Groups - slow progress

**PeterG** · 12-02-2012

Groups aren't really taking off are they?

Does everyone know how to find them and create them? Click on community in 2nd menu bar above.
I wonder why they aren't getting more action.
I thought we'd have been inundated by now with hundreds of groups having hundreds of fantastic discussions. NIX!

Theories anyone?

**UnephenStephen** · 12-02-2012

i tend to forget them because as far as i know there is no way to setup notifications of new posts like there was with PM's in the old PE. also being that they're not set up like threads, there is no 'View First Unread' link so you can go to the latest post. you have to scroll through the whole message list.
they tend not to stay in ones consciousness because they are not built into the various forums that we all visit. ie: you have to remember to click the Community link.

**80s were ok** · 12-02-2012

if i looked at it right, there 33 groups. Isn't that a lot?

**PeterG** · 12-02-2012

Originally Posted by 80s were ok

if i looked at it right, there 33 groups. Isn't that a lot?

No, not when so many of them are closed private groups.

**Baribrotzer** · 12-02-2012

One reason is that the moderators made the decision to not have any specific music-related groups. So the Zappa group and the avant-prog group (to name a couple I joined), along with many others, were abolished. The idea, I think, was to promote conducting that type of discussion on general threads open to the general membership, rather than off in a corner.

And I think there's a point to that. General discussion of music, with individuals weighing in who aren't necessarily fans of whatever music is being discussed and don't necessarily know all that much about it, can be far more fruitful and more interesting than small circles preaching among the converted. And perhaps fissioning over internal squabbles, such as whether a tube power amp is necessary to get the "true vinyl experience" or not.

To give an example: I'm not likely to join a Dream Theater group, and Thomas (Yanks) is not likely to join an avant-fans group. But I might weigh on a general DT thread, if only to praise their professionalism, musicianship, work ethic, and strength as a live act while reiterating that their material has never done much for me. Thomas might weight in on a general avant thread, if only to say - as I believe he has in the past - that he doesn't understand what anybody hears in, say, Present or Thinking Plague, or why those who do profess to enjoy such music. And either of those could lead to further discussions of what we listen for, and why we listen for that, and so forth, and so on.

**PeterG** · 12-02-2012

So John what you're basically suggesting, correct me if I'm wrong, is that members on PE are generally unwilling to discuss anything other than music in a specific subject group e.g. Religion, and as such any groups that are not music groups are doomed to failure?

**Baribrotzer** · 12-02-2012

Originally Posted by PeterG

So John what you're basically suggesting, correct me if I'm wrong, is that members on PE are generally unwilling to discuss anything other than music in a specific subject group e.g. Religion, and as such any groups that are not music groups are doomed to failure?

No, that's not what I meant. There are plenty of non-music groups that are quite active - I'm in one of the busier ones.

I was trying to say that I think the moderators wanted most music discussion - which is, after all, the primary purpose of this board - to be done in the public threads. So, to that end, they shut down the music groups, most of which were devoted to single artist or genre. Otherwise, I would guess, they saw PE splitting into dozens of mini-boards - in which case a Zappa fan and a Porcupine Tree fan, say, might each wind up doing most of their posting in their respective groups, and might as well not even belong to the same board. And while I can't speak for Sean, I suspect that he wanted and wants PE to be as inclusive as possible, with ample opportunity for cross-pollination of ideas, and that means having most music discussion in public.

**R. Totale III** · 12-02-2012

It's also a PITA that as far as I can see there's no "Go to First Unread" button on Groups, so you have to try to figure out where you were.

**polmico** · 12-02-2012

I dislike the groups. I never had a problem with PMs on the old PE because they were set up in the same way as the regular discussions. They were (as others have already mentioned) easier to find than the groups. It was kind of fun to set that bright yellow "private messages" button at the top of the screen. Given that we have so many different forums here, I don't see a reason to continue with the groups and would just as soon do away with them.

**NogbadTheBad** · 12-02-2012

Originally Posted by UnephenStephen

i tend to forget them because as far as i know there is no way to setup notifications of new posts like there was with PM's in the old PE. also being that they're not set up like threads, there is no 'View First Unread' link so you can go to the latest post. you have to scroll through the whole message list.
they tend not to stay in ones consciousness because they are not built into the various forums that we all visit. ie: you have to remember to click the Community link.

You can set up subscriptions on Groups, I go to Settings first and if there are any new posts in a Group I subscribe to then the Group Title is in bold. There is also a "go to first unread post" button but it isn't as reliable as in threads.

**Scott Bails** · 12-02-2012

Originally Posted by R. Totale III

It's also a PITA that as far as I can see there's no "Go to First Unread" button on Groups, so you have to try to figure out where you were.

Untrue.

If you're on the "New Posts" page, there's a "New Group Messages" button. Click on that, and you get that little blue button for the first unread post.

Part of the issue with fewer groups here is that we now have a 3rd (or more) forum. So, many of the things that we talked about in PMs - food, drink, sports, etc. - are now allowed on the main forum. The need for private groups isn't as great.

And, as polmico mentions, there's still issues with groups in that - for whatever reason - they don't behave like the main forum. I can't imagine why they would have set it up that way. I hope Duncan can convince the powers-that-be to change that in future editions of the software.

**Duncan Glenday** · 12-02-2012

Originally Posted by UnephenStephen

...there is no 'View First Unread' link so you can go to the latest post. you have to scroll through the whole message list...

Wrong

Originally Posted by R. Totale III

It's also a PITA that as far as I can see there's no "Go to First Unread" button on Groups, so you have to try to figure out where you were.

Wrong

Click on the group.

If you see this icon

to the left of a thread's title, it means there are new posts that yoy have not read. Click it. it will take you straight to the first unread post, whatever page it's on.

PEv2 could not do that.

**Duncan Glenday** · 12-02-2012

Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday

Wrong

Wrong

Click on the group.

If you see this icon

to the left of a thread's title, it means there are new posts that yoy have not read. Click it. it will take you straight to the first unread post, whatever page it's on.

PEv2 could not do that.

I've just changed it.

If there are new posts, you will now see this icon:

- and if it looks familiar, that's because it is the same image we used on PEv2.

The system already provided an icon, and the thread title was bold if there were new posts, but people might now understand it better...

Click on the "YES!" icon to go to the first new post.

**Trane** · 12-03-2012

Originally Posted by UnephenStephen

i tend to forget them because as far as i know there is no way to setup notifications of new posts like there was with PM's in the old PE. also being that they're not set up like threads, there is no 'View First Unread' link so you can go to the latest post. you have to scroll through the whole message list.
they tend not to stay in ones consciousness because they are not built into the various forums that we all visit. ie: you have to remember to click the Community link.

I must say that Steph's remarks are quite good...

I have a few gripes
1- knowing of a group thread's existence and not being able to open it (because it's private or invitation-only) to check out what it's about (wTF is NSFW, anyway??

) like the Anarcho-Commie group, then I might wish to even know it exists... I don't want to plea someone to include me only to exit a couple days after because it's not my thing)
2- indeed no notifications (at least none like in 2.0 >> but that could be irksome in case of many new entries)... have to check it out and find out where you're at... on top of it, clicking on the link to the individual convesations inside a group only leads you to the first post/page,, not a top the last one page
3- While I support the music groups suppression, in order to keep it on the main forum, if some really insist on having a DT or TFK group to discuss the colours of the drummer's socks, I don't mind...

Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday

Wrong

Wrong

Click on the group.

If you see this icon

to the left of a thread's title, it means there are new posts that yoy have not read. Click it. it will take you straight to the first unread post, whatever page it's on.

PEv2 could not do that.

Mmmhhh!!!... I tried this last week and it didn't work...

**Vic2012** · 12-03-2012

The "groups" thing seems to have caused a bit of controversy with some members. Personally, I don't get the appeal of private groups/clubs (but I have an idea why they're so popular among some members). What is the point of having a public board in the first place if everyone just joins private groups? To each their own. I think the board works fine the way it is. It's not perfect, it can't be perfect, but it works well enough (for me anyway). That's my 2 cents worth.

**JKL2000** · 12-03-2012

Who can invite you to join a private group? Any member? I don't see where it says if there's a moderator for each group.

**NogbadTheBad** · 12-03-2012

Whoever created the group has to invite you, any particular ones you want in on?

**Trane** · 12-03-2012

Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad

Whoever created the group has to invite you, any particular ones you want in on?

Nope, not particularly, though the two I mentionned are intriguing

unless NSFW is neo-symph-fucking-weenie... then I'd better not know too much about it :P

**Duncan Glenday** · 12-03-2012

From another thread:

Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday

We had people complaining that:
1) They did not know whether a thread or a group had new posts, and
2). They could not go to the first unread post in a group or a thread.

In fact: if the

icon exists, and if the thread title is in bold, there are unread messages. Clicking the icon to the left of the thread's title took you to the first unread post - whatever page it was on.

But to make it a bit easier to understand, I replaced the

icon with the same graphic we used in PEv2 :

.

But in a typical damned-if-you-do / damned-if-you-don't scenario, that also has its critics.

I am now changing it back to the original PEv3 icon

- and it's staying that way.