The YAMAHA CP-70 Electric Grand Piano

[iguana]

this topic is currently being discussed in the “Genesis – Duke” thread and i thought that it might justify a thread of its own.

besides all of its shortcomings – size, clumsiness, high maintenance, weird tone etc. – it is hard to imagine some band’s work or, indeed, an era of music without its peculiar sound. early GENE3I3 is already the subject of said thread, but peter gabriel was another heavy user. it is also hard to imagine some early new wave bands, especially SiMPLE MiNDS (michael macneal did some stellar stuff) and ULTRAVOX without it – when i finally saw the latter in 2010, billy currie used a YAMAHA CP, and it reproduced the eerie vibe to a tee. similarly steve hogarth with MARiLLiON, another keen employer of the CP-70 in the past.

at that time, just about everybody used it, but the CP-70s has defined the sound of artists and period pieces. i am a fan of it. anyone else? discuss.

[trurl]

I love it. It had enough of the character of a real piano while being tinny, odd and chorusy enough to have a really cool sound. I don't know but I think the piano on Video Killed The Radio Star is a real one but they eqed, compressed and chorused it to sound like a CP70. How many songs can you think of where the Yamaha and an acoustic were both used for the contrast? The main one that comes to my mind is Carrying No Cross by UK...

[Adinfinitum]

Other prominent users are The Edge on New Year's Day and I believe Jobson used it on UK Live (Rendezvous 6:02). I own one and it sounds and plays great. I usually run a Boss a chorus with it (I believe that is a mandatory requirement). I had to buy a piano tuning kit to keep it in tune. The lower octaves tend to go out of tune due to the short length and thickness of the bass strings. The problem with the bass notes is worse on the CP-80. I have my Arp Quadra sitting on top of the CP-70 to give it that Tony Banks vibe. Just like an Arp Pro-Soloist screams Gabriel Era Tony Banks, the CP-70 screams Duke era Banks.

[Nashorn]

I like the sound, because I always associate it with 80s Peter Gabriel. Peter Hammill used it, too (as you can see in the "Rockpalast"-video on youtube).

[Adinfinitum]

I think Geoff Downs plays a CP-70 in the video to Video killed the radio star.

[Squids]

It's delicious.

[Mr.Krautman]

During the early 80ies there were no decent electronic (sampled) acoustic piano emulations available. If you needed some acceptable piano sounds in your live set-up there were no other choices than the Yamaha CP70 (or his big brother, the CP80) and nearly everybody used it, not for the sound but mainly because it was convenient. The CP70 was (somewhat) portable, easy to amplify (no mics needed), fairly stable in tuning,... and much cheaper than a real acoustic grand piano. It has a very typical sound that you may like (or not) but being an electroacoustic instrument it has a very rich tone texture which blended well in a live mix. After all, YAMAHA was a piano builder too.
Strangely enough, it has nearly disappeared from the scene and is very rarely used today. Still no "Vintage Craze" for the CP70/80 but this could change with the revival of the (neo)80ies sound.

[Progatron]

Is this used on Crucible's Tall Tales? The liner notes don't specify. The reason I ask is because the keys on that album have always reminded me of Banks circa ATTWT/Curious Feeling/Duke.

[iguana]

Strangely enough, it has nearly disappeared from the scene and is very rarely used today. Still no "Vintage Craze" for the CP70/80 but this could change with the revival of the (neo)80ies sound.

brit-pop band KEANE very much built their sound around it – to the point it was even featured in their debut album’s artwork as a pictogram. t'wasn’t enough to spark a retro trend, though!

[timmy]

I've got one sitting in the other room. I run it through a Roland RE-301 to get that juicy chorused sound ala Tony Banks/Peter Gabriel. Will keep it until the day I die!

In the mid-late eighties, Yamaha blew them out for $500 a pop - you could pick up the latest MIDI version for $500 bucks - yeooow!

I remember hearing the sad story from a Yamaha rep about Yamaha destroying the pianos that weren't sold out behind the factory.

Sadness.

Long live the CP-70/CP-70B/CP=80!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sputnik]

As I said in the Duke thread, I've never been a big fan of the CP-70 sound. It always sounds slightly out of tune to me, especially in the lower register. I can see the utility of something like this in a live setting back in the days before samples, but for studio I've never preferred it. Probably my favorite use of this in a studio recording is UK's Rendezvous 6:02. The first few times I heard this track, the warbly sound really bothered me and I was turned off of the whole piece, but I guess I've gotten used it because it's probably my favorite track on that album now.

Generally, though, I think the CP-70 is one vintage keyboard that is best left to it's shelf life in the 70s/80s. Mileage on this obviously varies.

Bill

[iguana]

weird footnote: both ELP and ASiA had the CP-70 on stage at some point – however, the “real” piano stuff (eg. emerson’s concerto and downes’ solo spot with the “bolero” section) was always on a real grand piano.

[ThomasKDye]

brit-pop band KEANE very much built their sound around it

Wow, I'm a fan of Keane's first album and I never really caught that until now, but yeah, that's the same sound that Tony Banks used on "Duke," for sure.

[Jimmy Giant]

I've always loved that sound. I have a good sample set for my K2600 and also the Prominy set for the PC. Closest I'll ever get to having one.
Prog-nosticator still has a CP80 set up in his house.
Eddie V from 805 used a Kawai which sounded very similar. Difference was that the tuning was more stable, less chorusy, and it was easier move, though it didn't break in 2. Might have been something like a EP-308.
I mostly think Banks/Gabriel when I hear it.

[No Pride]

There's tons of Brazilian records with the CP-70 on 'em. I think they kept using it over there long after everybody else had abandoned that instrument.

[trurl]

My CP-70 stand-in was an old (well, new at the time) Ensoniq Mirage. Sampling a piano at 8 bits pretty much gave it the same sound I still pull the Mirage piano out now and then as a low-fi piano- it sits well in a mix.

[Paulrus]

During the early 80ies there were no decent electronic (sampled) acoustic piano emulations available. If you needed some acceptable piano sounds in your live set-up there were no other choices than the Yamaha CP70 (or his big brother, the CP80) and nearly everybody used it, not for the sound but mainly because it was convenient.

Yup. I remember back when I was an MTV junkie (early to mid 80s) these things were EVERYWHERE. You could spot one in most concert videos, the Big Festivals always had one on the stage somewhere, and even a lot of the videos where the band was lip syncing there'd be one. It was a musical fashion statement of the era, much like the Steinbergers the guitar and bass players had around their necks (blech!)

But the one person I most associate with the CP-70 is Peter Gabriel. Tony Banks is also in the Top 5.

[arabicadabra]

The stuff you learn on PE! I never realized that was the instrument on Keane's debut - love it.

[Mister Triscuits]

John Evan used the CP-70 on the late '70s Tull tours.

[Rarebird]

The stuff you learn on PE! I never realized that was the instrument on Keane's debut - love it.

I wanted to mention it as well.

My Nord Electro has a CP-70 sample, which I really like. If I use my Nord Electro for piano-sound I tend to choose that one, unless I go for a Rhodes sound. For acoustic piano's I use my sampler.

[Progbear]

Yes, apparently Keane also used an ARP Pro-DGX on Hopes and Fears, so the keyboard tonal palette is very Banks-y.

Lots of South American bands used the CP-70. Pablo “El Enterrador” and Magma for sure used that piano sound a lot. And while I was referring to Argentina’s Magma earlier, I think the much more famous French band used the CP-70 on Köhntarkösz and a couple of other albums (later trading up/down, depending on your attitude, to a Helpinstill Roadmaster 88 in the 80s).

Speaking of electroacoustic pianos, does anyone know of any acts that used the Yamaha CP-60, the extremely rare upright model?

Oh and...spelling pet peeve: the proper abbreviation for “eighties” is “80s,” not [cringe] “80ies” (which looks like “eightyies”).

-------------
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

"Siento que debemos saber para el sueño de quién brillará esta luz
o consagrar una propia estrella" --Alberto Felici

N.P.:“Let’s Talk About It”-The Mothmen/One Black Dot

[GuitarGeek]

Yeah, I understand why the CP-70 was popular at the time (and yeah, I remember seeing them all over MTV, as well). And I don't begrudge anyone for taking one on the road. But as I said in another thread, the sound to me is comparable to the acoustic/electric guitars that were available at the time, ie a reasonable solution for using such instruments in the context of an amplified music group onstage, but not good enough for studio recording.

I don't think it sounds "weird" or "special" so much it sounds like a very much stepped down version of an acoustic piano. I think that's because, like with most acoustic/electric guitars, what you're mainly hearing is the sound of the vibrating string, whereas with a conventional piano or with an unamplified acoustic guitar you're hearing that plus the resonance of the sound bouncing around inside the body of the instrument.

Having said that, I'm not sure replacing the CP-70 with a Bechstein or a Bösendorfer would necessarily improve a given recording. In fact, I suspect that it's possible in some cases, a real grand piano wouldn't sonically fit with the other sounds on some of those records. Whether that's the result of the CP-70's tinny sound (ie "The piano is kinda wimpy sounding, so let's surround it beefier guitar and synth sounds) or the other way around (ie "I just got this great sounding polyphonic synth, so I need a different piano sound when I'm playing the two of them together" or "The guitarist is using guitar tones that clash with the Steinway, so I need a tinnier piano sound").

The one thing I would say that would be better are some of those Grateful Dead shows from 77 and 78, where Keith Godchaux had swapped out the grand piano that had been used the first few years that he was in the Dead. There's some great shows where I hear the piano on some of the songs and I wish it was still the acoustic piano.

Someone mentioned the Kawai clone (I think there were several other similar instruments as well by other companies). I think the Kawai is what Tim Gorman had when he played keyboards with The Who on their 1982 tour. Somehow though, in the rough and tumble context of a band like The Who, such an instrument works better. Then again, it's been quite a few years since I've seriously sat down and watched The Who Rocks America concert video from that tour.

And it was also mentioned that ELP used a CP-70. I think that was on the Works tours, and I think Keith used it as his "honky tonk" instrument, for the things where he needed that "saloon" piano sound.

And the reason there hasn't been a CP-70 "revival" is probably two fold: 1. the things were difficult to keep in tune (at least for touring purposes anyway), and 2. even though the instrument is smaller than a real grand piano, from what I've heard, it still weighed a ton! And as others have mentioned, there's digital samplers that have that sound on them.

[Sean]

Kansas used these all over albums from Monolith up through Vinyl Conessions, and for those tours too. It's like they ditched the Rhodes live as soon as this was available.

[Stickleback]

It sounds like it was used on Jethro Tull A.

[GuitarGeek]

It sounds like it was used on Jethro Tull A.

Probably was. I believe on the tour, Eddie Jobson had a CP-70 with a synth sitting on top of (Mini-Moog, maybe?) and a CS-80. He had the CP-70 and CS-80 positioned so that he could stand facing the audience and play each instrument with one hand (kinda like Keith Emerson sometimes did back in the day).