The PROG Mind

[Second Life Syndrome]

I've posted this over at progarchives.com in the past, but I think I will post it here, too. How important are the philosophies and ideas in prog to you? I find more and more that I often appreciate the lyrical message more than the music, at least at first. The lyrical content often opens up the door for me to fall in love with the music! One example: Riversea's "Out of an Ancient World". This album is a masterpiece in my opinion, but the philosophy is what gripped me at first. Truly, prog is music for thinking people!

I've been thinking about this concept for a while, and so I started a Facebook page called The Prog Mind. I want it to be a community of prog lovers that appreciate the message just as much as the melody. They place emphasis on the lyrics and on the music. I feel that this will get us closer and closer to the true soul of prog: that undefinable aura that seems to embrace prog. If you feel like it, join my community at https://www.facebook.com/TheProgMind If not, share your feelings about this topic!

https://www.facebook.com/TheProgMind

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

My favorite Prog music is generally instrumental or Italian. Lyrical content in Prog music is usually laughable at best and embarrassing at worst

"mountains fall out of the sky and they stand there" <groan>

[warrplayer]

My favorite Prog music is generally instrumental or Italian. Lyrical content in Prog music is usually laughable at best and embarrassing at worst

"mountains fall out of the sky and they stand there" <groan>

She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah

Figaro, Figaro, Figaro

[Facelift]

My favorite Prog music is generally instrumental or Italian. Lyrical content in Prog music is usually laughable at best and embarrassing at worst

"mountains fall out of the sky and they stand there" <groan>

I wasn't going to be this harsh, but I'll generally concur that I don't listen to prog for the lyrics. The odd Genesis or Jethro Tull or Rush song might be interesting, lyrically, but even those bands - despite definitely being better than average lyrically, IMO - still have plenty of disappointments, too.

I think that the first wave of prog bands were generally notable for the *themes* of their lyrics and I guess I could see getting behind the spirit of that, but that's something that I tie to the era, and not necessarily more complex music in general.

[AncientChord]

The lyrical quality has always been on the back burner to me, although there have always been exceptions, such as Sinfield-era Crimson, early Genesis, Peter Hammill and as mentioned, Jethro Tull and more. I love prog musically for the spirit of adventure, and how we can "progress" the music, and take it to new places. To me, it's a mysterious, spiritual realm. It's one step beyond improvisational jazz, which was the Daddy of prog. An example of "one step beyond" for me are groups like Unit Wail. Prog has certainly gained its staples musically, but the good thing is that we are still experimenting and reaching out from those set patterns. I always ask myself, did acoustic "progressive music" exist in ancient times? Are we still just continuously reaching out from set musical patterns that were laid down thousands of years ago?

[Supersonic Scientist]

I too agree that the lyrics are the LAST thing I listen for in a good/great Prog epic. Yeah sure, I love a good "story" in the song (a few notables for me: Turn of the Century, A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers, Red Sector A, just to name a few) But I'm always drawn into the tapastry of sonic layers that 4 or 5 musicians build/construct, ebb and flow, all in an effort to get to an emotion at a deeper level. To me, THAT is PROG.

[Poisoned Youth]

Put me down as part of the "lyrics come 2nd/3rd/whatever" camp.

Also, I generally don't care for the sentiment "Prog is music for thinking people" as it perpetuates a snobby stereotype that helps give the genre and its fans a bad rap.

[Yodelgoat]

Oooh!

I agree with SLS on this! Bad lyrics have always been a turn off, but Well thought out, poetic and intelligent words move me very much. I'm pretty confident there isn't going to be a Prog song about a waitress named Delores, who took some guy home and rocked his world, then stole his wallet and left him with a half eaten rhubarb pie.

Some prog lyrics are forced, and borderline stupid, but the good ones... I am all over. I'll head over to your site when I get a chance.

[battema]

I can't say that lyrically much of "prog" has won me over. Not a big fan of the fantasy stuff, and (very IMHO here) a lot of the political/social commentary stuff comes across as a bit heavy-handed and/or trite.

Some of Hogarth's work with Marillion is quite beautiful but not really traditionally proggy in style. If we want to drop XTC in the prog bucket then yeah: Andy Patridge has a wicked tongue.

Some of the translations I read of Deus Ex Machina's work was interesting...I don't know if it was epic philosophy or not though. Just interesting.

[Progtopia]

Lots of Yes and most early KC are groaners for me, but when the lyrics serve a larger conceptual work like The Lamb, I can set aside my qualms about the floweriness and get into them from a story aspect. I tend to be a music-first guy, though.

[Rarebird]

Music first. If it was the other way round, I would never have loved Rush. With lyrics in German I might pay a bit more attention to the lyrics, if they are worthwhile.

[Facelift]

Oooh!

I agree with SLS on this! Bad lyrics have always been a turn off, but Well thought out, poetic and intelligent words move me very much. I'm pretty confident there isn't going to be a Prog song about a waitress named Delores, who took some guy home and rocked his world, then stole his wallet and left him with a half eaten rhubarb pie.

"I was down at the old Bengal, having telephoned a treat
When I saw her framed in the kitchen door.
She looked good enough to eat.
(And I mean eat.)
She was a tall thin girl.
She looked like a tall thin girl.
She said, ``Whose is this carry-out?''
My face turned chilli red.
Well, I don't know about carrying out,
But you can carry me off to bed.
(And I mean bed.)
She was a tall thin girl.
She moved like a tall thin girl.
Maybe I can fetch for it,
And maybe I can stretch for it."

Well, you're right. Ian Anderson makes no mention of anybody named Dolores or of rhubarb pie.

[Yves]

You lost me with "I posted this over at progarchives.com..."

[battema]

You lost me with "I posted this over at progarchives.com..."

That's not on topic; why aren't you on topic? Jeez....next thing you're gonna start suggesting stoner bands in Sabbath threads....

[Second Life Syndrome]

Well, it appears I'm relatively alone here. That's okay. I was just curious. I got the same reaction over at PA, too. Personally, lyrics make or break an album for me. For example, Galahad's newest album "Beyond the Gates of Euphoria" was genius musically, but sadly inconsistent on a philosophical level. That really irks me, and I can barely listen to it anymore. Now, I can forgive poorly written lyrics that still manage to get an awesome theme/story/philosophy across to the listener. Seventh Wonder comes to mind. It's the concept that is most important for me. If the lyrics are silly or meaningless, count me out.

[Scott Bails]

You must not like a lot of prog then.

[warrplayer]

Instrumental prog

[Second Life Syndrome]

I do like instrumental prog because, well, the music is the point! But, I do love a lot of different prog of many subgenres. Sometimes, I think I see profundity where others see eye-rolling lyrics. That's just me, though.

[Jerjo]

I love stuff with good lyrics but I tend to tune out the words when listening to prog because it is a path to madness.

[Sean]

I don't really look to prog for amazing lyrics so they are not the main factor in my listening enjoyment of it- the music and arrangements are. That said, they can paint a picture that detracts from the music rather than adding to it when they are bad. Sometimes it's a pretty cheesy picture they paint too, and that isn't a good thing.

[Scrotum Scissor]

I feel that this will get us closer and closer to the true soul of prog: that undefinable aura that seems to embrace prog.

There's no single "prog" to embrace or have an undefinable aura, and there never was. As for lyrics, the most scholarly reknowned writers in "prog" are names that are hardly even talked about by people in here - like Luis Alberto Spinetta (Argentina), Alan Sorrenti (Italy), Olle Thörnvall (Sweden; with Trettioåriga Kriget), Vivian Stanshall, Keith Reid and Chris Cutler (all UK) etc.

I personally never liked the lyrics of the "big 6/9/14", except for some of Palmer-James' words for KC and Minnear's for GGiant.

Christian Vander - now THERE'S a grand lyricist!

[Vic2012]

Music first for me. Even though I don't really pay attention to lyrics these days I enjoy a good singer and I'll sing along and all that. There was a time when I'd sit with the album (vinyl way back when) and read the lyrics along while listening. Those days are gone (loooong gone). Since I do about 90 percent of my listening while driving I'm obviously not reading lyrics. The printed lyrics on the CD booklet are too small anyway. Gotta admit though, lately I've been paying attention to Black Sabbath's lyrics.

Also, I generally don't care for the sentiment "Prog is music for thinking people" as it perpetuates a snobby stereotype that helps give the genre and its fans a bad rap.

Yep, thanks for mentioning that.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Christian Vander - now THERE'S a grand lyricist!

only if one is supremely educated in the grammatical subtleties of Kobaian

[Second Life Syndrome]

The idea of prog being for thinking people simply means that those people like a challenge, and that they listen to music for more than entertainment. It's more complex and requires you to think outside the box. It's not necessarily because of lyrics, etc., though I do find that prog has a much more challenging, deeper range of topics.

[Gruno]

To understand the PROG mind, I must first ask everyone -- what is PROG?