Wave, pre-Radiohead was the Spice Girls, and I think that tells you all you need to know.

[veteranof1000psychicwars]

From the early 60s to the mid-80s, the United Kingdom were at the forefront of popular music tastemaking. In those times, the British pop charts were consistently more interesting than the American charts.

That changed in the 90s. The British press championing mediocrities like Oasis and Blur was them pretending that British pop music still mattered. The only British export to have any kind of impact post-New Wave, pre-Radiohead was the Spice Girls, and I think that tells you all you need to know.

Yeah, l think you pretty much hit it on the head, there.

[Mascodagama]

It was all good fun at the time if you were drunk and/or high enough (speaking as one who was there, more or less - during the core Britpop years I was living in London, in my mid-twenties, and soaked in booze and music).

Most of the records don't stand up well in hindsight, and in fact the mediocrity of many of the bands - including Oasis - was quite apparent at the time to those of us with a slightly wider listening perspective. Of the major groups associated with the 'movement', Suede and Pulp were the most interesting. I also have a personal soft spot for The Verve's Urban Hymns, but that probably has more to do with personal associations from the time than anything else.

Of course the best popular music coming out of the UK at the time had little to do with Britpop - as has been noted, Radiohead always stood apart from it, playing a different game, but there were plenty of others even without looking beyond the charts - Portishead's Dummy and Tricky's Maxinquaye remain standout albums. A personal favourite was Luke Haines' band The Auteurs. Haines, a natural outsider who held Britpop in unabashedly snobbish contempt, also wrote the only book about the phenomenon I am aware of that is worth reading, Bad Vibes: Britpop and my part in its downfall.

[Mascodagama]

Why is Lee Mavers of The La's revered as some sort of Syd Barrett-like visionary when his band is known for one run of the mill pop song?

Is he really that revered outside of the minds of people for whom that song crystallises some form of nostalgia for their lost youth? I don't think The Las were generally considered anything more than one-hit wonders, even by people who would sing along to that hit.

Now if you want to hear some proper psychedelic music from the UK at that period, you should check out Nick Salomon's project The Bevis Frond. The best place to start being 1993 double album New River Head, which is a lost classic.

[MudShark22]

but there were plenty of others even without looking beyond the charts - Portishead's Dummy and Tricky's Maxinquaye remain standout albums

Love both those discs....

Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit.

[per anporth]

It was all good fun at the time if you were drunk and/or high enough (speaking as one who was there, more or less - during the core Britpop years I was living in London, in my mid-twenties, and soaked in booze and music).

Most of the records don't stand up well in hindsight, and in fact the mediocrity of many of the bands - including Oasis - was quite apparent at the time to those of us with a slightly wider listening perspective. Of the major groups associated with the 'movement', Suede and Pulp were the most interesting. I also have a personal soft spot for The Verve's Urban Hymns, but that probably has more to do with personal associations from the time than anything else.

Of course the best popular music coming out of the UK at the time had little to do with Britpop - as has been noted, Radiohead always stood apart from it, playing a different game, but there were plenty of others even without looking beyond the charts - Portishead's Dummy and Tricky's Maxinquaye remain standout albums. A personal favourite was Luke Haines' band The Auteurs. Haines, a natural outsider who held Britpop in unabashedly snobbish contempt, also wrote the only book about the phenomenon I am aware of that is worth reading, Bad Vibes: Britpop and my part in its downfall.

Mention of Tricky & Portishead gets to what I think was the nub of the issue back in the mid-90s. Music had become very diverse, in exciting ways - there were so many influences, especially from the diverse immigrant populations across the UK. Oasis in particular felt like a more or less self-conscious throwback, an attempt to return to music "as it used to be" - the almost obsessive pastiching of the Beatles bearing this out most explicitly. Even in Manchester, it felt like a dead end...

(I think that Damon Albarn's many & varied collaborations outside Blur indicate that his band were never so retrograde as Oasis)

[Mascodagama]

Mention of Tricky & Portishead gets to what I think was the nub of the issue back in the mid-90s. Music had become very diverse, in exciting ways - there were so many influences, especially from the diverse immigrant populations across the UK.

Indeed, well said. And not all of this emanating from Bristol, it might be added. Much could be said about the innovations on the underground club music scene, where drum'n'bass was giving rise to interesting fusions in the hands of Roni Size, 4Hero, Goldie, Photek, et al.

Oasis in particular felt like a more or less self-conscious throwback, an attempt to return to music "as it used to be" - the almost obsessive pastiching of the Beatles bearing this out most explicitly. Even in Manchester, it felt like a dead end...

Brexitpop avant la lettre?

[clivey]

Is he really that revered outside of the minds of people for whom that song crystallises some form of nostalgia for their lost youth? I don't think The Las were generally considered anything more than one-hit wonders, even by people who would sing along to that hit.

Now if you want to hear some proper psychedelic music from the UK at that period, you should check out Nick Salomon's project The Bevis Frond. The best place to start being 1993 double album New River Head, which is a lost classic.

I spun the 1990 album yesterday as a result of this thread and it a bit of a gem really. 12 numbers all deliciously and unashamedly repro 60's weighing in at 36 minutes. I don't think there was ever an album released in the 60's that sounded as period perfect ha ha. Some great vibes non the less

[per anporth]

Indeed, well said. And not all of this emanating from Bristol, it might be added. Much could be said about the innovations on the underground club music scene, where drum'n'bass was giving rise to interesting fusions in the hands of Roni Size, 4Hero, Goldie, Photek, et al.



Brexitpop avant la lettre?

I loved Roni Size & 4 Hero - for me, bands today like Ezra Collective, Kokoroko, Nubya Garcia & their ilk are channeling the spirit that animated that Bristol scene.

(your concluding observation tapped into exactly what I had hoped to imply in my previous post!!!)

[JJ88]

I like the bigger Britpop names to an extent. It was kind of the last gasp of British rock. I never liked all those 2000s bands like The Arctic Monkeys. I have always been baffled by the latter's popularity. At least Oasis once had something for five minutes.

I'm a Brit and I can't really get the appeal of Oasis and the current hype about the reunion is driving me nuts. Back in the day I kind of enjoyed the first two albums and they do have a few classic rock songs, but they burned out quickly for mw.

I found it revealing that it was only the 90s albums that re-charted in all the furore. All the 2000s ones didn't.

I think Definitely Maybe is a strong album. ...Morning Glory, less so- I only like bits of it TBH. Their obnoxiousness was always a turn-off.

I have to also say that I was never knocked out by anything I saw/heard of them playing live, when they were originally around. It will be interesting to hear what they sound like now, whoever is even in the band (they have not said).

Why on earth is everyone in Britain breathlessly hoping for another utterance of genius from Lee "Syd" Mavers? Because of that mediocre song?

The UK music press always lapsed into ludicrous hyperbole where indie bands are concerned. Simple as that.

[clivey]

Here is one of the best songs from that period from Pulp, who were definitely tagged as britpop though in truth they were more "Artrock". This number really captures the essence of what it was like to be of a particular demographic in the UK round about the end of the 80's /onset of the 90's. Jarvis wrote it mid 90's , so it was already all over by the time this number became huge. Most of you guys will know this but if it reaches even one new listener it will have been worth posting.

[veteranof1000psychicwars]

The UK music press always lapsed into ludicrous hyperbole where indie bands are concerned. Simple as that.

That would certainly explain it. A 6-page MOJO feature on the La's (long after they disbanded) was a tad excessive.

[clivey]

That would certainly explain it. A 6-page MOJO feature on the La's (long after they disbanded) was a tad excessive.

Yikeees. So it would have taken me longer to read the feature than to listen to the band's complete issue. Ha.

[Sunlight Caller]

I loved Roni Size & 4 Hero - for me, bands today like Ezra Collective, Kokoroko, Nubya Garcia & their ilk are channeling the spirit that animated that Bristol scene.

(your concluding observation tapped into exactly what I had hoped to imply in my previous post!!!)

I never quite got the drum and bass thing, but I do have a couple of 4Hero albums, some of the collaborations there went in a pure jazz funk direction, of which I heartily approved, and I can see how they laid a path for the new wave of U.K. jazzers. Robin, I know our paths meet here, we’ve sat at the same gigs!

[Sunlight Caller]

The Auteurs were terrific the first two albums are worth an investigation. Luke Haines remains an irascible curmudgeon to this day and we love him for it!

[Trane]

I don't consider them Brit pop either. Ok Computer is pure prog to my ears.

OKC is their tird album, but their first two first two sound pretty britpoppy to me, but they went onto better things
Muse's first two were also pretty Britpoppy, but by Absolution, they had grown into something different.

the only two bands that evolved into something else

If I heard Oasis on the radio, I couldn't recognize it.

difficult to miss them really. They had their own sound and it's easy to tell any track of theirs.

Never cared for them, Pulp, Suede, Coldplay or Blur or the rest of that "wave" and there were plenty of other bands whose names I totally forfgot, but if mentionned, it will probably ring a bell.

[veteranof1000psychicwars]

An interesting antecedent to this might be to go back 30 years to The Kinks, who one could consider Britpop for their time. You could say being unable to tour the US hurt them here but l don't think so. Even with a reassessment of their career didn't boost their popularity in the States. You could say they were way too British for American appeal, but you could say the same thing about The Who (to a degree in their early days, and Quadrophenia??). In comparison maybe The Kinks were TOO British, lacking more of a universal appeal. Some of the 90s bands may have suffered for that here too, but l don't think so...a rare occasion when the US could see through the hype surrounding average music.

[veteranof1000psychicwars]

We may also see what happens with this in real time with Oasis booking North American dates. If they try to pull that $300 a ticket shit over here l think they will be disappointed, and even more disappointed when they have to move their arena shows to 2000 seaters.

[Trane]

From the early 60s to the mid-80s, the United Kingdom were at the forefront of popular music tastemaking. In those times, the British pop charts were consistently more interesting than the American charts.

That changed in the 90s. The British press championing mediocrities like Oasis and Blur was them pretending that British pop music still mattered. The only British export to have any kind of impact post-New Wave, pre-Radiohead was the Spice Girls, and I think that tells you all you need to know.

I don't know about "interesting", though. Volatile certainly. They always loved to burn the stuff they loved a few years (decade) before, and that was accentuated (IMHO) with the punk wave onwards. US/North Am charts remained more faithful to their former icons, IMHO.

90's Britpop certainly had an impact on the continent's classic rock radios, getting plenty of airplay and getting interesting sales figures (at least in Benelux and surrounding countries).

Of course the best popular music coming out of the UK at the time had little to do with Britpop - as has been noted, Radiohead always stood apart from it, playing a different game, but there were plenty of others even without looking beyond the charts - Portishead's Dummy and Tricky's Maxinquaye remain standout albums. A personal favourite was Luke Haines' band The Auteurs. Haines, a natural outsider who held Britpop in unabashedly snobbish contempt, also wrote the only book about the phenomenon I am aware of that is worth reading, Bad Vibes: Britpop and my part in its downfall.

trip hop is IMHO not britpop, whether Portishead or Massive Attack or Tricky. Not saying you said so, uh!!
RYM list Radiohead as Post-Britpop, but it doesn't make sense, since they were around in the key years and in my eyes were one of the early flagship of the genre and remained +/- so until they veered post-rock from Amnesia onwards. It took me a few years to actually listening closer to OKC and Kid A (mainly because progbuddies were discussing it)

Mention of Tricky & Portishead gets to what I think was the nub of the issue back in the mid-90s. Music had become very diverse, in exciting ways - there were so many influences, especially from the diverse immigrant populations across the UK. Oasis in particular felt like a more or less self-conscious throwback, an attempt to return to music "as it used to be" - the almost obsessive pastiching of the Beatles bearing this out most explicitly. Even in Manchester, it felt like a dead end...

Indeed, in the pop/rock world, the 90's Trip Hop & Post Rock carried me through the decade after my initial rock revival with Grunge, Funk Metal and arly 90's prog waves. I mean after 95, it seemed that all three were losing steam along the way (and certainly me), and thankfully for me, I discovered Tortoise, Tarentel, Talk 2 and the Constellation label (GYBE! & stuff).

I loved Roni Size & 4 Hero - for me, bands today like Ezra Collective, Kokoroko, Nubya Garcia & their ilk are channeling the spirit that animated that Bristol scene.

Not sure about that... If it weren't for Shabaka Hutchings and the Brownsville label, I'm not sure this crowd would've got much exposure. And Brownsville has the Manchester Hallsall/Gondwana label to rival them. It seems like the LDN scene +/- died out in very recent history and the Gondwana label has remained strong, though.

I never quite got the drum and bass thing, but I do have a couple of 4Hero albums, some of the collaborations there went in a pure jazz funk direction, of which I heartily approved, and I can see how they laid a path for the new wave of U.K. jazzers. Robin, I know our paths meet here, we’ve sat at the same gigs!

D&B never really made inroads on the continent in the 90's, and TBH, I don't think it surfaced to my eyes until the flood of Spiritual jazz (the LDN scene) and the kling-ons of the Brownsville label.

I'm sure it's much more than whayever little I heard, but in the 90's the only name I remember tagged D&B was Amon Tobin and that seemed more like the turn of the century, rather than the peak of 94/97.

[per anporth]

Trane:

D&B never really made inroads on the continent in the 90's

One place you can hear the influence of DnB is in a lot of the work of Euro Jazzers, such as est & Bugge Wesseltoft. Magnus Öström starts to incorporate DnB rhythms on est records from the late 90s onwards.

I think what the London scene jazzers have added to the DnB/dance rhythms & sensibility of the early 90s is the influence of Afrobeat.

JJ:

I like the bigger Britpop names to an extent. It was kind of the last gasp of British rock. I never liked all those 2000s bands like The Arctic Monkeys. I have always been baffled by the latter's popularity. At least Oasis once had something for five minutes.

I couldn't disagree more. Oasis from the very get go sounded ponderous & derivative to my ears. By contrast, the first (& to a degree, second) Arctic Monkeys lps were a blast of sonic joy & excitement - they channeled the exuberant energy of the best punk bands, had brilliant riffs, & - what Oasis most obviously lacked - a wonderful, witty, sharp-as-a-tack lyricist. Where Oasis felt old before their years, AM were vibrantly, thrillingly, young, & exciting. Suddenly, guitar rock felt full of possibilities again!

(That they've turned into a gross parody of everything that Turner lambasted on these early records is bleakly ironic)

[JJ88]

Suddenly, guitar rock felt full of possibilities again!

(That they've turned into a gross parody of everything that Turner lambasted on these early records is bleakly ironic)

Personally I think it was a blind alley. They and predecessors like The Libertines directly led to those 'landfill indie' bands, in my view. Not that Oasis didn't lead to their own cul de sac.

I saw their Glastonbury performance last year and thought it was particularly awful. A dead crowd as well.

An interesting antecedent to this might be to go back 30 years to The Kinks, who one could consider Britpop for their time. You could say being unable to tour the US hurt them here but l don't think so. Even with a reassessment of their career didn't boost their popularity in the States..

As far as The Kinks go, remember they had a second wind in the US. They had big hit albums in the 70s and 80s on Arista, where they were basically yesterday's men over here. There was only one big UK hit single in that whole period- 'Come Dancing'.

We may also see what happens with this in real time with Oasis booking North American dates. If they try to pull that $300 a ticket shit over here l think they will be disappointed, and even more disappointed when they have to move their arena shows to 2000 seaters.

I think the indications are that they will sell out but let's be clear- online 'sell outs' now include an army of touts grabbing up tickets. So you don't know what the demand really is.

[Mascodagama]

I never quite got the drum and bass thing, but I do have a couple of 4Hero albums, some of the collaborations there went in a pure jazz funk direction, of which I heartily approved, and I can see how they laid a path for the new wave of U.K. jazzers

I probably listened to the spooky jazz stylings of Photek as much as I listened to anything around 1996, and can't resist dropping this here: